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Zeus cti

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How does this game mode work with Zeus? What is the role of Zeus in CTI? Is it anything like BECTI?

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I Imagine he could be controlling the IND side that starts with all the towns, or if its domi like controls the opfor

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To answer the OP, in the Editor there is the ability to place Faction specific Zeus. So the Commander could very much be a Zeus player controlling the AI directly for his faction or even a player who swaps between their normal ground role and Zeus. You'd just need a system to control the flow of spawning troops/reinforcements (which CTI has)

I'd like to add that we have to appreciate how much of a game changer Zeus really is in the online FPS space. It's not a new idea but having something like this be a core part of the engine that will be rolled out to all Arma 3 players in the future really changes the dynamic of what we can expect from MP Arma.

IMO we shouldn't be asking can we plug Zeus into CTI but rather what new game modes can be built using this technology.

I've already implemented a small test mission that is meant to be fully GM'd that has some 3-faction fighting with some scripted sandbox elements in it (e.g. Air Taxi). I feel that Zeus gives us the ability to gut a lot of the scripting overhead that's always dogged MP performance in ARMA. I'll be using this test mission to help solidify some design ideas before building a more complete "Zeus Game" in the future.

I'm looking for design testers, again it's at a very rudimentary prototype stage. It's people who've played Domination/CTI etc. and want to help me build something new. So if you have the Dev branch and happy to commit an evening or Saturday morning (PST) a week then PM me.

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I ve taken a quick look around Zeus yesterday and I think that the only use this can have on becti is to only operate resistance and occupation spawned units.

For example when some resitance spawned on a town and not destroyed by any players then zeus can make them try to cap another town or something like this.

I also think that Zeus is not designed to operate into a heavily scripted dynamic missions like Becti where the best way to interact with those is by putting more scripts/time/testing in it.

The kind of mission that will be developed in Zeus migth be ones where many script are there to create user action (action/logistics/...) but with none tring to give a dynamic to the game. The more dynamics are scripted inside a mission, the more a zeus gamemaster migth wreck it.

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I was wondering more about BIS's Zeus CTI. If you read the missions available with the DLC one of them is ZEUS CTI, I was wondering what BIS has done with it.

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Time will tell I am guessing, but I also use you thread to reply to a classic question i get at these times, hope you dont mind :)

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I also spent some time over the past coupla' days getting Zeus to work with a version of BECTI... I was able to get each player and also player/AI created units to show up under Zeus. Newly created groups/units would just automatically enlist in Zeus by me adding a couple calls to the addCuratorEditableObjects [] method at the right places inside the mission.. Here are some of my comments...

1) Zeus = CTI absolutely makes sense. The Zeus role and Commander role in CTI are very similar. The commander would be his team's Game Master/Admin, but also with Zeus players can also be given limited power to edit units etc. The Commander creates Zeus units and places them under the charge of players as rewards for side missions, following orders, hero play, etc... you don't have to allow the players access to every power in Zeus, only the ones that make sense.

2) The way the resource system works in CTI with cost of items/upgrades, etc. also make sense. Zeus comes with modules that would make it really easy to assign Zeus combat points to players in the same way players earn cash to buy things from factories. items that players buy would reduce their cash, and also spend their Zeus points.

3) Zeus points give the team the ability to bring in support right away within reason based on cost and availability. This can make it easy to generate for example a quick transport or other service.

4) Zeus UI makes a great tool for putting AI on the right path and makes it easy to free up that one pesky truck always in the way of some intersection...

5) if I was building BECTI from scratch today... I'd probably start with Zeus because much of the framework for BECTI that makes the game work (dynamic objectives, PVP and PVE at same time, RTS/FPS style gameplay, teamwork, player roles, realistic player driven scenarios, etc...), can all be done with Zeus. The real power of BECTI anyway in my opinion is the AI Commander/Take Towns, etc...logic in the FSMs...

Downside:

1) Would need to implement Fog of War to prevent the Zeus role from being an overpowered Spy Tool/Satellite Mode ...

2) The Zeus UI for commanding is still too weak to make it realistic choice to completely replace BECTI system for managing teams and orders. The Zeus UI would need to expose at a minimum everything that High Command does... (EDIT: There is a work around for this... I was able to add a HC module and a Zeus module to the same mission. Zeus UI to assign waypoints, etc, and then bring up HC to refine the type, settings... Now I can do a CYCLE on patrol route ... :)

3) There should also be controls for things like Attach Zeus groups to existing groups, or attach Zeus Unit to exist group... etc... basically an attach/detach module... would be even better to have a Zeus window to build complex chain of command structures (with automatic radio channels!) very quickly!!

Edited by EEM

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I also spent some time over the past coupla' days getting Zeus to work with a version of BECTI... I was able to get each player and also player/AI created units to show up under Zeus. Newly created groups/units would just automatically enlist in Zeus by me adding a couple calls to the addCuratorEditableObjects [] method at the right places inside the mission.. Here are some of my comments...

1) Zeus = CTI absolutely makes sense. The Zeus role and Commander role in CTI are very similar. The commander would be his team's Game Master/Admin, but also with Zeus players can also be given limited power to edit units etc. The Commander creates Zeus units and places them under the charge of players as rewards for side missions, following orders, hero play, etc... you don't have to allow the players access to every power in Zeus, only the ones that make sense.

I do agree that the roles have some similarities but I have a problem with the POV used to play those roles. I thinks that a commander is not an omnipotent player (even if restricted to his side), but he has to do with incomplete or lack of information , need to calls for sitreps and make decisions based on what he has. using the zeus interface to a commander would provide to much information where to send his players, what type of units they are facing and so on.

2) The way the resource system works in CTI with cost of items/upgrades, etc. also make sense. Zeus comes with modules that would make it really easy to assign Zeus combat points to players in the same way players earn cash to buy things from factories. items that players buy would reduce their cash, and also spend their Zeus points.

I am thinking that all this zeus thing migth break the immersion of players if they are able to use it even one bit.

The real power of BECTI anyway in my opinion is the AI Commander/Take Towns, etc...logic in the FSMs...

That is for me the main problem. Because if zeus is able to interract with the dynamic of such an heavilly scripted mission, is most probable that there will be some borders effect of the interraction between the scripts and zeus. For example, if some script (or fsm) is responsible for town patrol then when zeus is trying to change the order, what happens in the FSM? should it be terminated, putted on standy ?

So each possible action with zeus must be precisely planned and all possible interferences with the mission scripts should be checked (what are the script associated with the units? what are its event handlers?).

Downside:

1) Would need to implement Fog of War to prevent the Zeus role from being an overpowered Spy Tool/Satellite Mode ...

2) The Zeus UI for commanding is still too weak to make it realistic choice to completely replace BECTI system for managing teams and orders. The Zeus UI would need to expose at a minimum everything that High Command does... (EDIT: There is a work around for this... I was able to add a HC module and a Zeus module to the same mission. Zeus UI to assign waypoints, etc, and then bring up HC to refine the type, settings... Now I can do a CYCLE on patrol route ... :)

3) There should also be controls for things like Attach Zeus groups to existing groups, or attach Zeus Unit to exist group... etc... basically an attach/detach module... would be even better to have a Zeus window to build complex chain of command structures (with automatic radio channels!) very quickly!!

I ve never used modules, I have some problem using those since I dont know whats inside. So i wont be able to comment that part :)

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I do agree that the roles have some similarities but I have a problem with the POV used to play those roles. I thinks that a commander is not an omnipotent player (even if restricted to his side), but he has to do with incomplete or lack of information , need to calls for sitreps and make decisions based on what he has. using the zeus interface to a commander would provide to much information where to send his players, what type of units they are facing and so on.

That makes a ton of sense! How I tried to tackle this...place two different Zeus modules on the mission and assigned a blue and a red player slot to each one. That keeps each side from knowing what the other has in it's force composition and location. At that point, I don't think Zeus is providing much more in terms of commander's battlefield or player's situational awareness than what we can already do with most of the CTI/Warfare versions. I can already see a complete strategic view of my forces with High Command which allows me to set waypoints and assign orders at a strategic level. I can also toggle my FPS view and zoom out and control individual units assigned to me in 3D using Tactical View. The UI for both though are way clunky and we have to sift through two modes, and like 4 menus to get them to do anything right or face a certain direction or get into a certain mode or stance...anyway, IMO, the Zeus UI is way better than High Command or the current 3D we get with Tactical View (press . on [NUM] pad when you have any AI in your group).

I am thinking that all this zeus thing migth break the immersion of players if they are able to use it even one bit.

That's also a great point! Although, I'm thinking this will depend on the mission implementer. For example, instead of allowing players to use the Zeus "omnipotent" UI to just plop units, the factories should be producing the Zeus units while the UI is used just to manage and edit them. Some Zeus items may never need to be made available in CTI/Warfare which can also help maintain the current feel of the mission. For example, continue to use mission's current Fire Support system and disable Zeus modules for things like mortars etc...

The other piece of this point I think though is players will do things that just aren't part of doctrine. But we should just have to vote a new commander to kick someone from the role who is doing a sucky job at it or just plain griefing... I've seen a few other players with this same concern and one that shouldn't be lost on mission makers while they try to figure out ways to integrate Zeus.

That is for me the main problem. Because if zeus is able to interract with the dynamic of such an heavilly scripted mission, is most probable that there will be some borders effect of the interraction between the scripts and zeus. For example, if some script (or fsm) is responsible for town patrol then when zeus is trying to change the order, what happens in the FSM? should it be terminated, putted on standy ?

So each possible action with zeus must be precisely planned and all possible interferences with the mission scripts should be checked (what are the script associated with the units? what are its event handlers?).

Again an excellent point! How I tried to work around that was to not let the player use the Zeus UI to create Zeus units. They still have to go through a factory. But they can edit units in the Zeus UI... which allows them to change formations, stance, and set waypoints etc....then, my commander (which is also the Zeus curator), instead of creating units in the Zeus UI, uses factories and other current mission implemented assets. I just had to make sure that when a player created unit was spit out by the factory, it was also added to Zeus and then execute a Zeus cleanup to remove them from the battlefield after a period of time after they had been neutralized. I was able to leave the FSM code untouched and they (the AI Commander and AI players...) seemed to execute without issue. Zeus objectives and tasks show up just like existing ones from taking towns etc.. so those were not effected either. They just showed up in the map with the existing tasks.

Of course I had a ton of questions too (like client/server sync of Zeus units, etc.) and it wasn't perfect... just a POC.. but it works.. :)

Edited by EEM

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I was wondering more about BIS's Zeus CTI. If you read the missions available with the DLC one of them is ZEUS CTI, I was wondering what BIS has done with it.

Link, please? I'd like to read about that or see where it's officially mentioned that BIS plans on releasing an actual CTI mission. I've searched but can't find it :-(

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If you find gave me the link. I need this too.

But I`m actually doing one like this. 

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