See, I told you the modding community will be active

[bad benson 1733]

As for you, you're one of those guys who scares off modders...

yea i can think of at least 3 occasions.

this thread is so...

the usual suspects trying very hard to be positive taking modding for granted. yea it's all part of BI's genius masterplan FPDR. i agree that the climate is pretty negative on the forums BUT this thread is pretty pointless nonetheless. there's a reason people complain...sure it can be annoying but most of it is simply true. yea the truth hurts and poking on it is annoying. totally agree. doesn't make it untrue though.

let's just hope dayZ doesn't get stuck in its unfinished state too. would be a shame if all that resource shifting was all for nothing and none of the games would get the proper treatment.

still waiting for the campaign and seeing how true those non-promises (very clever) about "after release" are.

[Phantom Six 25]

the usual suspects trying very hard to be positive taking modding for granted. yea it's all part of BI's genius masterplan FPDR.

This.

What I find ironic are that the try-hards who are saying that modders will fix it/improve it is BIS genius masterplan is all the work of BIS all along are the guys who aren't willing to put in the effort to even attempt to mod or the very least make a decent mission. Well, anyone can create something if they want to, but it requires the effort to be pour in and time to be spent to do it. The first project may be really messy and then your skills hone as you continue to do it. People should don't ever take that for granted...

[NeuroFunker 11]

This.

What I find ironic are that the try-hards who are saying that modders will fix it/improve it is BIS genius masterplan is all the work of BIS all along are the guys who aren't willing to put in the effort to even attempt to mod or the very least make a decent mission. Well, anyone can create something if they want to, but it requires the effort to be pour in and time to be spent to do it. The first project may be really messy and then your skills hone as you continue to do it. People should don't ever take that for granted...

so, you can't enjoy arma 2 co vanilla as well?

[slatts 1978]

I don't mod because I want to fix a game. I mod simply because I like to.

Remember, BIS is only so big. The arrest of 2 key members threw development into a mess. Sure they're are times I think "BIS really?" but I can at least understand why certain things are the way they are.

[windies 11]

I don't mod because I want to fix a game. I mod simply because I like to.

Remember, BIS is only so big. The arrest of 2 key members threw development into a mess. Sure they're are times I think "BIS really?" but I can at least understand why certain things are the way they are.

How long are we going to hang on to these excuses though? There's how many other members on the team besides those 2 members who were arrested? Sure I know it kills morale, but they chose to release this game in this state, they chose to keep working on it and scrap what they did scrap and keep what they did keep. I understand totally that shit happened and problems arise, but what project doesn't have problems arise or shit happen? We excuse their lack of progress and then mask the progress of the community as the progress of BI just so we can hold them up as some sort of pariah of game development it seems like. It's disingenuous at best to the community and it sends a terrible message to BI that the community will happily clean up their problems, because that's exactly what certain members of this community sit and placate over and over and over again.

My concern is the future and how we help shape it through our actions and through our perceptions and honestly what we tolerate and don't tolerate. If we sit here and pat BI on the back for a bad release and using the community to clean up their mess, that's all we can look forward to in the future as well. There's a difference between understanding and outright condoning things that happen.

[bad benson 1733]

I don't mod because I want to fix a game. I mod simply because I like to.

Remember, BIS is only so big. The arrest of 2 key members threw development into a mess. Sure they're are times I think "BIS really?" but I can at least understand why certain things are the way they are.

i think most modders have a different motivation. i agree. but you'll have to admit that arma 3 had an outstanding amount of "fix-addons" already in alpha. and i don't mean config fixes but adding features that people simply thought they would finally get or just expected as part of the whole concept evolving. action menu, weapon changing (and other animation related things), weapon resting, terrain fixes just to name a few.

i think the reason for that is that after the 4th installment people (especially modders) just expected something new. arma 3 isn't worse than arma 2/1 or ofp. it's better in every technical way (with some exceptions). it simply is way too similar. you can't experience anything you couldn't already experience in ofp. the AI is very similar (eventhough greatly improved in what it does) and the gameplay offers nothing new. i know you can dive but they pretty much shot themselves in their own foot by dropping the ability to attach explosives to vehicles.

i agree on "BIS is only so big" but for other reasons. one reason actually. dayZ. i'm not a dayZ hater or trying to flame bait against it. infact i hop it really does well and becomes a lot more than it currently is. but it's pretty obvious that it had a waaaay bigger impact than the arrest of Martin and Ivan. people seem to forget that those two are mainly (probably exclusively) terrain designers. and to me Altis is one of the more elaborate and finished parts of arma 3. none of these both is a script coder or even engine coder. that's the reason they were in greece in the first place. to get fotos and data for Altis.

[[aps]gnat 28]

More guides, mlods, sample configs and information for modding and we might get moving a lot faster and don't forget the new tools too.

YES!

.... and everything else in this thread is little more than noise, typically coming from those wouldnt know the first thing about moding ArmA

[das attorney 857]

i think most modders have a different motivation. i agree. but you'll have to admit that arma 3 had an outstanding amount of "fix-addons" already in alpha. and i don't mean config fixes but adding features that people simply thought they would finally get or just expected as part of the whole concept evolving. action menu, weapon changing (and other animation related things), weapon resting, terrain fixes just to name a few.

i think the reason for that is that after the 4th installment people (especially modders) just expected something new. arma 3 isn't worse than arma 2/1 or ofp. it's better in every technical way (with some exceptions). it simply is way too similar. you can't experience anything you couldn't already experience in ofp. the AI is very similar (eventhough greatly improved in what it does) and the gameplay offers nothing new. i know you can dive but they pretty much shot themselves in their own foot by dropping the ability to attach explosives to vehicles.

i agree on "BIS is only so big" but for other reasons. one reason actually. dayZ. i'm not a dayZ hater or trying to flame bait against it. infact i hop it really does well and becomes a lot more than it currently is. but it's pretty obvious that it had a waaaay bigger impact than the arrest of Martin and Ivan. people seem to forget that those two are mainly (probably exclusively) terrain designers. and to me Altis is one of the more elaborate and finished parts of arma 3. none of these both is a script coder or even engine coder. that's the reason they were in greece in the first place. to get fotos and data for Altis.

Hi mate, agree with a lot of what you said there. The underwater element of the game is so underdeveloped, it's not worth bothering with; which is a shame as there is much that could be achieved. Divers won't move or attack properly in combat awareness mode and the underwater peeking bug that still isn't fixed ruin any chance of meaningful gameplay in the new environment. As you say as well, the inability to do basic underwater stuff like place explosives is a missed opportunity.

I don't normally chime in on these threads as there's not much to say that isn't just opinions imo. What I can allude to though, is that trying to mod this game/develop game-modes is a negative experience currently (for me at least).

How my normal work flow goes at the moment is this:

1 - Choose area of mod to work on.

2 - Work on it until I find game bug/limitation that halts what I'm doing.

3 - Decide whether to work around bug/limitation , try and fix bug/limitation , or move onto something else

Inevitably, if I try and script around the bug, then BIS fix it sooner or later so that time was wasted. If I move on, then I'm not finishing things and everything is in limbo. I've only got so much time in the world and it feels wasted if I cannot achieve anything meaningful.

It would be a lot easier for modders and mission-makers if they had some sort of idea what BIS intends to do with the game on a longish term basis. I feel so sorry for some modders who work on something feverishly and then BIS unexpectedly does the same thing and their work is sidelined. Maybe they are still pleased that they could code what they did, but given the choice, they may have opted to do something else.

Anyway, I shouldn't try and speak for others, but I sincerely hope they do share some of their plans with community (and follow through with them) so modders/mission-makers could have a bit more direction.

[chops 111]

I wouldn't buy into any argument about BIS's "limited resources", seeing as they've got a spare 500k euro to throw at a modding competition.

Besides, I'm a paying customer, not a school teacher looking to forgive a student because "the Greek justice system ate my homework". When I pay for a product, I expect it to do what it says on the box, no excuses.

[NeuroFunker 11]

I wouldn't buy into any argument about BIS's "limited resources", seeing as they've got a spare 500k euro to throw at a modding competition.

Besides, I'm a paying customer, not a school teacher looking to forgive a student because "the Greek justice system ate my homework". When I pay for a product, I expect it to do what it says on the box, no excuses.

i'm curious, how people like you, were reacting, when arma 2 was released? Do you remember that day? At what state the game came out?

[PuFu 4591]

Gnat;2591653']YES!

.... and everything else in this thread is little more than noise' date=' typically coming from those wouldnt know the first thing about moding ArmA[/quote']

Nothing more to say except this^^

[StrongHarm 13]

You have to admit that Arma3 is an amazing product, regardless of how angry or jaded you may be.

Louis CK talks about you people:

Everythings Amazing & Nobodys Happy

[tinemem 11]

modders need to stay humble and not flatter themselves. the main reason being that they shouldn't give bis the impression that they can fix everything, because they can't.

[rehtus777 10]

Sorry for being gone so long.... I had business to attend to and then I received a Galaxy Note 3 for New Years and it has been keeping me busy.... the Note 3 is just incredible.

Anyway.....

I've read all the threads and you must keep in mind that I did put a ":cool:" in the title of the original thread...... I have no animosity, only regret for a lousy forum title to a thread. I guess the words "See, I told you so" comes off as arrogant, but that wasn't my intention. Sorry about that.

Let me explain how I feel about the final package (ArmA 3) and where we are at today as it pertains to ArmA 3: I was turned-on to this game back in 2010 by a friend while playing Battlefield Bad Company on-line. We were discussing how the tanks in BFBC never run out of ammo and I said, "That's kind of hokie and not very realistic." My friend then said, "Have you ever heard of ArmA?" I replied, "No, what is an 'ArmA'?" He then told me to google it and research the official website. He also told me to watch video's of the game-play on youtube and he then said, "Those tanks don't have an unlimited supply of shells." I did my research at their website and watched many of the video's on line....watching an A-10 take out enemy troops on-line while two guys cheered and yelled just made my day..... I was immediately hooked. This is what I had been looking for in a FPS since the days of "Doom." :p

I then went out and bought a good gaming computer and downloaded ArmA 2. My first memories are of Chernarus and driving around the mountains in a Humvee during the beginning of the campaign and I was totally blown away at the 3D scenery and the freedom of game-play. Over the next few months, I started to dabble around with the Editor and downloading mods. The game went from being really great to incredible (especially with ACE 2). I said to myself, "Wow, I can make hundreds of scenarios with this powerful editor while using all these mods." I started to download Scenario's from the community (One of my favorite Scenario's was "All Along the Watchtower"). I can remember the first scenario I ever played - I had to run about 500 meters to an open field full of enemy troops on patrol at night and lase a bridge...... call in an airstrike and then watch the A-10 bomb the snot out of the bridge....then you had to run for your life to make it to safety (I believe this was an old OF scenario made for ArmA 2). After lasing the bridge, the Opfor knew where I was and then the race was on to get back to the LZ. What an adrenalin rush.

I then started to play in the Muiltiplayer Environment and this was a lot of fun as well. But I mainly focused on the Single-Player stuff and the editor. After playing ArmA 2 for about a year, I googled ArmA 3 for the fun of it and the "Survive, Adapt, Win" commercial popped up - I was once again "blown away." After Gamescom 2011, Cynical Brit put an ArmA 3 Video on youtube and I was totally impressed with what I was seeing. Video after video trickled out with ArmA 3 scenery and game-play...... Jay Crowe was usually the one showing off the ArmA 3 showcases. With the new PhysX and the dynamic lighting, I was in shock to see how sweet the game looked..... I set my expectations very High for ArmA 3. Then, after a long delay for the release, the Alpha came out in March of 2013. The alpha met all my expectations for the game and then some.... and it was only alpha. As I look back today at all those videos and how my expectations were set so high, I must say that BIS (and the modding community) have exceeded my expectations two fold and I couldn't be more pleased.

That is how I see ArmA 3. I played ArmA 2 for 2 1/2 years > I watched all the ArmA 3 videos before the alpha > Expectations are very high (I wondered....."Were these video's just hype and a marketing ploy?") > Alpha is released (BIS delivers on the hype) > Game goes Gold in September (BIS keeps polishing the game - released the 1st part of the Campaign - which was pretty good) > and then the modding community takes it to another level and we are only 4 months into the game since "Gold." I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but ArmA 3 / BIS has gone above and beyond my expectations for this game.

I, for one, thank BIS and all the modder's for such fine work on this extraordinary game. And once again..... sorry if I caused a stir.... I don't mean to be a King mixer.

Edit: Adding youtube video of ArmA 2 'type' video that got me hooked. Ya gotta love it. Go to the 55 second mark and enjoy the carnage from an A-10.

Edited January 4, 2014 by rehtus777
spelling error + edit

[denco 16]

modders need to stay humble and not flatter themselves. the main reason being that they shouldn't give bis the impression that they can fix everything, because they can't.

Its modders who are keeping games like Arma, Total War etc... games alive, so please show some respect. With arma particularity modders are developing and improving arma technology a lot and for free.

I agree with what the OP has said, the modders have already brought this game to the next level and I cant wait to see what is in store for us in the next few years, from them and BI ( hoping any good expansion will come out which will elevate this technology even further ( maybe something like a dynamic snow etc )).

Edited January 4, 2014 by Denco

[[aps]gnat 28]

modders need to stay humble and not flatter themselves. the main reason being that they shouldn't give bis the impression that they can fix everything, because they can't.

You my friend are clearly not going to be in these forums very long ...... ALL your posts in the last two days point to this. Goodbye.

[rehtus777 10]

Gnat;2591851']You my friend are clearly not going to be in these forums very long ...... ALL your posts in the last two days point to this. Goodbye.

Hey gnat, your B-1 bomber picture brings back memories. I joined the USAF back in 1984 and was stationed at Dyess Air Force Base. Dyess Air Force base in Abilene, Texas was part of SAC (Strategic Air Command) and they got the first B-1 bombers from Rockwell International. I use to work near the flight line and would watch those B-1 Bombers take off from the flight line at night....they would leave a Blue-Flame while their afterburners were on during take-off. During "Alerts" (practice) they would take off one after the other after the other at night....the sound of the engines would rumble through your chest and vibrate your body......good stuff. It was fantastic to watch 6 to 8 B-1's take off one after the other....I'll never forget the shear power of those Bombers.

Side-Story: I was working in the control tower when an SP (Security Police) airman came into our department and said, "Turn around and face the wall." I faced the wall and didn't move for 20 minutes. I then went back to my dorm. I lived in the dorm with the Nuclear Technologist. I told one of the Nuke Tech's (we called 'em "Nuke Pukes") what had happened....he then said, "Oh, they didn't want you looking at the flight line because we went live today with our tomahawk missiles..... they didn't want you to know how many nukes we put on each B-1 bomber.....they didn't want you to give out any information to spies or the news media." WOW!!!! Talk about reality. I lived and worked at Ground Zero back in 1985. But, in the end, the USA and Reagan prevailed. Anyway...... your B-1 bomber pic brought back a wash of memories. :p

Edited January 4, 2014 by rehtus777
Spelling + added to 1st paragraph

[chops 111]

i'm curious, how people like you, were reacting, when arma 2 was released? Do you remember that day? At what state the game came out?

I never played Arma II. I was so annoyed and disappointed that the issues with Arma I were never addressed, that I and a few mates just stuck with good old OFP.

[chrisb 196]

I never played Arma II. I was so annoyed and disappointed that the issues with Arma I were never addressed, that I and a few mates just stuck with good old OFP.

In my view you missed out on the best game of the series (so far), I know it took a while, but it showed better promise than A3 is at the moment.

I just wish they would have held on to A3 until at least the end of this year possibly into next (2015). Put the time and effort into Dayz to get that out of the way, to allow themselves more time to get A3 finished and more like a successor to A2. A2 remains the better game (game play and realism wise), that shouldn't be the case, the series should evolve not step sideways and in some cases backwards.

[rehtus777 10]

In my view you missed out on the best game of the series (so far), I know it took a while, but it showed better promise than A3 is at the moment.

I just wish they would have held on to A3 until at least the end of this year possibly into next (2015). Put the time and effort into Dayz to get that out of the way, to allow themselves more time to get A3 finished and more like a successor to A2. A2 remains the better game (game play and realism wise), that shouldn't be the case, the series should evolve not step sideways and in some cases backwards.

I have a special place in my heart for ArmA 2.... it was my first experience with the series, so that was my "Honeymoon" phase with the game. Is it the best game of the series, so far? No. ArmA 3 is better IMHO.... but it is just an opinion. There are some on here who would say that OFP was the best of the series. I played OFP once I ordered the Supporters Edition and got the ArmA Gold collection..... and I did not like OFP. It was too clunky, chunky, and slow....but it was 2013 when I played it. I'm sure that if I played it back in the early 2000's, I would have loved it as well. I use to be big into Battlefield..... my first real love with a military shooter in Multiplayer was BF 1942. I have fond memories of that game..... loved it much. But, I played it again last summer for the fun of it and I just couldn't stand it..... too slow..... clunky....chunky..... bad game mechanics. I loved the "Genre" and the Story Line - and the map designs were incredible.

With that said, when I play ArmA 2 now in its original format (without All in Arma - and in light of ArmA 3), I just can't stand playing ArmA 2 anymore. The voice radio and the slow zoom drives me nuts.... just to name a few quirks I have with the game now (in light of ArmA 3's game-play). But I love to play ArmA 2 on the Real Virtuality Engine 4 with the new Physx and the new Voice Radio..... I find myself in Takistan these day more than I find myself on Altis.

As for the 2013 release..... I have a theory: I believe that BIS slated the Summer of 2012 for the release of this ArmA 3. With the new Physx and game mechanics, they wanted to quickly improve on their game series to keep up with the times. When they first were working on ArmA 3 and slowly leaking stuff out at Gamescom back in 2011, I got the impression that management was ready to release the game in 2012, but the developers knew they weren't ready. Then when DayZ came along and money started to flow in, they decided to take their time and move it to a later date (I lived out this drama with them for 2 years :p). Then, of course, the developers being arrested didn't help at all and it delayed the game (plus there was some juggling around of management within the company). But back in June of 2012 and after E3, I believe that they delayed ArmA 3 because they didn't want a buggy release like ArmA 2.... the gaming community is getting so "critical" these days.... it would hurt their brand. As for the product being "Finished" on release in September, I believe they made the right move..... it was time and BF4 / COD / Grand Theft Auto 5 were due to be released..... the race for Christmas was on.

But anyway........that last paragraph was just a "Theory."

[GReeves 10]

The voice radio and the slow zoom drives me nuts...

I think ChrisB and I are from a more co-op perspective, so hearing complaints about AI chatter doesn't mean much to me while it probably is a very important element if you're an SP player.

[NeuroFunker 11]

In my view you missed out on the best game of the series (so far), I know it took a while, but it showed better promise than A3 is at the moment.

I just wish they would have held on to A3 until at least the end of this year possibly into next (2015). Put the time and effort into Dayz to get that out of the way, to allow themselves more time to get A3 finished and more like a successor to A2. A2 remains the better game (game play and realism wise), that shouldn't be the case, the series should evolve not step sideways and in some cases backwards.

and we are back, comparing a game which is out 2009, and became tons of updates and content addons, but was so what buggy and more like an alpha at it's release state. Arma 3 is a way better game comparing A2 release vs A3 release, but has less content then A2 now. If you would like to wait until 2015 lol, when the game would look already outdated, fine for you, i'm happy to have it right now, spending 600h already, and planing to spend even more.

And yeah, we would get tons of shit from community at BIS, if they would release dayz and delay arma 3, forums would be full of pessismsts. Look you can have already all arma 2 content in arma 3, is that something useless for you, you are ready to wait to 2015 and play same arma 2, which is sowhat dated now over and over?

Edited January 6, 2014 by NeuroFunker

[katipo66 94]

I've spent just under 600hrs in A3 and fully agree with ChrisB, I'm in and out of both games every other day so comparisons cannot be helped, For me I agree A2 is the better game for gameplay and realism including vanilla without mods.

In saying that Altis and Stratis are mind blowingly bootiful and believable terrains, I've only recently noticed the godrays through the foliage as lately I've only tested stuff in the desert. I even like the space age content, The level of detail in the models is awesome and I agree with an earlier comment that no matter what we all think A3 is an amazing product.

It's just that I can't get my "Arma on" with A3 the way I can with A2, there's a disconnect somewhere, I've downloaded all the A2 maps and content mods for A3 but I simply can't be bothered downloading and re-downloading updates when i already have it for A2.. For Authentic war gaming A2 is king of the hill, but for sandbox style messing around with all the great mods and scripts I like doing that in A3 more.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Katipo66
My English sucks

[tinemem 11]

@ gnat, once you figured out how to increase multicore usage, enable proper culling of objects, and core improvements other than just a bunch of new vehicles, then you are justified in your self importance. until then, stay humble. i've already done more for the game in terms of new visual techniques and performance in the short time i've been here than your entire multi year modding career by creating shadow mapping demonstration pieces in mlod format.

modders should stay humble, because in truth, there is a lot they cannot do. i've been a modder for many games, including here, so don't lecture me about how amazing modding in arma 3 is. it's still very restrictive due to engine limitations. and i shouldn't have to get warnings for saying this because of "buddy moderators".

and i'm not going to report your post for telling me that i'm going to be banned because having class>being arrogant and self important.

thanks.

---------- Post added at 21:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:21 ----------

also, notice in the report box, it says it shouldn't used to harass posters, so i'm guessing the moderator will know what to do, right?

[NeuroFunker 11]

@ gnat, once you figured out how to increase multicore usage, enable proper culling of objects, and core improvements other than just a bunch of new vehicles, then you are justified in your self importance. until then, stay humble. i've already done more for the game in terms of new visual techniques and performance in the short time i've been here than your entire multi year modding career by creating shadow mapping demonstration pieces in mlod format.

modders should stay humble, because in truth, there is a lot they cannot do. i've been a modder for many games, including here, so don't lecture me about how amazing modding in arma 3 is. it's still very restrictive due to engine limitations. and i shouldn't have to get warnings for saying this because of "buddy moderators".

and i'm not going to report your post for telling me that i'm going to be banned because having class>being arrogant and self important.

thanks.

---------- Post added at 21:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:21 ----------

also, notice in the report box, it says it shouldn't used to harass posters, so i'm guessing the moderator will know what to do, right?

you seem bit angry, bruh?