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Mission Dependency on AI == AWFUL User Experience

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Since ArmA.2 changed the AI to automatically enter combat mode when under attack, there's no real distinction between Aware and Combat modes. IMO, BIS should replace them with "Combat Ready" (ie, the current "aware" mode, maintain formation while not under threat, and act all tactical-like near enemies) and "Disengage" (do not break formation or engage enemy unless ordered to or absolutely necessary, ie, OFP's "Aware" mode). Stealth mode should be tweaked so the AI are better at keeping with their squad, and less likely to engage the enemy (especially if they don't have suppressors!)

Great suggestion. Is there really no way to suppress the automatic change to "Combat" mode when the AI comes under attack?

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I came all the way back here to say that I agree with OP. I basically stopped playing because of that experience. I have some sort of OCD, I think.

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Another unhappy player here! As much as it's good to have AI mods, I must say that AI was better in older games and got progressively worse! I played OFP, Arma2 and 3, in the latter the campaign is fells like a mocking experience, specially on the latest episodes. Mission design needs improvement as well. Specially last mission, I'm ok with perma-death but only if death comes with a valid reason, it's too buggy and badly designed to implement something like that properly.

I see how this game is more oriented towards MP and it did improve on that side, but sacrificing the SP aspect can hurt the old fan-base.

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I find the AI more than reasonable. I think they are much more responsive and fast than in Arma 2.

Take some general tips that will make your life a whole lot easier -

  • Make sure they are in the correct combat mode according to the situation. Note that if they are threatened they will keep in "Danger" mode even if you tell them otherwise, but in all other cases order them back to - "Aware" to make them more responsive and fast (that's the worst aspect in the AI in my opinion, sometimes you need them to sprint regardless of an ongoing battle, but they won't).
  • Note your AI stance. When safe, tell them to stand up. When not safe, keep them at least crouched.
  • Keep the AI in hold fire. Note that an AI that sees an enemy targeting him, or is under fire will open fire - just as in real life, don't expect a subordinate to take bullets and not fire back just because you order him to hold fire.
  • Keep the AI in oversight position - they are great in providing fire support and spot targets
  • Always try to be in a situation that you see the enemy, he doesn't see you, and you have time to target different targets to different AI units. Do that by having the AI on hold fire, select an AI and right clicking on the target you want him to fire upon. IF he sees his assigned target, he will tell you "Ready to fire". Once ordered "Fire at will" or "Fire" (to resume hold fire after the assigned target is taken out) he will open up.
  • Once engaed, avoid telling the AI to "Attack" targets (left click on target). Always prefer "Target" the targets ("right click on target"). This will make sure the AI is firing from within your formation, and not start wondering off.

Keep these in mind and I assure you a gratifying experience when handling the AI.

While I have had frustrating times waiting for AI to catch up, it's basically the same in A2 and I have no problem with it. It's simply more realistic and satisfying in the end. You can't run forever and expect your squad to maintain perfect formation. Terrain, vegetation, obstacles, enemy, behavior mode, combat mode, loadout, stance...all these will effect AI speed and following ability.

Follow these instructions to maximize A3 commanding fun and the lethality and longevity of your squad. Listen to Variable. Closely.

The only A3 mod I ever use is VTS Weapon resting. No others are needed for maximal ruthless battle fun. Things are complicated enough as it is without more damn mods. After all the AI/stance improvements in A3, I find even less need to second guess BI with mods then there was in A2. And I say this after 271 hours of SP in A3.

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I wish they'd look at simplifying them, in the mold of the Brothers in Arms series.

You could basically order them to positions and they always listened. They'd surpress the enemy (and the enemy could be suppressed) and you could use basic tactics to overcome enemy positions via flanking. I just need friendly AI that go where I tell them to go. I need them to follow me when I say follow me. I need them to fire/hold fire on my command. I need them to find cover if I say find cover.

Other then that, whatever else is so complicating the friendly AI that it rarely functions properly can be taken out for all I care.

Obviously, I'd like to have my cake and eat it too, so if you can make the above commands work flawlessly while still having all the other more complicated commands then ok. But the basics need to work first.

Excellent points. Having to micro manage the friendly AI to get them through the mission completely breaks game immersion for me. Given their tendency to blow off all their ammo within minutes (giving us/player one MORE thing to micro manage); they should have had unlimited ammo. As others have said they do; I frequently "stash" my team mates somewhere safe then lone wolf the mission--------once again breaking the immersion of "leading a team". :j:

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I completely agree with the OP, yes there are mods to fix all sorts of things but I have also been playing every release since Operation Flashpoint (Released 2001) and the AI pathfinding simply is terrible. If there are community created mods which fix these issues then why arent they actually implemented in current releases? (Is it a cost/ licensing issue?, Im just asking because it has been almost 15 years now.)

(Possible spoiler as I mentioned bits of a mission I had issues with)

I just finished the mission where you have to retrieve the "Cistern" from a base on a hilltop. Long story short, I quite liked the way the AI moved with me from cover to cover, I left 3 guys behind on overwatch and did the majority of work without issue.

The problem is when they are in combat mode, they dont rejoin the formation. (When the little red square has lines through it I think) I found that hiding from the chopper took the square away and I was able to continue and they rejoined the squad without arseing around. (The worst is when under fire and you just want them to run to you or get in your vehicle!)

I keep saying rejoin and tried changing formations and threat levels but it was so painful getting them to follow me while in that mode. THEN, I told them to rejoin, the AT guy climbed a ladder to the top of a building, turned around and fell (or jumped haha) off...I try doing missions without losing squaddies but sometimes I just give up. Prior to that, the AT guy would target a guy and then walk in the opposite direction. The drone in an earlier mission would also fly the opposite direction to where I instructed it to. (doesnt happen in the showcase mission tho)

The Kappa squad fired 3x RPGs at the iFirt and missed all 3 shots everytime I loaded (was really close too so not sure if they are trying to simulate rebel forces vs trained soldiers coz my AT guy took out a tank on a hilltop from like over 800m with RPG, not guided.)

I loaded again so I thought it was better to just do that part myself and stole some RPGs out their AT guys backpack. Then getting the AI to drive a truck without getting stuck on a building was painful but I did find it works best to change formation to single file and have them follow as opposed to clicking on the map instructing where to go.

Other than that, most of the time (especially in a chopper or jet) the next target doesnt really work. Sometimes works flawlessly, other times nothing, I tried configuring different keys and joystick buttons, testing if maybe it was the weapon I was using or range etc...the one time with the chopper I literally flew like 10ms off the ground and close to them as possible to try get the gunner to target them, i could see the whites of their eyes and the gunner was still not interested...I dont know what Im doing wrong but the 30mm should end the AI from a long distance and it should be more like a turkey shoot than a struggle to take out squads...

I really do love Arma but geez the AI makes things frustrating.

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Excellent points. Having to micro manage the friendly AI to get them through the mission completely breaks game immersion for me. Given their tendency to blow off all their ammo within minutes (giving us/player one MORE thing to micro manage); they should have had unlimited ammo. As others have said they do; I frequently "stash" my team mates somewhere safe then lone wolf the mission--------once again breaking the immersion of "leading a team". :j:

"Stashing" team mates to protect them is the ultimate immersion killer. I remember having to do that in the Harvest Red mission of A2 campaign in Chernogorsk, where mission will end if a mate is killed. I have not yet encountered such a bad situation in A3 campaign or showcases, but it has come close.

It is a good idea to place several mates in the rear on overwatch when attacking first base in Bingo Fuel. The bad thing about that night mission is that none of your mates has NVG, so they can't hit the broad side of a barn when shooting, and there's no time to laboriously order them to get NVG from dead enemy.

There is no question that the game could benefit from some advanced high-level commands available from Action menu, especially at lower difficulty settings. Like simplified commands to make your squad rearm quickly (like "Search and Rearm," where they will automatically get key equipment without micromanagement), or "Flank L/R," among others, but generally one can already accomplish these things if one is very familiar with all the Arma controls.

Sometimes you just want your mates to board the damn vehicle so you can get the hell out of there, but they are too busy returning fire. In that situation, you have to disembark and help them fend off the enemy, or just drive away and leave them, it's up to you. A true hero wouldn't just drive away, unless it was absolutely necessary to complete the mission objective.

In Arma one must "ADAPT" ;) one's tactics and commanding around your current objective and AI capabilities/behavior, and not be afraid to take some casualties to achieve the mission.

--------------

Kappa squad nailed the Ifrit with rockets about 85% of the time for me. A key for that mission is to wait until Kappa starts engaging the enemy footmobiles at the construction site before attacking yourself.

Edited by OMAC

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Im prone in a bush, pitch black at night, silenced 5.56 with NVG...take out 3 on patrol at about 20m, then some guy at like 30m pops around the corner and takes me out with one shot to the head..in any online game that would be known as hacking...the AI seems to be omniscient. Impossible any human player would heard me let alone seen me. (they didnt have NVG)

If you compare to the AI in Farcry, when you hide in a bush they literally lose you and you can hear them searching for you and hear them taunt & co-coordinating flanks etc.

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I generally adapted my tactics my sacrificing my AI team-mates. Not always, but pretty much any situation which required disengaging rapidly meant that leaving them to die they'd achieve a lot more by slowing the enemy a bit rather than the traditional behaviour of flailing about and dying anyway. Much as I love Arma the AI needs serious work.

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Im prone in a bush, pitch black at night, silenced 5.56 with NVG...take out 3 on patrol at about 20m, then some guy at like 30m pops around the corner and takes me out with one shot to the head..in any online game that would be known as hacking...the AI seems to be omniscient. Impossible any human player would heard me let alone seen me. (they didnt have NVG)

Agree that this situation is B.S. (the A.I. in Arma cheat like hell), but I should point out that a suppressor does not make a gunshot silent. Suppressed gunshots are still quite loud clicks at thirty meters, in real life. If you have access to a firearm in real life, work the slide briskly. That's pretty loud, right? A suppressed shot sounds about like that. It's at least as audible than the famous trope of a person stepping on a stick and breaking it, alerting the enemy.

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Agree that this situation is B.S. (the A.I. in Arma cheat like hell), but I should point out that a suppressor does not make a gunshot silent. Suppressed gunshots are still quite loud clicks at thirty meters, in real life. If you have access to a firearm in real life, work the slide briskly. That's pretty loud, right? A suppressed shot sounds about like that. It's at least as audible than the famous trope of a person stepping on a stick and breaking it, alerting the enemy.

However, AI is omniscient regarding other AI in its group. If you group together AI, they will know one of their squad mate died even if he's on the other side of the island. It's an old bug that renders most stealth approaches impossible unless the mission was specifically designed with ungrouped AI to workaround the problem (and by that creating a whole different range of problems).

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AI have radios to communicate with each other, like you on blufor, so grouped together if one goes down silently, the others we assume would check, thats if they are scripted/coded to do that.

Also assuming that Ai not in groups are not connected through radio would not alert other AI unless other AI see them go down.

Should really find out what they AI do according to what BIS designed then e would have a better idea of what we are seeing and can expect and maybe

change it through some scripts or mods.

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To be honest I try and avoid as much of the content as possible that involves me being grouped with AI squads, they are diabolical when it comes to doing anything relatively simple and serve no purpose what so ever on most missions other than a distraction so I can complete it solo. What I find more frustrating is on missions that require you to call squads in, they seem to do ok, but its the guys that are placed in your squad that seem to have a spaz out with most commands you give them. They do need a massive rework, or at least the missions need adjusting so you don't have to use them at all, let me call squads in or air support.

I love ARMA and have played now for years, but I also have a lot of friends who refuse to play this game based on the AI that is present in campaign missions. Not all players come to a game and jump into multi-player, and the solo campaign side of ARMA is very much the shop window for perspective players to get an idea of what is to come, this game is at its best in Multi-player, but people trying to learn the game and figure it out will use the Campaign as a training ground...

If it sucks,or becomes a bad experience by having a player constantly fight to get the AI that's there to help, actually doing what it should be, then they leave. For me it should be an absolute flawless showcase for players to experience, by giving a bad impression you are only losing paying customers, and I have seen first hand, a few of my friends refuse to buy this game based on there experience with previous AI in ARMA 2...

Now it appears that 3 is suffering the same flawed mistakes, and really should not be an issue for content that is produced as part of the base package. Its not a very good advert for the rest of the game is it.

But instead of just complaining I would like to offer some of my thoughts on fixing it...

A complete redesign of the AI UI system, Imho there is simply to much info there to get them to do a simple task, when i ask them to copy my stance, they dont, when i ask them to shoot at something they miss, and to accomplish that process requires a menu system that is not clear. The game would benefit from a more refined menu.

Only yesterday I played one of the showcase missions and after 10 mins two of my squad were out of ammo, I made one of them pick up a Kataiba on option 1, where he then proceeded to run almost 600m to a weapon before getting himself killed, I was standing next to a Kataiba, so surely the number 1 option represented the closest weapon to me, this was not the case. On replay I did the same thing, this time I followed the AI to the weapon, this time he did retrieve it, then completely refused to use it after I had actually placed the mags for the weapon in his backpack. Sorry but this is basic stuff, and is not helped by the confusing menu system that imho offers far to many options or keypress options to get them to do what you want. And there is to much on offer, I do not need to split them into teams, i do not need to see lists of potential targets that offer no relevance to what is closest or furthest away, In getting the AI to rearm, they are completely incapable of going to the closest possible point, and just randomly run off ignoring any danger.

Im sure most of you have experienced these issues, and for me it is the core to why the system does not work, if the AI can not perform simple easy tasks that are right in front of them , why is there even the option to have them scan a horizon for an enemy they can not hit, engage properly, or provide any feasible feedback to the player without getting themselves killed. Its an overly complicated system that has the player trawling through over complicated menus and commands to get the AI to the simplest thing.

Some players have provided and worked on MODS to help with the situation, and I stress the word HELP, as it does not fix it. But!! as I said earlier, a new player to the game is not going to know about the mods and is going to play the campaign and showcases as they are....If they do not work or involve the player spending 30 mins of a 15 min mission trying to get the AI to rearm, then its not a very good advert for the game itself.

I know about mods, and appreciate that ARMA is about the multi-player. I have played for years, and always offer up advise to new players if I meet them, but how many get lost based on a poor showing in the single player game ???

Edited by brucehamill

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