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sayjimwoo

Bohemia Interactive's ambitions are always set too high.

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"because FPS drops by 10 every time I fire more than one shot."

might be because of the smoke particles of the gun

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These are my sentiments as well. They're making progress by starting these new OPREPs and acknowledging that there are limitations. But now we need to see them actually working to fix these underlying issues with the engine. Good that the OPREP was on soldier protection, but I'd rather a focus (if there is any diverting of focus) be on performance first (and, more particularly, vegetation/trees, AI, and ballistics), then on the finer aspects of the simulation. Because, again, none of it matters to the player if performance isn't "optimal". AI and trees first, as at least for me, that's what causes the most performance issues. Then ballistics I assume, because FPS drops by 10 every time I fire more than one shot.

People with good systems are getting cpu bottlenecks. You have a gpu bottleneck

I've got perfectly good fps and gpu usage in an empty map (60+ fps on 5760x1080) but when there's some or alot of AI, the fps massively drops (20-30 fps)

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AI combat routines play a big role in FPS as well. I had around 50 AI in a little test mission I was doing and it ran pretty good, but as soon as combat started the FPS dropped like a rock from around 45 fps in single player down to around 4-7 fps and it was basically a slideshow.

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It gets old fast when the same bugs that were in OFP are still present. AI shooting thru trees, bushes, houses. Walking thru houses (has happened in MP for me). One thing they seemed to have fixed since Arma 2 tho is Machinegunners are no longer more accurate than a sniper. At 500m+.

I played sniper almost exclusively in Arma 2 coop and the AI that killed me 90% of the time was an MG. From 500+ metres. With 1 shot. Standing up.

I like to think of cars as an analogy. You have a car that just dies at every red light. Now, do you fix the cars engine or do you focus on bells and whistles like neon lights, rims etc? Should be quite obvious. Fix performance first, then worry about the other cosmetic stuff. Adjusting the sideview mirror will do nothing for the engine.

Quoting myself....

And before someone comes up with "yeah but they are taking care more for graphics and minor issues instead of fixing AI and other major bugs", a dev team has different people for different areas of what they develop, so this doesn't mean they aren't focusing on major issues aswell, it just means they are still working on the best and most viable solution for it.

So your car is being fixed while someone else is taking care of rims and neons and stuff

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"because FPS drops by 10 every time I fire more than one shot."

might be because of the smoke particles of the gun

Yeah, was checking that out today. That must be what that is.

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re CryEngien and StarCitizen myth https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/1751458/#Comment_1751458

The DX11 optimization is currently Brendan's pet project; and will likely continue to be for the next year or more simply due to the scale of the task.

To put it bluntly, our current performance is awful; I'm sure everyone has recognized this by now. CryEngine simply wasn't designed to do what we want in terms of rendering large numbers of heterogeneous objects.

(technical stuff) The way in which everything is built, the ships in particular, puts the number of draw calls through the roof, creating a massive CPU bottleneck for everything from lowest end to the highest end machines.

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you just made all cryengine fanboys suicide (:() ;) I bet similar thing was with rti, simulation, it looked good and maybe performed well at small scale scenarios, but for a large simulation, it simply failed.

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So, what, are you saying that nothing can be done for Arma 3's performance issues? Because, while others may be arguing for switching engines, I fail to see how their performance issues affect Arma 3's performance issues.

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So, what, are you saying that nothing can be done for Arma 3's performance issues? Because, while others may be arguing for switching engines, I fail to see how their performance issues affect Arma 3's performance issues.

Think more an implication that there is no secret ingredient,no holy grail for Teh Optimizm! when it comes to ambitous sandbox type games whether they feature a mighty state of the art engine via Cryengine with Mantle. More of a perspective check than anything else.

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If only Bis had the balls to be so open about the bottleneck and bare in mind they have the same problem and complex Ai plus shit network code plus script kiddy cheats access so its 5x as bad for A3 , we could of all scaled our own expectations back to A2 levels and just had usable water and nice clouds on top

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I guess that is why RTI failed and why you never saw any urban maps bigger than 200x200m.

Yes the Cryengine is awesome. It does what it is supposed to do very well. But it isn´t supposed to be used on large scale sandbox games. It has it´s limitations just as every other engine.

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If only Bis had the balls to be so open about the bottleneck and bare in mind they have the same problem and complex Ai plus shit network code plus script kiddy cheats access so its 5x as bad for A3 , we could of all scaled our own expectations back to A2 levels and just had usable water and nice clouds on top

You're kidding right? When has BIS ever tried to hide those problems from us? Do you read the SIT-/SPOT-/OPREPs at all?

@CryEngine

As expected. I don't get all those people who love to make statements like 'It's 2014, ofc there are plenty of other engines out there which can do the same job even better.'

Yet somehow still there isn't a SINGLE game out there, which does what Arma does.

Edited by zimms

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Think more an implication that there is no secret ingredient,no holy grail for Teh Optimizm! when it comes to ambitous sandbox type games whether they feature a mighty state of the art engine via Cryengine with Mantle. More of a perspective check than anything else.

Yeah but a good portion of us know that CryEngine for instance wouldn't suit the scope and scale of what they want for ArmA, but that doesn't mean that because for instance Chris Roberts is having problems while in development, it's somehow OK for BI to have been having problems for the past 6+ years. That's how he ends up making it sound.

It's a hot topic, it really needs to be addressed by saying either yay or nay to trying to get better multicore/parallel threading in ArmA 3 or if they're just gonna keep trying to find ways to optimize the current code and if they're going to try opening up the memory limits and constraints by either coding 64 bit binaries or at the very least loosening the limits on physical memory so that those with 4gb+ of memory on a 64 bit system can actually use closer to that. The fact it's not being addressed after so long kind of gives you the answer that BI doesn't really intend to do much other than what they can do in the interim to fix the issue, kind of like how soldier protection is an interim solution to soldier protection rather than what everyone wants. It's not satisfactory though, not after suffering from the issue's for this long and with how big of a problem they are in ArmA 3, especially if BI continues their plans of supporting ArmA 3 as a platform, it needs to actually be a stable and well performing platform.

---------- Post added at 16:28 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------

You're kidding right? When has BIS ever tried to hide those problems from us? Do you read the SIT-/SPOT-/OPREPs at all?

@CryEngine

As expected. I don't get all those people who love to make statements like 'It's 2014, ofc there are plenty of other engines out there which can do the same job even better.'

Yet somehow still there isn't a SINGLE game out there, which does what Arma does.

There are plenty of engines that do everything better and much more efficient than RV, the only thing RV has going for it is size/scale and AI and even that is done poorly with the performance issue's of both size and scale of terrains as well as the performance drain of the AI. What good is a giant island if it's unplayable and what good are 100 placed AI if they drop performance to unplayable levels? RV's supposed strength's, are actually it's greatest weaknesses. It's not a bad engine, but it's an old and unkept engine that has lots of problems even doing what it's supposed to do, and more and more it seems like the developers don't really care that it can't.

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Windies stop tossing 64bit and 4GB memory around ...

Arma2, OA, TKOH and Arma 3 are LAA aware (directly addressing 4GB on 64bit OS)

and indirectly we already utilizing N GB via filemapping API since 2008 (as addition to previous line)

http://www.bistudio.com/english/company/developers-blog/85-breaking-the-32-bit-barrier

...

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Windies stop tossing 64bit and 4GB memory around ...

Arma2, OA, TKOH and Arma 3 are LAA aware (directly addressing 4GB on 64bit OS)

and indirectly we already utilizing N GB via filemapping API since 2008 (as addition to previous line)

http://www.bistudio.com/english/company/developers-blog/85-breaking-the-32-bit-barrier

...

If you could get your programs memory footprint under 4gb without streaming 2gb+ of data from the file mapping API, I probably would. Instead you're closer to 7-8gb in any given scenario. That's not going to happen though, and quit acting like it's 64 bit or nothing, you can still have 32 bit binaries for backwards compatibility if you absolutely needed it and you could even still utilize the streaming that you built with 64 bit binaries while still giving more direct access to memory.

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You're kidding right? When has BIS ever tried to hide those problems from us? Do you read the SIT-/SPOT-/OPREPs at all?

@CryEngine

As expected. I don't get all those people who love to make statements like 'It's 2014, ofc there are plenty of other engines out there which can do the same job even better.'

Yet somehow still there isn't a SINGLE game out there, which does what Arma does.

we talking ambitions and the setting of the milestone not My Engine is better than yours

warnings do not make a measurable Aim they only beg the question can it be reached and after 12+ years and same limitations my opinion is that the Aim is set to high by both Bis and player alike .

Yet somehow still there isn't a SINGLE game out there, which does what Arma does.

Arma does nothing right now in terms of consistncey or reliablity , it only tries too we can mention 100 if not 1000 games that CAN do what they try too rteliably and with consistency , there is a big difference between what this thread is about and the Fanboy glazed eyes that some seem to place on the face when writing .

jeez

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we talking ambitions and the setting of the milestone not My Engine is better than yours

warnings do not make a measurable Aim they only beg the question can it be reached and after 12+ years and same limitations my opinion is that the Aim is set to high by both Bis and player alike .

Arma does nothing right now in terms of consistncey or reliablity , it only tries too we can mention 100 if not 1000 games that CAN do what they try too rteliably and with consistency , there is a big difference between what this thread is about and the Fanboy glazed eyes that some seem to place on the face when writing .

jeez

Wow, 2 posts in a row of pure aggression -congratulations. I'd like to see that list of thousands of games that can do what Arma does reliably and consistently

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Think more an implication that there is no secret ingredient,no holy grail for Teh Optimizm! when it comes to ambitous sandbox type games whether they feature a mighty state of the art engine via Cryengine with Mantle. More of a perspective check than anything else.

so while on the one side the argument is that BI are too small on the other RV is now state of the art? i don't think so. and not from a view point of belittling BI's achievements compared to other devs but simply comparing arma 3 to previous iterations.

i totally agree that size and the whole sandbox aspects brings problems with it but that should push even more towards multi core solutions. the empty editor is never a problem. i think it's well established that the AI is the problem or a big part of it. i think what the game would benefit from a lot is being able to run AI on a separate core. hasn't it been proven to work with the whole client and server on one PC thing?

i mean we can go all philosophical about what is the best engine and pointless shit like that. but the fact remains that arma is the game that is actually built for its tasks and that there is much room for improvement. saying "that's it and it can't be done better" is just silly. i mean i get it when people get a little butthurt about other engines being brought up especially when some morons state that simply porting arma's assets over would solve the problem. but it's kind of ignorant to think that other platforms could not achieve what arma does by rebalancing priorities.

that's why i brought up frostbite earlier. just to make the point that obviously in its current state it would not be optimal since it's built for crazy stuff like detailed destruction and sound things. so the resources and the focus of the engine is elsewhere. it's just an example so please no crying :p

wasn't there an MMO using cryengine which looked not even close as fancy as crysis? that's what i mean. distribution of detail and resources. my point is simply that size should not be an excuse unless we are talking about dimension like in outerra. i simply think it can work better than it does (in RV). that's all :)

it probably comes down to BI needing competition so people can stop pretending that arma is only possible via rocket science/magic :p

I'd like to see that list of thousands of games that can do what Arma does reliably and consistently

not what arma does. what THEY try to do. read his messy post again ;)

Edited by Bad Benson

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Wow, 2 posts in a row of pure aggression -congratulations. I'd like to see that list of thousands of games that can do what Arma does reliably and consistently

The mind boggles :)

i see your trying to add the word Agression because its specifically mentioned in a rule

Honestly you have run out of ideas that bad ?

let me help you to get me banned ;)

you are a fucking idiot and a Fanboy ;)

Now me and you both achieved our measurable Aim that is achievanle , I got banned and can leave the forum and you helped to get me banned like you wish ;)

we both winners here Now let us both go and play the campaign so far on minimum or maximum specs and see what a measurable aim is not ;)

Edited by Sealife

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Windies stop tossing 64bit and 4GB memory around ...

Arma2, OA, TKOH and Arma 3 are LAA aware (directly addressing 4GB on 64bit OS)

and indirectly we already utilizing N GB via filemapping API since 2008 (as addition to previous line)

http://www.bistudio.com/english/company/developers-blog/85-breaking-the-32-bit-barrier

...

Are you guys trying to fix your engine limitations or are you simply trying to work around them (the recent OPREP mentioned new technologies needed to fully realize proper soldier protection and such)?

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@sealife: What on earth are you on about? My secret desire to get you banned??/ I don't even know who you are...

@BadBenson: The irony is I'm called a hater on CiG forums for questioning there huge ambition and promises while so far delivering very little -including missing the 'promised' dog fighting module by years end. You want to talk about a forum filled with unbridled optimism and zero tolerance for those who question -spend a day over there :p Still I have high hopes for that game and hope they do find a workaround for Cryengines apparent unwillingness to cooperate with very large spaces. As far as allowing BI a free pass in that 'they've taken the engine as far as it will go', I don't agree that they have. I just don't see the point in calling out their manhood and such...

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Are you guys trying to fix your engine limitations or are you simply trying to work around them (the recent OPREP mentioned new technologies needed to fully realize proper soldier protection and such)?

That's the biggest confirmation we need, whether BI intends on fixing engine limitations, or constantly trying to work and optimize around them.

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:16 ----------

@sealife: What on earth are you on about? My secret desire to get you banned??/ I don't even know who you are...

@BadBenson: The irony is I'm called a hater on CiG forums for questioning there huge ambition and promises while so far delivering very little -including missing the 'promised' dog fighting module by years end. You want to talk about a forum filled with unbridled optimism and zero tolerance for those who question -spend a day over there :p Still I have high hopes for that game and hope they do find a workaround for Cryengines apparent unwillingness to cooperate with very large spaces. As far as allowing BI a free pass in that 'they've taken the engine as far as it will go', I don't agree that they have. I just don't see the point in calling out their manhood and such...

Who's calling out their manhood though? I see, once in awhile a disparaging and insulting comment, but most of the time I simply see people fed up with the same bullshit and saying that what we really need is a concrete answer and solution from BI on issue's. I'm sorry if pointing out their flaws is somehow insulting, but if that seriously insults you then you need to grow some thicker skin because otherwise you will never learn from your mistakes, and that seems to be what's happening. Don't mistake blunt honesty in critical feedback to be some veiled personal insult.

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........I just don't see the point in calling out their manhood and such...

you got me confused again. i addressed the exact content of your post i quoted and you talk about this^? if the attitude of some people bothers you that much , you should just ignore it. it's a waste of time. think of it like having a normal discussion in a crowded place where a lot of other people are talking. no need to pay attention to things that are not interesting to your own conversation (as in me addressing one post of yours). it would also help the discussion and erase the need to make points again just so they don't get turned into cheap black and white arguments a few pages later.

you also seem to be flip flopping a bit which is ok. i'm ambivalent on these things too. but let's try to stay a little balanced and clear here and not throw around random shit to get by. i know this ain't some presidential debate but i can only go by what you say and so far it's a mix of "can't be done better, where are the examples, it's just to big to run better" and "sure it could be done better".

but to be honest. as long as the goal here is to get arma where it's supposed to be, i couldn't care less which imaginary faction you belong to. for me, i see it like this. the "bad new guys" will come and go. their role is to give BI an unfiltered perspective on their game how someone "untainted" perceives it. let's be honest. it's a good thing. being protective might look more "positive" on paper but it's just another distorted perspective. the side of the spectrum doesn't really matter. at least not to me.

to BI only the reality of the actual game should matter and not how someone sugar coats it or makes it sound like it's the worst thing in the universe. their job is to improve. so of course there is a focus on flaws. it's a bit like making a feedback tracker entry saying "come on people, they are trying". sure this is just the forums and someone will always complain but the focus should be on what they are complaining about and not how.

it's like with MP. there are several people repeating that MP is fine like a prayer. still BI provide experimental dedi exes and make the admins put a "[perf]" in the server name. strange, no? what i'm trying to say is "but but they are so unreasonable" is a non argument because unreasonable people are everywhere. on all sides. it's like a plague:638:

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Who's calling out their manhood though?

If only Bis had the balls to be so open about the bottleneck and bare in mind

I'm sorry if pointing out their flaws is somehow insulting, but if that seriously insults you then you need to grow some thicker skin because otherwise you will never learn from your mistakes,

There are thousands of complaints on these forums, many of them valid, some our my own -thats why I only call out the ones that come across as juvenile and crying. Trust me, I spend all day training varsity athletes, theres nothing said here that comes close to what comes out of their mouth -as it is appropriate there and at their level. Asking for a standard of civility and crazy of me to desire, but these forums around OFP times were actually a nice place to come to. Well rounded discussion and critique are all par for the course and does make the game better, rancorous juvenile crossing the arms and waiting for a Dev fight/response is just annoying. Not really interested in further discussing the tone of forums so, carry on :)

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