[SP] Pilgrimage

[Rydygier 1302]

Guessing the restructuring of code you made fixed the issue with AIs losing track of you when you dismount an exposed vehicle?

There should be no more going incognito just because you dismounted the vehicle, as I'm using knowledge factor of assigned vehicle, if is bigger, than knowledge about the unit itself (which seems to be 0 at dismount). If/how fast AI will take hostile action when you dismount - that's another matter of vanilla AI. In my tests all was fine.

[alky_lee 276]

I managed to find a UAV terminal in the 1.8c version I'm doing at the moment and took control of the Stomper. However because of AI caching, the enemies only spawn around the player, so I had to move it in the vicinity of the player to find targets for it to engage. This is a very dangerous thing to do because, although you are controlling it, it still has a mind of it's own and will kill the player first chance it gets. Remember not to stand in front of a window of the building you are hiding in. The Stomper also seems to know where you are, even if you move it far away. When you move into town, when you check on it's location you find it's on the other side of town heading towards you. Thankfully it's "driven" by "AI", so struggles with the low stone walls in the fields until it smashes a wheel. In the end I had to just expend it's ammunition and then blow it up, to stop it getting in the way.

I am looking forward to 1.81c when I should be able to hack the Stomper and then be able to call on it's help when needed. I assume that it's not possible to spawn AI in the vicinity of the Stomper, as everything centres around the players position, even the messages about nearby patrols when controlling the Stomper.

[pvt. partz 248]

I finally found my brother after the fourth go! If I die while rounding up a vehicle is the game over, or is it over if I die while I am transporting my brother only. I know I read about the latter.

.........and this rain!!!!!!!!! LOL:pray:

[Rydygier 1302]

I am looking forward to 1.81c when I should be able to hack the Stomper and then be able to call on it's help when needed.

By 1.81 "hacking" feature you can do two things: simple reset settings of targeting algorithm, so UGV will engage only hostiles of yours, but AI-control will remain independent and active OR "disable it" by causing internal explosion of fuel/ammo/whatever. There is no option to just turn off AI and get full manual control. IMO Alex, as not IT/cybernetics specialist (that would be weird, isn't) should be able to do only what is simpliest to achieve using the few tricks, he may learn from his father in the past. From the other hand, I may add third option to only disable AI because eg somehow Alex learned backdoor password or something like that, but that obviously mean also manual firing... Still, as you mentioned:

I assume that it's not possible to spawn AI in the vicinity of the Stomper

Technically - yes. But too much not cached groups at once. It is very bad for performance (probable more than 10 FPS loss). Unless this would work only, if player is controlling given vehicle - then it is his choice: a toy or performance.

BTW is possible to control UAV/UGV of one side with control terminal of another side? IMO is not, getting BLUFOR terminal is possible only via loot boxes, means very rare (must be, as possessing B terminal reveals for you same side UGV positions, so, in fact, it is another way to find the body fast).

If I die while rounding up a vehicle is the game over, or is it over if I die while I am transporting my brother only.

Hmm? If you die, you are dead, and that's it. If you play with AI companions, at death screen you can switch to the one of them to continue, if you want, but fact is and stays - Alex is dead.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Rydygier

[Rydygier 1302]

"Dev branch" updated to 1.82c beta2:

- third "hacking UGV" option - disabling AI control;

- now also groups around controlled by player UAV/UGV are un-cached;

- minor code tweaks.

Regarding hacking - now Alex has 3 options:

1. Force self-destruction;

2. If 1 wasn't done earlier - disable AI control;

3. If 1 nor 2 wasn't done earlier - reprogram targeting algorithms.

So, if we do 3, we still can do also 1 or 2. If we do 2, we still can do 1.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Rydygier

[tortuosit 485]

Will you introduce the incognito addon to a wider audience once, and leave this thread? BTW, AGM is very interesting also for playing with your mission, it has entered release stage. http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?178253-Authentic-Gameplay-Modification - it has wind ballistics and some other authentic gameplay elements.

[Rydygier 1302]

Incognito, when well tested and if worthy of it may get own thread, why not, however I did not thought about that yet. Too early.

AGM, you say? Thanks for the info. I'll check it. For now awaiting 1.20 (and whatever this so slow downloading on my current net connection >600 MB is, Karts DLC? I have limited net here and burning my monthly limit on some Karts). With some fear. Both of last two A3 updates made things worse as for Pilgrimage, who knows, what 1.20 will break... :/

Edited May 29, 2014 by Rydygier

[tortuosit 485]

For whatever reason some AGM components (most importantly weapon resting) do not work with Pilgrimage, or my specific mod mix. But hmmm, with the same mods they work in editor...

Kart DLC and DLC for marksmen: I am not amused.

[ebarstad 18]

For whatever reason some AGM components (most importantly weapon resting) do not work with Pilgrimage, or my specific mod mix. But hmmm, with the same mods they work in editor...

Did you restart your Pilgrimage mission or resume it? If I make changes to my TPW MODs config, I noticed they won't take effect in Pilgrimage if I resume a saved game, but they'll work if I restart. Maybe the same thing is happening with AGM.

[tortuosit 485]

Did you restart your Pilgrimage mission or resume it? If I make changes to my TPW MODs config, I noticed they won't take effect in Pilgrimage if I resume a saved game, but they'll work if I restart. Maybe the same thing is happening with AGM.

Yes, thx, I have, thx. Yes, you always need to restart mission in case you: use another addon pbo, change mission pbo, change userconfig.

EDIT: AGM (or parts of it) are is broken by asr_ai3. But only in the mission. In editor, weapon resting etc. works.

---------- Post added at 20:17 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Now this makes me curious, RYD, from HackUGV.sqf:

if ((_dst - 100) > ((random 10) + (random 10) + (random 10) + (random 10))) exitWith {_tooFar = true};

random 40? :confused: Whats the reason for 4 times random 10?

Edited May 29, 2014 by tortuosit

[neofit 65]

any help or tips for find a vehicle.??

There are a lot on the map, but since you are on foot and the map is huge, it may take hours for you to find one poking randomly. The best thing imho is to use the TPW_MODS addon. Two of the features you can enable in it will give you cars. One is the civilian traffic module, so you'll see from time to time cars on the road, you can commandeer them, it's ok, it's for a good cause. The other is "parked cars", it adds some cars parked by some houses in the cities, to simulate inhabitants. Thes can be used but are more dangerous, they will depop with all contents if you go away from them for a few hundreds of meters.

---------- Post added at 20:36 ---------- Previous post was at 20:27 ----------

I am thinking of making a run this time in full hardcore mode with no loot. I've played millions of hours of Arma1-2 on veteran+ servers, without map markers, so that's nothing new. But apparently you have removed maps from the player inventory in hardcore. So Alex got a boat and a machinegun, but didn't think a map was important, and can't even find one on a tourist island where every shop, abandoned or not, should still have thousands of them? :) That's more like "tardcore mode" ;). Any way to make it hard, without making it too dumb at the same time? Was there a request to remove the map specifically? Can't that one person just throw it away when coming ashore? :)

[Rydygier 1302]

random 40? Whats the reason for 4 times random 10?

Rolling the one 40-sided "dice" is something else than rolling four 10-sided "dices". The first gives equal probablity for any possible result. The latter is cheap way to achieve quasi-gaussian distribution, where average values are most probable, while extremes most improbable. The more such fractional rolls, the bigger probablity difference between average and extreme (steeper distribution bell curve). I wanted, so the closer value is to 20, the more is probable.

---------- Post added at 23:22 ---------- Previous post was at 23:12 ----------

Was there a request to remove the map specifically?

IIRC - yes. Hardcore is made on quite specific request(s). There was even request to take maps from civilians, to make obtaining it harder (so it is done). Having no map at init and necessity of obtaining it is half (well, maybe that "lesser half") of the point of this, while orienteering and navigating without marker helpers is the other half. I do not pretend it's realistic in term of what is believeable (in fact not much really is in this scenario). Still, stranger things happens sometimes. There are many ways, Alex could reach the shore without even such basic item, especially, he was acting in hurry, without preparations. None of these ways are very probable, all possible.

Anyway, point is, it makes the gameplay a better fun for some, certain kind of players. Personally I do not use all this hardcore stuff. Too lazy.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Rydygier

[alky_lee 276]

By 1.81 "hacking" feature you can do two things: simple reset settings of targeting algorithm, so UGV will engage only hostiles of yours, but AI-control will remain independent and active OR "disable it" by causing internal explosion of fuel/ammo/whatever. There is no option to just turn off AI and get full manual control. IMO Alex, as not IT/cybernetics specialist (that would be weird, isn't) should be able to do only what is simpliest to achieve using the few tricks, he may learn from his father in the past. From the other hand, I may add third option to only disable AI because eg somehow Alex learned backdoor password or something like that, but that obviously mean also manual firing... Still, as you mentioned:

BTW is possible to control UAV/UGV of one side with control terminal of another side? IMO is not, getting BLUFOR terminal is possible only via loot boxes, means very rare (must be, as possessing B terminal reveals for you same side UGV positions, so, in fact, it is another way to find the body fast).

It would be nice to have the option to turn off autonomy, as the Stomper normally damages it's wheels if left to it's own devices. I am sure that Alex would have some tricks from his father, even if he doesn't understand how they actually work. You will only be able to control the UGV of your own side, (in this case BLUFOR), even if you had an OPFOR terminal for the Saif, you wouldn't be able to connect to it and control it.

I remembered to mark the original position of the Stomper before I moved it, but all to no avail, as Arma has updated today and I can't resume my saved mission because of incompatible versions.

[tortuosit 485]

Rolling the one 40-sided "dice" is something else than rolling four 10-sided "dices". The first gives equal probablity for any possible result. The latter is cheap way to achieve quasi-gaussian distribution, where average values are most probable, while extremes most improbable. The more such fractional rolls, the bigger probablity difference between average and extreme (steeper distribution bell curve). I wanted, so the closer value is to 20, the more is probable.

Interesting thank you. I'll have a closer look at the maths, probabilities and distribution here.

[ashencross 10]

Hello Rydygier, hope things are well. I've been playing the latest Pilgrimage update (1.82c beta2), and I bumped into a few 'issues', on both Pilgrimage and with Incognito running. Nothing major. Here they are:

Pilgrimage:

-Been seeing civilians wearing the Karts helmet. XD Quite humorous, it's like Altis turned into Daft Punk Island. I'm guessing that's the effect of the Karts DLC pumping new civilian headgear into the mix eh? I also found a guy (civilian) wearing fire drill ear protectors and walking around with a revolver. That wasn't -too- weird though. Not sure what you think of this, or if anything can be done for that matter?

-Someone pointed out the 'silliness' of Alex showing up on Altis on a boat, armed with an SMG but no other basic equipment like a map and so forth. I'm actually one of the people who enjoy starting this particular scenario on Hardcore mode, and with less items for the sake of taking on such a challenge. Finding the first map and then backtracing the location of the boat by recalling landmarks that you've been though is quite fun! However, I think there may be a point in what (I think it was Neofit?) posted. So I was thinking, what if Hardcore mode was even more hardcore (yes, again with this line of thought). What if in Hardcore you started without weapons. You'd arrive on Altis on your boat, and somehow lost everything on the way there. You'd have to find your first weapons by finding loot boxes or scavenging off soldiers killed off in their own civil war. This would be easier or harder than it sounds based on the player's settings of course (loot chance/realistic mode/or the use of Incognito mode). That way …

In Better Gear mode – you start with...better gear, including NVGs and the like.

Normal mode – you start with your usual SMG type weapon, map, watch, radio, the basics …

Hardcore mode – you start with... nothing at all.

I would totally welcome this challenge. I wonder what other usual players who play this style think?

Ok, now Incognito:

-In general terms, the upgrade you made to it the last time seems to be working just fine. I only came across one little bump – essentially, it seems “launchers†are not recognized as “weaponsâ€. I say launchers in general but I've only found one Titan launcher. It did not put “my incognito status at riskâ€, and I've walked around carrying it on my back while “being observed†with no consequence.

-And the last thing, this is something I'd request in the future, when you personally consider Incognito 'complete'. But eventually, it would be cool if the notifications could be toggled off entirely (by editing a user config file or something). Because as of now, they sort of function as a sixth sense/radar that warns me of the presence of hostile forces that I may have not noticed. Right now it's not an issue really since we are still testing it, but I just thought I'd mention it.

That's all for now man, thank you for making such an awesome scenario like Pilgrimage. Oh, and it sucks that you have to blow your monthly data on Karts :(

Cheers!

[Rydygier 1302]

It would be nice to have the option to turn off autonomy, as the Stomper normally damages it's wheels if left to it's own devices.

So you have it in the newest beta. :)

-Been seeing civilians wearing the Karts helmet. XD Quite humorous, it's like Altis turned into Daft Punk Island. I'm guessing that's the effect of the Karts DLC pumping new civilian headgear into the mix eh?

:D Just yesterday was wondering, what will be broken in Pilgrimage after this update. Seems, each update something must be necessarily broken. Kind of local tradition, I guess. Well, that's the charms of scripting for the game still under development.

I also found a guy (civilian) wearing fire drill ear protectors and walking around with a revolver.

Revolver? Hmm. Another thing from the Karts? It's this flare revolver perhaps. Well, obviously I must do something about. BIS and his ideas... Meanwhile pretend, it is a local sheriff with strange taste as for the hats. :D

Hardcore mode – you start with... nothing at all.

I would totally welcome this challenge. I wonder what other usual players who play this style think?

Yeah, I wonder too. Let's hear it... But if someone eg want to play hardcore without the loot and without the AC - he is stuck permanently without any weapon, unless he find one of these poor AI bastards, who decided to commit a suicide by falling from the height. So, I think, after all it is rather no go. There shouldn't be any combination of settings, that will break gameplay. I know, it is not the same, but you can just throw away your shitty SMG or sell it in the first loot box. For example pretending, it is broken, or just so for Alex it is unmanly and soft invading just one, single island and only 1000 AIs with a firearm. :) Or something like that.

it seems “launchers†are not recognized as “weaponsâ€.

Yes, that's the limitation - weapon must be in hands to be recognized. Perhaps I'll be able to add also check for secondary weapon slot.

But eventually, it would be cool if the notifications could be toggled off entirely (by editing a user config file or something). Because as of now, they sort of function as a sixth sense/radar that warns me of the presence of hostile forces that I may have not noticed. Right now it's not an issue really since we are still testing it, but I just thought I'd mention it.

Yes, I agree. For now these are needed for testing purposes, later we will see, how to make it customizable... Userconfig for only one settings seems a bit overcomplication. Perhaps will be possible to add switch option to the supports menu.

Oh, and it sucks that you have to blow your monthly data on Karts

Indeed. What I do not like about Arma 3, well, one of these things, is the way, updates are handled by Steam. Theoretically you can disable autoupdate (although disabling seems not working), but anyway things like Karts should be optional and only for manual download. For me - no use for these. Only troubles with Pilgrimage and substantial part of my monthly limit went to... for nothing. Or. Or such DLCs should be switchable at game load, so you can choose, if you want to load their content with the game launch.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Rydygier

[neofit 65]

In Better Gear mode – you start with...better gear, including NVGs and the like.

Normal mode – you start with your usual SMG type weapon, map, watch, radio, the basics …

Hardcore mode – you start with... nothing at all.

I would totally welcome this challenge. I wonder what other usual players who play this style think?

I cannot agree with this. At least not with the current set of starting options. Since the Loot Mode, Starting Gear, and Game Mode are linked in the same setting, Ryd will either have to add a truckload of options to add your "Naked Mode", or severely restrict the Starting Gear options for everyone else.

I for one still want a mode that is Hardcore, e.g. without any in-game markers, not even for kills, so I can orient myself on the map in a realistic way, yet I want to have the normal starting gear, because Alex doesn't have Alzheimer by definition, and the "I lost everything when my bag fell off the boat" playthrough should be an option, not an obligation. I can't play in the former Hardcore Mode by just changing the in-game difficulty settings since the mission will kindly put a marker for the boat anyway, exactly at the moment in the mission where I need to feel lost and vulnerable.

Now, since Ryd won't hear anything about not having a perfect 3 row settings window, IMHO he may unlink the 'Starting Gear' setting from the 'Game Mode'/'Loot Mode' setting, and put it in place of the 'Loot Value%' setting. I don't know if people are using this one very often, and you can achieve a similar effect by playing with the 'loot occurrence' setting too. That way we could have more 'Starting Gear' options:

Better Gear mode - you start with...better gear, including NVGs and the like.

Normal mode - you start with your usual SMG type weapon, map, watch, radio, the basics …

Hardcore mode - like Hardcore Mode used to be before the map, watch and radio were removed

Half Naked mode - you start with your SMG only

Naked mode - you start with... nothing at all.

Or, maybe easier:

Hardcore mode is like it used to be: you start with normal gear, but with restrictions on the map, etc. You spawn on the beach, pop up a sellbox from your menu and sell forever the starting gear you don't need. Done. If this option does not exist in Hardcore mode, then the game should spawn a sellbox at the beach for this very purpose. Consider this as an extended settings screen for your starting gear.

[Rydygier 1302]

Mission upgraded to 1.82c. Changelog:

- Fixed weird civilian outfits due to latest A3 update (Karts DLC);

- third "hacking UGV" option - disabling AI control;

- now also groups around controlled by player UAV/UGV are un-cached;

- new option for 3D icons setting to show only civilian sentences;

- possible intel about a stronghold location from the civilians;

- HVT map marker now also shows kind of target/target's vehicle for better recognition - useful if 3D icons are disabled.

Didn't planned so soon upgrade, but those Karts issues forced me. At least Marshal unit provided another civilian clothes as addition to so few currently available.

---------- Post added at 10:01 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------

Now, since Ryd won't hear anything about not having a perfect 3 row settings window, IMHO he may unlink the 'Starting Gear' setting from the 'Game Mode'/'Loot Mode' setting, and put it in place of the 'Loot Value%' setting. I don't know if people are using this one very often, and you can achieve a similar effect by playing with the 'loot occurrence' setting too.

No promises, but I'm considering that. Changing loot value as for gameplay isn't the same, as changing loot density, but IMO it isn't used too often (had no even single feedback about that setting), so probably no one will oppose too much, if I just hardcode loot value on default, 50% setting. Indeed - even now difficulty setting is a bit messy, and would be a lot more messy after such changes. So I can reorganize all these options + naked mode + no markers but with the map/items mode through two settings somehow.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Rydygier

[neofit 65]

No promises, but I'm considering that. Changing loot value as for gameplay isn't the same, as changing loot density, but IMO it isn't used too often (had no even single feedback about that setting), so probably no one will oppose too much, if I just hardcode loot value on default, 50% setting. Indeed - even now difficulty setting is a bit messy, and would be a lot more messy after such changes. So I can reorganize all these options + naked mode + no markers but with the map/items mode through two settings somehow.

I thought that instead you'd agree about the "sell the equipment you don't want to start with" option I described in the last paragraph. So one person wants to do a couple of playthroughs without underpants, I don't think it is worth making the settings screen even more complicated than it already is. Then how about a semi-half-naked mode with just the watch, then two-thirds-naked mode with the radio and a knife, etc.? Just have all the 'Normal Gear' at the start, throw away what you don't want to start with, and if you're afraid of being too weak and coming back for it, just sell them at the beach so there is no coming back. It happens two minutes after the settings screen, and gives way more flexibility than a couple more complicated settings would. Or, the character spawns in hardcore mode, and you automatically open a lootbox modal window before he can even move. He drops unneeded equipment into the crate (equivalent of checking or unchecking wanted starting equipment as if there was a VirtualAmmoBox window in the main Settings window), and when he closes the window it is sold forever.

Sorry, I'm just trying to find a way to have the most options with the least amount of complexity in the Settings, and the least development work.

[Rydygier 1302]

After replacing loot value with loot distribution setting (N or R) seems, that even with these new modes Difficulty setting will be simplier and less messy. I'll try in the next beta for difficulty 5 levels:

EASY - normal + better gear;

NORMAL - current default;

HARD - as normal, but no markers revealing player's positions (what you requested, note - this applies also to arty fire missions markers, we was talking about earlier, as these too reveal player position in some way, and for same reason - no hitch-hiking nor shift+click), also added reduced repairing efficiency;

VERY HARD - same, as current HARDCORE - no items, no markers, reduced repairing efficiency, no hitch-hiking...;

INSANE - HARDCORE + no gear at all. Underpants only. Deal with it... It's up to player, how he will explain this to himself (the more fancy story behind it, the more I would like to hear it). For me is an easter egg mode. :)

IMO it is cleaner, as current and in fact I like it. We'll try it soon. Of course, anyway player can create selling box on the beach and get rid of any part of gear, he wants - that's substitute for all possible "partial naked" modes.

What is no more is better gear + hardcore. Now these will be exclusive.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Rydygier

[neofit 65]

Good job, can't wait.

INSANE - HARDCORE + no gear at all. Underpants only.

Can you make it so all civilians run away from a dude walking around in his underpants? :)

the more fancy story behind it, the more I would like to hear it

I have a short one, that gives a reason to every possible starting condition: alcohol.

Hey, an idea: a RANDOM setting for starting gear, with values from max = 'better gear' and min = 'naked'. Or, in light of the setting in the previous post, 'Hardcore - Random gear', and if people want to try it 'Normal - Random gear'. No ammo? Now you understand why drinking and shooting at flying fish isn't a good idea.

[Rydygier 1302]

"Dev branch" updated to 1.83c beta1:

- "Loot value" setting replaced with "Loot distribution" setting;

- reorganized "Difficulty" setting.

Can you make it so all civilians run away from a dude walking around in his underpants?

:D Yes, I can, and I will.

RANDOM could be funny, but as sub-option, will make again mess in the Difficulty setting. How about that: if someone wants to play with randomly decimated gear, let he roll a dice/a coin for each item. What was randomized for deletion this way, goes into selling box. Gambling may be as devastating habit, as drinking alcohol. :)

---------- Post added at 12:50 ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 ----------

"Dev branch" updated to 1.83c beta2:

- Expected reactions of the locals on player (or his subordinates) walking in the underwear only.

:)

---------- Post added at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

INCOGNITO addon updated to alpha3:

- launchers carried on the back or any other weaponry using secondary slot are considered as violation of incognito (exposes incognito status to the risk).

Edited May 30, 2014 by Rydygier

[tvamvarg 0]

Read here. :)

No problem,

Thanks for the response - I thought there might be some issues changing between SP and MP :)

Good luck with your continued work on the mission, I'm really having a great time with it. Keep up the good work!

I can only agree. Fabulous work. The amount of time I've spent in Pilgrimage is now above what I've spent playing all other Arma 3.

If you'd be able to team up with someone who can make it MP (and doable in shorter sittings, maybe, or keeping some campaign data between sessions) you'd have my vote for Make Arma not War.

[Rydygier 1302]

Well, that would change my submitted entry category to MP gamemode. With my puny MP knowledge and even smaller interest it has no point. If I'll try to do something towards coop (at least an attempt is possible sooner or later) it will be done completely outside of MANW competition.

[tortuosit 485]

Rydygier, at maybe every 3rd mission restart I get this:

In such a case I need to restart immediately again, because the mission start is pretty unresponsive, full CPU load, often no sound. Maybe someone else has experienced this...

BTW, I love baaaad weather :D And the raindrops of tpw_mods, fantastic.

Have you seen, already a few letsplays of your mission on Youtube.

Edited May 30, 2014 by tortuosit