An Honest Review

[GReeves 10]

I thought it was time somebody summed up what we're currently facing in ARMA3. This is the opinion of myself and my squad, so I don't expect everyone to agree with me. However, I think BI would do well to take some time and read what we've got to say.

One crazy dude in our team has wanted to switch over to ARMA3 ever since it was released. He'd ignore our pleas to join the ARMA2 server and we'd see a notification telling us that he was launching ARMA3. This happened every single day and after awhile we started thinking, man, ARMA3 must be pretty interesting. After a few weeks, we decided that ARMA3 would give us some cool new features, open up some refreshing features, and possibly boost our member count. By Christmas, almost all of us had our copies and we were starting to do some tests and figure out what kind of campaign we wanted to run on our ARMA3 server.

Let me make it clear at this point that I am in no way trying to blame Diogo, the ARMA3 fanatic, for any of this. I'm just using him as an example of how enthusiastic he, and later all of us, were about the new game.

Once I had spent a miserable two days burning up my bandwidth to download the massive 10gb update for ARMA3, fighting Steam in a struggle to run my game on offline mode without the latest version, and manipulating the graphics settings to get my FPS above the 15-20 range, I finally started to play ARMA3. I messed around in the editor to try out the new stances and features and I liked what I saw. The extra stances and movement speeds are really neat and useful, although I'd prefer something more flexible like Raven Shield's adjustment system.

When I was happy with my controls and more familiar with the game mechanics, I decided to have some fun in the editor since none of my teammates were online to try out the new game with me. I was a bit surprised to find absolutely no fixed wing aircraft for the NATO or CSAT forces, but I knew we'd be able to find some good mods to add in cool jets like the FA18. I was also disappointed with the other ground vehicles, especially the pathetically weak Hunter MRAP and the clumsy HEMTT cargo truck. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that I've hit rocks at about 10mph in the Hunter and caused my tires to pop and the engine to explode. It feels like I'm driving cars made out of cheap plastic, but maybe that's the new thing in 2035. I also don't like the new MX series of weapons, especially those that fire the underpowered 6.5mil cartridge. We'll be able to port ARMA2 content anyway, so the vehicles and weapons aren't that much of an issue.

However, over the last few days, I've seen our excitement about the new features getting drowned out by annoying problems that are actually features of the game. I'm allowed to fight terrorism in my underwear, while I can't wear an enemy uniform to blend in behind enemy lines because to do so would, paraphrasing from the in-game manual, be "against the Geneva Convention regulations." I can use the simple but refreshing attachment system to build my own personal loadout, but immediately after picking up any item from a crate, the game will not let me put it back into the crate. I'm able to perform daring underwater insertions into hostile territory, yet the "dual-purpose" magazines (which I can only assume should be effective both underwater and on the ground) are totally ineffective unless you're using them in a backyard airsoft game.

It's not just little things that can be overlooked though. The enemy AI are the biggest problem we've encountered. The first time I got into a firefight with them, I came up behind a sentry standing next to an armored car. I fired three 5.56mm rounds into his back, but he didn't even flinch, so I had to run away and reload for another go at him. Using the 6.5mm MX rifle, I've poured at least eight rounds into an enemy soldier without affecting his ability to whip up his rifle and pull off two perfectly accurate shots fired at my face while crawling around in a puddle of his own blood. I also find it interesting how fearless they are when you are pouring high volume fire towards them, but can you blame them? If I were invincible, I guess I'd be pretty brave too. And it wouldn't be so bad if BI had the excuse of 2035's futuristic armor being able to stop that kind of damage. I mean, impenetrable forcefield armor is kind of stupid and gameplay-degrading, but hey, it's all in the name of realism, right? But what I find funny is that while the CSAT's men are equipped with this incredibly durable armor that keeps them from even being stunned by the impact of a high-caliber rifle round in center mass, we poor NATO guys can only take about two shots before collapsing in a pile of dead-ness. If we do manage to survive a hit, we're so crippled and shaky that we can't even run or shoot effectively enough to keep ourselves alive long enough to use one of those great magic FAKs. But there's good news -- the Firefight Improvement System makes a huge difference in AI behavior, and while they still have their superarmor, they actually react to fire and try to make it to cover like they should. Firefights are actually kind of fun in ARMA3. It's a good thing that this great community is pumping out these awesome addons to make this game playable. With enough effort from all our faithful modders, I think ARMA3 will eventually become a great game equal, if not superior, to the previous titles in this series.

But maybe as you read my post you realized the same thing that Diogo and I did after a long session of ARMA3 tonight. Our modders are spending months working on mods to fix these issues, while we're spending weeks testing mods to make the game playable against BI's CSAT soldiers who are obviously immigrants from some galaxy far, far, away where people have dorky futuristic costumes and can only be taken down with a laser gun or the force. Like one of my friends said, maybe someday soon "ARMA3 will have lots of good vehicles, weapons, and units, and the AI won't be superhuman. Then we should switch games." However, until that happens, I guess the community will just have to make do with porting ARMA2 content to get good vehicles, units, and weapons, and downloading mods to reduce the AI's skill, endurance, and fear-instilling armor plates.

But is ARMA3 worth the trouble? I mean, the diving is fun and I like the new stances. But is ARMA3 really worth it? That's what I asked Diogo, the ARMA3 fanatic. And his answer was:

"NO WAY. LET'S PLAY SOME ARMA2."

And that's exactly what I plan to do until BI takes matters into their own hands and fixes these ridiculous, intolerable, and major issues with THEIR game that modders should not have to deal with.

[Harry_Flashman 1]

You may be right that Arma 2 is the overall better game currently. But, as someone who bought/downloaded pretty much every variant of Arma 2 (in order to prepare for Arma 3 launch), I can tell you that there's NO WAY I'll ever go back to Arma 2. I just can't live with the graphics and animations. I may be missing out, but I'm enjoying Arma 3 immensely, currently.

I do agree that it's far from perfect, however. The AI - as you stated - is hard to kill. Heck, I'm sure I've "filled" some of them up with 10-15 shots within 10m before, with limited effect. And one survived a hand grenade tossed into a tiny room today, even though I took blast damage standing outside the house. Still love it, though.

[progamer 14]

You missed the fact that inertia got removed from player turning and wasn't even still around as an option. I can spin a pistol around at the same speed as a sniper rifle. I can spin around and stop on a dime without any inertia.

The whole future excuse for things not being realistic is lame, almost everything exists today and I doubt they would remake old tech in the exact same image if it was better. Then there's the whole "we feel the factions should be distinguishable yet balanced" statement that explains why we basically have generic faction one, two and three. I mean before we knew much about Arma 3, people were excited for a Milsim that was like ACE and had multiple new large features, but instead Arma 3 turned out to be the opposite of that.

Looking back at development it just seems like things just went wrong and we ended up with the current Arma 3. They had huge plans and intended the game to be realistic, but then just ditched that for the Arma we have today. You can see fans have wanted the game to be more realistic both here and on the feedback tracker but that appears to have fallen on deaf ears and many have given up and left. BI seems to be chasing a different fan base while leaving the previous one in the dark.

Some positives to Arma 3 are the new penetration ballistics model but it begins to break down at larger distances. Physx is nice but not fully added and useable. The graphics seem to be an upgrade but only lighting takes advantage of DirectX10 which is saddening. At the moment the downsides tend to outweigh the positives in Arma 3.

Edited December 28, 2013 by ProGamer

[windies 11]

You may be right that Arma 2 is the overall better game currently. But, as someone who bought/downloaded pretty much every variant of Arma 2 (in order to prepare for Arma 3 launch), I can tell you that there's NO WAY I'll ever go back to Arma 2. I just can't live with the graphics and animations. I may be missing out, but I'm enjoying Arma 3 immensely, currently.

I do agree that it's far from perfect, however. The AI - as you stated - is hard to kill. Heck, I'm sure I've "filled" some of them up with 10-15 shots within 10m before, with limited effect. And one survived a hand grenade tossed into a tiny room today, even though I took blast damage standing outside the house. Still love it, though.

I used to say that I wouldn't go back to ArmA 2 because of ArmA 3's graphics until I bought the ArmA 2 complete pack when it was on sale on steam for 80% off and played with my group during their ArmA 2 nights. I hate to say it but ArmA 3 is to ArmA 2 a whole different feeling experience and ArmA 3 pales in comparison to ArmA 2. The only thing ArmA 3 is really "good" at is graphics. Even the PhysX isn't really that impressive with the bugs and issue's that it causes the AI.

Overall I feel pretty much the same way as the OP and I know some of my group feels the same way.

[roshnak 41]

I just can't live with the graphics

I used to say that I wouldn't go back to ArmA 2 because of ArmA 3's graphics

Is this seriously the reason you are choosing Arma 3 over Arma 2?

[windies 11]

Is this seriously the reason you are choosing Arma 3 over Arma 2?

No, in fact if you read my post I'm not choosing ArmA 3 over ArmA 2 by any means.

[XBrettlyX 10]

Silly argument really. Arma 3 WILL be better than Arma 2 given time, same as Arma 2 > Arma 1. Patience is a virtue.. possess it if you can.

[Varanon 892]

Silly argument really. Arma 3 WILL be better than Arma 2 given time, same as Arma 2 > Arma 1. Patience is a virtue.. possess it if you can.

"It will be better"... now that's what I call a silly argument.

You judge by current merits, and potential. And while the potential is there, the points the OP brought up are valid points, and saying "It WILL be better" is like saying "Sit on a nail, the pain WILL go away after some time".

[Alwarren 2765]

Silly argument really. Arma 3 WILL be better than Arma 2 given time, same as Arma 2 > Arma 1. Patience is a virtue.. possess it if you can.

Oh right, just like Rainbow Six Vegas got better than Rainbow Six Raven Shield over time, right? Just because something is newer doesn't make it any better, and time will usually not change that.

I am not saying that I am not enjoying Arma 3, but this type of blind "keep-the-faith" slogans are neither true, nor are they helpful. Every time someone points out something he believes to be flaw or an issue, someone just feels the urge to step up and tell them they are wrong "just because".

[invisibull 0]

I must say that when factoring in the mods, addons and scripts already available, that Arma 3 is much further along than some seem to think. The issues with hyper-accuracy and hard to kill AI have already been sorted to a certain degree. Check out the EOS thread or message me to see how. Modders (the absolute salt of the earth imo) have already given us really nice sounds, real world and well done weapons as in AK's, M16s, M4s and M249s just to name a few, and a bunch of incredible A3 ready scripts such as UPSMON and EOS, and ALIVE.

I'd argue that A3 when compared with A2 in its first few months is far superior in countless ways and there's no reason to think that it won't quickly eclipse A2 completely in short order. Have you not noticed the pace of new mod releases?

Having said all that, I totally agree that A3 has some undeniably rough edges, and that it does seem that BIS is perfectly happy to cede a certain amount of its work load to the community. But is that something new? Was it not exactly that way for all the releases right back to OFP? Of course it was.

Not to take away from the many valid complaints i've seen here, but I am already enjoying A3 immensely and by every indication, it's just going to get better.

Regards,

Invisibull

[XBrettlyX 10]

I must say that when factoring in the mods, addons and scripts already available, that Arma 3 is much further along than some seem to think. The issues with hyper-accuracy and hard to kill AI have already been sorted to a certain degree. Check out the EOS thread or message me to see how. Modders (the absolute salt of the earth imo) have already given us really nice sounds, real world and well done weapons as in AK's, M16s, M4s and M249s just to name a few, and a bunch of incredible A3 ready scripts such as UPSMON and EOS, and ALIVE.

I'd argue that A3 when compared with A2 in its first few months is far superior in countless ways and there's no reason to think that it won't quickly eclipse A2 completely in short order. Have you not noticed the pace of new mod releases?

Having said all that, I totally agree that A3 has some undeniably rough edges, and that it does seem that BIS is perfectly happy to cede a certain amount of its work load to the community. But is that something new? Was it not exactly that way for all the releases right back to OFP? Of course it was.

Not to take away from the many valid complaints i've seen here, but I am already enjoying A3 immensely and by every indication, it's just going to get better.

Regards,

Invisibull

..and 224+ hrs in, that's what I base my comment on.

[Nicholas 5]

You have some valid points here GReeves. I agree with you mostly about the magical armor and weak vehicles.

I must say though, I'm enjoying vanilla ArmA 3 very much.

porting ARMA2 content to get good vehicles, units, and weapons,...

I actually really like the new ArmA 3 setting and new vehicles/weapons/units/objects. It is something different. I don't understand how people will complain that ArmA 3 has little content and the vehicle variants are only copy and pasted. From Operation Flashpoint in 2001 until ArmA 2: Operation Arrowhead in 2010, they reused many of the vehicles over and over again. Almost ten years of using the same vehicles, yet no one complained about that.

[Varanon 892]

I actually really like the new ArmA 3 setting and new vehicles/weapons/units/objects. It is something different.

My major gripe with the new content is that you lack the "identification"... like, with an AK, you immediately know "Russia", and an M4 is US. An M1A1 is a US tank... Slammer ? It looks like an israeli tank, but it supposedly a US tank.... And who the heck is CSAT ? Iranians ? No "Allahu Akbar" Iranians, though, but technocratic Iranians...

I guess the scenario is too detached from reality, which is why people want the "known" factions and equipment back (Arma 2 content FTW).

I guess all this stuff still needs some time to sink in. Once you can say "It's a Pawnee" and no longer say "There's a Littlebird", it's going to be better.

[Tankbuster 1733]

From Operation Flashpoint in 2001 until ArmA 2: Operation Arrowhead in 2010, they reused many of the vehicles over and over again. Almost ten years of using the same vehicles, yet no one complained about that.

Under normal circumstances, I'd point at you and shout 'mindless fanboy', but you make a good point here, and one that I've not seen or been conscious of before. The A10 appears, largely unchanged in every iteration of the game until this one, yet no-one complains of copy-pasting or unimaginative content.

[codarl 1]

Due to the invincible AI in ArmA 3, I tried ArmA 2 yesterday. Razor four ran head-first into the tail rotor of Starforce 21 and promptly died. Alt-F4-ed out again. Time spend: 15 minutes.

I think I'm going to get another copy of Skyrim or something...

[Varanon 892]

Due to the invincible AI in ArmA 3, I tried ArmA 2 yesterday. Razor four ran head-first into the tail rotor of Starforce 21 and promptly died. Alt-F4-ed out again. Time spend: 15 minutes.

Blaming a problem of ACE on Arma 2 ? Speaking of silly arguments.

[Alwarren 2765]

Due to the invincible AI in ArmA 3, I tried ArmA 2 yesterday. Razor four ran head-first into the tail rotor of Starforce 21 and promptly died. Alt-F4-ed out again. Time spend: 15 minutes.

The tail rotor will not harm you either in Arma 2 nor in Arma 3. Since I don't believe that someone with a join date of 2005 and 2000 posts doesn't know that, I can only conclude that you are constructing this argument intentionally ignoring the facts.

[NeuroFunker 11]

i used to play coop with ACE asri jsrs blastcore a lot in arma 2, now i have spend nearly 600 hours in arma 3, and plan to spend additional 600 hours next years, me and a buddy tried to play some arma 2 with ace few days back again, but arma 2 feels really outdated now, animations, player controls, graphics, we played for few hours then decided to go back to arma 3, meanwhile blastcore 3 came to arma 3, we made some test runs, and it was really jaw dropping, we said with all respect to good old arma 2, it just got old, and we are playing arma 3 all the time. It all depeds on people who play, and their expectations, arma 2 for me and some of my friends, a no way to return anymore.

[BL1P 35]

I play on elite mode with everything off except cam shake.

We play a mission that has the created AI using a script to decrease the AIs accuracy and other stuff.

The AI in ArmA3 in that mission with those server settings are far superior to the ArmA2 AI. They will flank, take cover, suppress while they order other AI to flank and engage. They will traverse houses to get to us. Enter houses to engage us.

All in All a far better experience for us with ArmA3 AI in CQB than we ever had with AI in ArmA2.

Yes sometimes they take 3 or 4 hits at center mass but never the amounts you guys are talking about.

It also seems that some settings are hard coded into the lower server settings.

If you use regular but think you have it set up like elite your wrong the AI will take more hits than they would in Elite, So will the player.

No matter if you remove the Extended Armour or not.

Easy answer don't play on the lower difficulty's play Elite mode.

[NeuroFunker 11]

You have some valid points here GReeves. I agree with you mostly about the magical armor and weak vehicles.

I must say though, I'm enjoying vanilla ArmA 3 very much.

I actually really like the new ArmA 3 setting and new vehicles/weapons/units/objects. It is something different. I don't understand how people will complain that ArmA 3 has little content and the vehicle variants are only copy and pasted. From Operation Flashpoint in 2001 until ArmA 2: Operation Arrowhead in 2010, they reused many of the vehicles over and over again. Almost ten years of using the same vehicles, yet no one complained about that.

agreed that, i'm personally pretty tired of all the same vehicles, weapons, equipment every time. And it is indeed refreshing to have something new and different finally. Especially since most of the tech used in arma 3, exists today, it doesn't cause me a butthurt, cause i can't shoot an m4 or ak, once again, even m4 and ak addons are already out for arma 3, i do preffer to play with default a3 equip.

---------- Post added at 12:48 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

I play on elite mode with everything off except cam shake.

We play a mission that has the created AI using a script to decrease the AIs accuracy and other stuff.

The AI in ArmA3 in that mission with those server settings are far superior to the ArmA2 AI. They will flank, take cover, suppress while they order other AI to flank and engage. They will traverse houses to get to us. Enter houses to engage us.

All in All a far better experience for us with ArmA3 AI in CQB than we ever had with AI in ArmA2.

Yes sometimes they take 3 or 4 hits at center mass but never the amounts you guys are talking about.

It also seems that some settings are hard coded into the lower server settings.

If you use regular but think you have it set up like elite your wrong the AI will take more hits than they would in Elite, So will the player.

No matter if you remove the Extended Armour or not.

Easy answer don't play on the lower difficulty's play Elite mode.

hmm, i'm actually having regular pimped to elite, maybe i'll try use elite instead.

[artisanal 22]

I think we can all agree on the fact that BIS i.e. the arma series (really) needs a competitor (and no, BISim doesn't fully count as a competitor for obvious reasons).

[Nicholas 5]

I think we can all agree on the fact that BIS i.e. the arma series (really) needs a competitor (and no, BISim doesn't fully count as a competitor for obvious reasons).

They do have competitors. Activision and EA, two of the most known.

[NeuroFunker 11]

They do have competitors. Activision and EA, two of the most known.

that one was funny.

[Nicholas 5]

that one was funny.

You don't think they're competitors? How many players have you seen that have posted in this forum stating that they came from Battlefield or Call of Duty? I've personally seen quite a few. When you have a transfer of players like that, I'd say there must be competition.

Pretend that ArmA is a restaurant. Right across from that restaurant is a gas station (Battlefield & Call of Duty) that also happens to sell pizza and hot dogs. The restaurant (ArmA) wants those people to come eat at their establishment, rather than buying food from the gas station that sells the pizza and hot dogs, correct? Competition.

[artisanal 22]

You're misinterpretating my post. You have to understand the term "a new competitor" as another dev who would make a semi- military simulation with quite big maps and so on (i.e. "a DIRECT competitor").

I understand your point though. ArmA is a FPS, like the other famous games you're suggesting. But they are not of the same kind. It's as if you'd compare Mario Kart to Forza or pCARS.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Artisanal