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Disappointed after 13 years of 'Arma'

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the game need a causal bf cod and a realism option to play - first for money and the second for the dudes with brain ^^

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Source? Or Opinion?

Someone shot this down with quotes from an ACE dev two posts down from the one you are replying to.

It's a sad state of affairs when everyone is hankering for a mod to make the game enjoyable.

ACE has some cool features that I personally would like to see included in the base game, but there are users of this very forum that prefer not to use ACE, so it is inaccurate to say that everyone is waiting for it to make the game good. Some people aren't interested in it at all.

So, BIS tries to do something different besides just a few improvements and some new islands from game to game, with mostly recycled/upgraded content like OFP->A1, A1->A2.

Instead of being interested in how it turns out, people are still acting like the only saving grace for this game will be mods, and that BIS is now EA.

This is a really a response to both sides of this argument: BIS hasn't tried anything significantly different in terms of gameplay with Arma 3. They haven't abandoned their commitment to realism or gone after the arcade shooter market, but neither has the game significantly advanced past previous iterations.

second for the dudes with brain ^^

This is a terrible opinion and you people need to get over it. You are not better than anyone else because you play a different kind of video game. I know you are half-joking, but this attitude is really pervasive on these forums and it's not cool. Seriously, this kind of elitism is going to drive new players away and the playerbase will dwindle and BIS won't be able to make any more Arma games.

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ACE has some cool features that I personally would like to see included in the base game, but there are users of this very forum that prefer not to use ACE, so it is inaccurate to say that everyone is waiting for it to make the game good. Some people aren't interested in it at all.

Right!

Speaking about in general terms we risk to involve somebody then he is not ,instead,to agree whit that opinion!

But this does not mean that this perspective (about ACE) is right now, highly desired by a large number of gamers! ...... How much?

Frankly i dont know! .... but certainly a great number of old gamers funs!

If we talking about the gamers, then follow this title, just for Wasteland mode--Altis Life mode---Day_Z mode---Zeus mode...it is obvious that they are not interested to the ACE mod...but even because they are not intrestead to the Sim-Mil,and this is it's funny because ArmA III was realize for to exploit in "that" type of game....of course!!

This is a really a response to both sides of this argument: BIS hasn't tried anything significantly different in terms of gameplay with Arma 3. They haven't abandoned their commitment to realism or gone after the arcade shooter market, but neither has the game significantly advanced past previous iterations.

About your opinion i am not agree whit you,because there so many elements then prove the contrary or the opposite,just some examples.:

Lack wind effect in ballistic way!----in A2 was acceptable! whit ACE still better!

Lack effect wound sistem by shot!---- in A2 was acceptable! whit ACE still better!

Unrealistic or exaggerated effect fatigue!---in A2 was not implemented ! But whit ACE was perfect!

Unrealistic or exaggerated shake weapon!---in A2 was not implemented! But whit ACE was perfect!

Unrealistic penetration bullets and his damage!---in A2 was acceptable! whit ACE still better!

...and go on!

I cant say then whitout that things this titles it's become arcade,no way!......but certainly they are not looking for about the simulation and or the realistic way!

I do not want to reopen old wounds but ...... make a comparison with the old edition, does not bring so many points in favor of ArmA III about SIM!

Edited by j4you

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I do not want to reopen old wounds but ...... make a comparison with the old edition, does not bring so many points in favor of ArmA III!

After installing (which is really easy and quick operation) only a few selected cool mods/additions, the Arma 3 feels already much better and more enjoyable than the previous games.

And the "gap" will only grow bigger in favor of A3.

Of course that is just my subjective view. But I'm not the only one having this view.

To get "the realism" just right is not easy, by the way. ACE was cool, but not perfect. You liked it or you didn't like it, and used it or didn't.

At least we have the option to use it or not.

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After installing (which is really easy and quick operation) only a few selected cool mods/additions, the Arma 3 feels already much better and more enjoyable than the previous games.

And the "gap" will only grow bigger in favor of A3.

Of course that is just my subjective view. But I'm not the only one having this view.

To get "the realism" just right is not easy, by the way. ACE was cool, but not perfect. You liked it or you didn't like it, and used it or didn't.

At least we have the option to use it or not.

Hi!

I didnt explain then i am just MP gamer, and i would like me too to be enjoy to transform Arma III in another game more..enjoyable,thx always to the community mods.....of course,but the problems,how you will know,it's the compatibility whit the servers,in truth not many in that sense,accordingly they are useless...if you can not use it,and ArmA III vanilla for me it's...coff!..coff!...not comment!

And here we come back again to the ACE Mod....because we dont talk about ten mods installed separately, but just one all inclusive!

If you will like it there will be servers just dedicate for ACE gamers,and in few click in Filter Server you will be ready to chose your room and fight....again!;)

About the perfection you right,ACE is not,but if i must to chose from BIS or ACE ....i prefer the second one...they are more fast to fix them issues!

Regards

Ah!....my 2 cents! :-)

Edited by j4you

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Lack wind effect in ballistic way!----in A2 was acceptable! whit ACE still better

Wind did not affect ballistics at all in Arma 2. You are thinking of ACE.

Lack effect wound sistem by shot!---- in A2 was acceptable! whit ACE still better!

The only things that Arma 2 did differently regarding wounding are that there is no armor simulation in Arma 2 and Arma 2 also had a wounding module that made it so that units would be knocked unconscious instead of dying. It wasn't particularly advanced.

Unrealistic or exaggerated effect fatigue!---in A2 was not implemented ! But whit ACE was perfect!

I'm not certain how exaggerated fatigue is in Arma 3, but the penalites in ACE were at least as high as they are in Arma 3, if not higher, since it also made players start blacking out and falling down. It was easy to incur these penalties just by taking too many boxes of ammo along with your machine gun.

Unrealistic or exaggerated shake weapon!---in A2 was not implemented! But whit ACE was perfect!

The only thing I have to say about this is that it is largely a matter of opinion.

Unrealistic penetration bullets and his damage!---in A2 was acceptable! whit ACE still better!

Bullet penetration wasn't modeled at all in Arma 2 or ACE, with the exception of the fact that ACE enabled bullets to penetrate the armor on some vehicles.

Again, Arma 3 isn't significantly more realsitc, but neither is it at all less realistic or more arcadey.

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Wind did not affect ballistics at all in Arma 2. You are thinking of ACE.

The only things that Arma 2 did differently regarding wounding are that there is no armor simulation in Arma 2 and Arma 2 also had a wounding module that made it so that units would be knocked unconscious instead of dying. It wasn't particularly advanced.

I'm not certain how exaggerated fatigue is in Arma 3, but the penalites in ACE were at least as high as they are in Arma 3, if not higher, since it also made players start blacking out and falling down. It was easy to incur these penalties just by taking too many boxes of ammo along with your machine gun.

The only thing I have to say about this is that it is largely a matter of opinion.

Bullet penetration wasn't modeled at all in Arma 2 or ACE, with the exception of the fact that ACE enabled bullets to penetrate the armor on some vehicles.

Again, Arma 3 isn't significantly more realsitc, but neither is it at all less realistic or more arcadey.

Hi!

I like to see different opinion and i havent problems to acknowledge when i am wrong,but your post it's just another way to highlights then it was just 90 % of right about my declarations,and if you feel more enjoy to overturn in your favor then that 10% it's enough to say otherwise...you win this debate!

Givme me a true obvious and will found a way to make it appear like a half falsehood!

I am very glad then you are enjoy about ArmA III, and then you can see just the positive vibrations about it....but we have different point view about this title,and whitout hard feelings,again confirm what I just said before to 90%! :-)

Regards

Edited by j4you

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This is not a very constructive thread, this game is too massive and ambitious to get it all working as it should and there is no other game/sim that has anywhere near the same size and multiple object/scenario/editing power as the 2 above posts try to refer to but failed to provide an example of.

I know this because if there was one that even came close I would be all over it. All I can say is if Star Citizen delivers even close to its claims then byebye arma =P

Arma 2 took years to where I thought it was near perfect and A3 will likely be the same...

This is not true, Soldner Secret Wars has arguable a larger scale, their (generated) map is twice the size of europe.

Still hoping for them to release the source code any day now :(

when soldner came out (2006) it was a bug ridden hellhole but i can say its really fun nowadays. If only arma went the same way polishing their game instead of sweeping the problems under the rug

Edited by defk0n_NL

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Hi!

I like to see different opinion and i havent problems to acknowledge when i am wrong,but your post it's just another way to highlights then it was just 90 % of right about my declarations,and if you feel more enjoy to overturn in your favor then that 10% it's enough to say otherwise...you win this debate!

Givme me a true obvious and will found a way to make it appear like a half falsehood!

I am very glad then you are enjoy about ArmA III, and then you can see just the positive vibrations about it....but we have different point view about this title,and whitout hard feelings,again confirm what I just said before to 90%! :-)

Regards

There might be some kind of language barrier here, but I feel like I should point out that I'm not trying to twist your words or anything. A lot of the statements you made about Arma 2 vs Arma 3 were flat out false. I think you may be confusing features that were present in ACE as being present in base Arma 2.

I also think it's relevant to point out that I am immensely disappointed in Arma 3. I think the game is massively overpriced for the state it's in. I'm upset that BIS seemingly bailed on promised features. That doesn't mean I think Arma 2 is a better game, though.

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I'm one of those people that doesn't care at all about ACE. Arma 3 vanilla is a much better and much more polished game than Arma 2 vanilla in almost every aspect. Some of the top voted issues from the feedback tracker need to be addressed by BI and I will be perfectly happy with Arma 3 without the need for any pseudo-realism mods that are in fact only engaged in window dressing without really adding anything to my gameplay experience. Arma 3 is realistic and challenging enough for me to offer an alternative to shooter games like Battlefield and adding evermore "realistic" features would eventually reach a level where I'm not playing a game that is fun anymore. If I wanted a lifelike war experience I'd go to war, not play a computer game...

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I'm one of those people that doesn't care at all about ACE. Arma 3 vanilla is a much better and much more polished game than Arma 2 vanilla in almost every aspect. Some of the top voted issues from the feedback tracker need to be addressed by BI and I will be perfectly happy with Arma 3 without the need for any pseudo-realism mods that are in fact only engaged in window dressing without really adding anything to my gameplay experience. Arma 3 is realistic and challenging enough for me to offer an alternative to shooter games like Battlefield and adding evermore "realistic" features would eventually reach a level where I'm not playing a game that is fun anymore. If I wanted a lifelike war experience I'd go to war, not play a computer game...

If you was to looking for a FPS alternative from what the market offers,like BF for example..ArmA III it's unbelived Simulator Military..just dipend whic tipology game you come from,and last, but not less important,how you play this title,es:

SP..Team vs Team....Domination....Insurgency....CLI...or better..in private servers Clan vs Clan!!

And how you saied.... Arma 3 is realistic and challenging enough for me....

If for you is enough, there isnt a reason for to be disappoint....right?..and therefore retract everything I've said....i apologize!

Ok!...Sorry! :-)

I belived then was possible to post a constructive criticism, but I see that it is not well see even in this forum (for even mind Steam forum Zoo)!

I will not more molest you again whit the mine absurd claims!.....and i will wait ACE in silence mode!

Regards

Edited by j4you

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If I take A2 vanilla and A3 vanilla side to side, I must honestly say that there is much progress under the hood with A3, but the first impression is "same old song and dance". The multitude of redundant key configs, the whole menu UI that is still awful, the odd default keys, the AI command menus, the weird way AI reacts to the player and generally moves over the map, the scroll-wheel menu, horrible horrible outdated server browser and the odd way how you cannot join a server if you do not have the exact same mods, no mod syncing or updating, no standardized distribution format for mods etc. etc. So these are all superficial things that are 1:1 the same in A2. No improvement in this area.

So then you start a mission, first thing noticeable is that moving around is quite fluid and the map looks fantastic and performance is quite decent. The weapons have a nice feel, the vehicles look and feel good when driving. The sounds are solid and believable (No more coconut clapping when you run for example). Then the different stances, what a nice feature! Then you notice that you can't swap positions while a vehicle is driving. It all makes sense! So basically once you start playing you notice all kinds of niche improvements that slowly appear depending on how you play the game and what you like to do.

All in all i'd say A3 is very candid with it's steps forwards from A2, but still needs a complete overhaul in the user experience department. UX is the place that is most visible and still looks like A2's old clothes. I'm not even going to start on ACE which is a completely different topic, but even with such "service pack" like mods, the core issues that are lacking cannot be mitigated.

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The sounds are solid and believable (No more coconut clapping when you run for example).

I burst into laughter :D Thanks.

Any chance you're referring to Monty Pyhton?

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I just re-visited the "Combined Arms" showcase today...

WOW. This mission really highlights so many ways that ARMA AI fails.

You've got it all. APCs rushing hundreds of meters ahead of infantry to be blown up in seconds. "Close Air Support" consisting of a chopper doing a single fly-by over the enemy's position and not even firing once. Infantry quietly looking around, standing up, while under fire. Or, when the area is totally clear, a bunch of soldiers haggled together, immobile, just "dancing" (cycling endlessly through standing/crouch/prone) while constantly yelling "ON THE MOVE!" "MOVING!" "COVER ME!" etc.

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As someone who played the OFP demo and rushed out on the day of release to buy it and every game since then ARMA3 makes me sad.

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I just re-visited the "Combined Arms" showcase today...

WOW. This mission really highlights so many ways that ARMA AI fails.

You've got it all. APCs rushing hundreds of meters ahead of infantry to be blown up in seconds. "Close Air Support" consisting of a chopper doing a single fly-by over the enemy's position and not even firing once. Infantry quietly looking around, standing up, while under fire. Or, when the area is totally clear, a bunch of soldiers haggled together, immobile, just "dancing" (cycling endlessly through standing/crouch/prone) while constantly yelling "ON THE MOVE!" "MOVING!" "COVER ME!" etc.

To be fair, things like armor being able to dynamically coordinate with disconnected infantry groups is a pretty difficult thing to make happen. I don't know if we will be seeing that sort of thing for quite a while, if ever, in video games.

I also think that post-combat behavior you're describing is just because the AI don't have any more waypoints. It would be cool if there was a garrison or defend position waypoint or something. Either way, I think this is more on the mission designer than the AI. Out of curiosity, though, what kind of behavior would you like to see instead?

Finally, the AI yelling "MOVING!" and "COVERING!" and stuff is, hilariously, the devs attempt to show players that the AI is improved over Arma 1. When Arma 2 was first released, a lot of people were complaining that formations were breaking down in combat, and only one or two AI were moving forward at a time. This was actually because the devs had implemented a not very good bounding overwatch routine, so most of the squad was laying prone while one or two dudes ran forward at a time. In response, BIS made the AI a lot more expressive and verbose about what they were doing, to try to make it clear to players that the AI was using those techniques and the behavior was intentional.

Personally, I think the bounding routine needs a lot of work. It doesn't seem like it takes the number of units in the squad into account, so you wind up with like ten guys laying prone while one or two guys rush forward and get wrecked by concentrated fire. They also start bounding pretty much every time they are in combat, and it's not always appropriate and can frequently lead to squads getting bogged down and massacred.

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The problems in "Combined Arms" have nothing to do with AIs, but with mission maker.

In that mission, Infantry, Armor, Helo were three different groups that could not communicated with each other in vanilla Arma3. (there are some mods fixing this)

that means infantry AIs could not "tell" armor if they saw an enemy ahead, hence the armor would always rush the next way point and shot to pieces.

The helo was another problem, it only had time to make two runs before the script called it away, which made it very useless in the fire support.

AI armor/infantry performed much better if they were under same unit, or if they were able to share information through script/mods.

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Hear, hear.

I wish someone would invest in developing a great shooter AI that any developer could use in their games similar to the Source engine or Unreal engine that a lot of developers share.

AI is the one area where most games no matter what their development costs are will usually be equally weak.

Unfortunately this issue is a lot bigger than ARMA.

Can’t ever remember thinking the AI was dumb in Halo however the enemies in Halo are very different from what you would expect of a human opponent.

The more you ask of the AI other than walking, shooting and telling his buddies where you are the worse it gets. In ARMA the AI can’t even walk in a straight line when you tell them to enter a car.

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The A.I. needs a

-

"pull your head out off your ass, i told you the fukken formation and where to go and if you don't do whut i've said i'll shoot you like your worthless friends"

-

button, and then i mostly shoot them...

:681:

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The A.I. needs a

-

"pull your head out off your ass, i told you the fukken formation and where to go and if you don't do whut i've said i'll shoot you like your worthless friends"

-

button, and then i mostly shoot them...

:681:

.......a beautiful touch of poetry never hurts!

May be a little bit vulgar but full of meaning!....LOL!

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I don't have to shoot my AI, they die fast enough from enemy bullets. Stupid suckers =)

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Well its pretty obvious that the devs and the general public/community are going separate ways and that close relationship formed in the past is pretty much over. BI seems to be more interested in doing their own thing rather then focusing on what the community is looking for or requesting. Perhaps BI thinks it can go it alone without the close relationship with its community from now on. They have definitely changed their attitude since the sucess of other projects like DayZ, which although may have generated a massive income boost i think overall its going to have a negative impact in the future. One of my friends for example contacted me and said "hey have you heard of a game called DayZ" mind you the last game he played was something like doom 3 and he had no idea of other games on the market just that word spreads fast and the sheep will follow. Anyway i think BI was brought into the mainstream quite quickly and unexpectedly with DayZ and now are a bit out of their depth no offence intended and are somewhat unsure what to do next or what path to take.

For me the overall view that BI has is that the community is no longer important anymore. :wave:

Its like out with the old (thats us), and in with the new.

Edited by Opticalsnare

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Well its pretty obvious that the devs and the general public/community are going separate ways and that close relationship formed in the past is pretty much over. BI seems to be more interested in doing their own thing rather then focusing on what the community is looking for or requesting. Perhaps BI thinks it can go it alone without the close relationship with its community from now on. They have definitely changed their attitude since the sucess of other projects like DayZ, which although may have generated a massive income boost i think overall its going to have a negative impact in the future. One of my friends for example contacted me and said "hey have you heard of a game called DayZ" mind you the last game he played was something like doom 3 and he had no idea of other games on the market just that word spreads fast and the sheep will follow. Anyway i think BI was brought into the mainstream quite quickly and unexpectedly with DayZ and now are a bit out of their depth no offence intended and are somewhat unsure what to do next or what path to take.

Its like out with the old (thats us), and in with the new.

I agree.

In my opinion Bis did a very, very, debatle choice with their "Make Arma not War Context": although there are still very talented people working for the community, a very few add on are released and anyway not at the same rate as in Arma2 or in the gold age of Opf. There is truly a lack of add-on in arma3 compared to the old ones in Arma2.

What is, really, the meaning of the € 500.000 as prize of such context?

Damn: with 1\5 of such money Bis could produce much more add-on.

As far as I have seen, not everyone now is willing to cooperate with you now, helping to solve trouble you could meet along the (hard) way in bringing to the light a new addon.

Even this points in the sense that BI can go alone without the close relationship with its community from now on, as the previous poster said.

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Well its pretty obvious that the devs and the general public/community are going separate ways and that close relationship formed in the past is pretty much over. BI seems to be more interested in doing their own thing rather then focusing on what the community is looking for or requesting. Perhaps BI thinks it can go it alone without the close relationship with its community from now on. They have definitely changed their attitude since the sucess of other projects like DayZ, which although may have generated a massive income boost i think overall its going to have a negative impact in the future. One of my friends for example contacted me and said "hey have you heard of a game called DayZ" mind you the last game he played was something like doom 3 and he had no idea of other games on the market just that word spreads fast and the sheep will follow. Anyway i think BI was brought into the mainstream quite quickly and unexpectedly with DayZ and now are a bit out of their depth no offence intended and are somewhat unsure what to do next or what path to take.

For me the overall view that BI has is that the community is no longer important anymore. :wave:

Its like out with the old (thats us), and in with the new.

One of the best post I've ever read about a nice critique!

Like a nice sniper that calculates the distance and wind, you have chosen the right words and the right issue,and you have done....One shot....one kill!

I would only add, then that gamers were devoted a certain structure of game (Sim-Mil) they are,right now, out of place in this edition!

Compliment M8!

Edited by j4you

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