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Drongo69

Drongos Artillery (an advanced artillery system)

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I am working on a mission with this, combined with ALIVE (if it makes a difference). I have a section of scorchers, and they take the call for fire, but when I fire for effect (10 rounds) they take forever to complete the mission. it should go very fast. any ideas?

also, can you create an immediate suppression call for fire capability? this is a for for effect immediately, usually on a target of opportunity or as a last ditch effort to save oneself.

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What asset are you using? If mortars then I say yeah, drop the time but artillery? It can take a minute sometimes for clearance...

And I second the Imm. Suppression (don't forget Imm. Smoke too...), good call on that one, totally slipped my mind.

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@hlfritz

I have all pieces firing with the same delay between rounds/rockets at the moment. I can make the MLRS fire with a very small delay between rockets, but this will mean that it will not be able to execute sheafs. Basically all rocket will fire at the same coordinates and only the natural deviancy of the rockets will affect the size of the impact area.

Regarding immediate suppression, could you guys give me more detail? How does it differ from regular calls for fire? Less accuracy? How long does it take for an immediate suppression mission to arrive? How should an immediate suppression mission be modeled in-game?

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@hlfritz

I have all pieces firing with the same delay between rounds/rockets at the moment. I can make the MLRS fire with a very small delay between rockets, but this will mean that it will not be able to execute sheafs. Basically all rocket will fire at the same coordinates and only the natural deviancy of the rockets will affect the size of the impact area.

Regarding immediate suppression, could you guys give me more detail? How does it differ from regular calls for fire? Less accuracy? How long does it take for an immediate suppression mission to arrive? How should an immediate suppression mission be modeled in-game?

There's no difference. Remember in our PMs I mentioned basic I.N. missions? same thing, different terminology. The basic CFF template is still used, which will differ slightly between different countries, but there are no special procedures.

Edited by D.Smithy

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i HAVE TRIED all the radios and nothing works for me. From the default radio to Acre to Task Force. The mod is installed properly. Still nothing.

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@chondo999

Do you have CBA installed? Are you opening the inventory and clicking on the radio in the radio slot?

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immediate suppression works just like a FFE, but you just FFE right away and there is some urgency involved (usually). so the rounds usually splash quicker but at some loss of accuracy. the current template could be used (as mentioned) to conduct an immediate suppression by just doing an FFE right away, but then they will take the same amount of time to arrive (splash). the whole point to immediate suppression is the immediate part. you should be able to call any type of round for immediate suppression (I think), but definitely smoke and HE at least.

with the delay I am referring to, it is not the initial shot but the entire mission after the FFE is called - i.e. how long it takes each tube to fire all rounds. it is taking forever for 10 rounds to be fired out of 2 tubes. in RL (real life) the entire mission should be very fast after the adjustments a FFE is called for. for larger tubes I do not know for sure how long it takes them to fire 3 rounds (typical FFE mission, 3 rounds per tube), but in 81mm and 4.2" mortars, those rounds (all of them - I have done it) are out of the tube in 10-20 seconds.

also your idea on mlrs is likely quite plausible. they are large area weapons and not as accurate as regular artillery.

I would suggest, if possible, to set a different delay between rounds for each type of tube if possible. also, if not too complicated, there could be a variance in time between rounds fired based upon skill factor as well. more experienced crews can fire faster.

also is there an issue with mk6 mortar teams (NATO) not being recognized by the script? I can get mlrs and scorchers to be recognized, but not the nk6 mortar teams.

kudos so far, this is pretty cool.

Edited by hlfritz

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I get Mk6 mortars (though I don't like them, a little way too inaccurate for me in some cases) everytime. Are you making them a separate group? If not then that's your problem as the scripting groups assets together if they are grouped.

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@chondo999

Do you have CBA installed? Are you opening the inventory and clicking on the radio in the radio slot?

Yes, I have CBA installed. I am opening the inventory and clicking on the radio in the radio slot. I do not know why it is not working. I watched your video and emulated every single thing you did.

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Made a quick video of what happens when using your addon. Hopefully more people will understand the awesomness!

Wanted to do a howto first, but only got virtual dub atm and the calling process isnt as interesting as big-bada-booms all over the place, so here goes :D

yAV7jkcKx5w

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Awesome mod Drongo! This is very close to the way you call arty support IRL :)

I got a problem with the mod though, each time I call FFE, the first round shot by each artillery unit falls where it should but afterwards all rounds are off and keep falling on that same off position until the fire mission is completed.

EDIT: Happens in SP and MP. I aimed at a point, rounds always fall where it should on PLOT then as soon as I asked FFE, first rounds fell where it should but then succeedings fell off by about 500m to the right and ~200m farther.

Tried with mortar and scorchers, issue happended with both.

Also noticed that if you ask a group for FFE, they will each fire the asked rounds. So for example, if you ask a platoon of 4 scorchers to fire 1 round, they will each fire 1 round (for a total of 4 rounds). It should either state that you ask a number of shots instead to make it clearer or make it so that they effectively shoot only the number of asked rounds.

Thanks again and keep up the good work!

Edited by Silverwave

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immediate suppression works just like a FFE, but you just FFE right away and there is some urgency involved (usually). so the rounds usually splash quicker but at some loss of accuracy. the current template could be used (as mentioned) to conduct an immediate suppression by just doing an FFE right away, but then they will take the same amount of time to arrive (splash). the whole point to immediate suppression is the immediate part. you should be able to call any type of round for immediate suppression (I think), but definitely smoke and HE at least.

with the delay I am referring to, it is not the initial shot but the entire mission after the FFE is called - i.e. how long it takes each tube to fire all rounds. it is taking forever for 10 rounds to be fired out of 2 tubes. in RL (real life) the entire mission should be very fast after the adjustments a FFE is called for. for larger tubes I do not know for sure how long it takes them to fire 3 rounds (typical FFE mission, 3 rounds per tube), but in 81mm and 4.2" mortars, those rounds (all of them - I have done it) are out of the tube in 10-20 seconds.

also your idea on mlrs is likely quite plausible. they are large area weapons and not as accurate as regular artillery.

I would suggest, if possible, to set a different delay between rounds for each type of tube if possible. also, if not too complicated, there could be a variance in time between rounds fired based upon skill factor as well. more experienced crews can fire faster.

also is there an issue with mk6 mortar teams (NATO) not being recognized by the script? I can get mlrs and scorchers to be recognized, but not the nk6 mortar teams.

kudos so far, this is pretty cool.

What. The . Fuck. You're describing in the first paragraph a very basic fire mission (well basic in the UK anyway). No "immediate suppression" crap at all. The splash of the rounds depends on many factors, distance from Gun Line to target, how good the grid you've plotted is, etc. Shit grid = missing the target and potentially fragging your own troops and/or civilians. A good grid means hitting the target and only conducting very minor adjustments of the MPI/MPB, if at all. And… No, can't be fucked to explain the rest, you obviously know it all. I've only been doing the job for real for the past 14 years...

Awesome mod Drongo! This is very close to the way you call arty support IRL :)

Also noticed that if you ask a group for FFE, they will each fire the asked rounds. So for example, if you ask a platoon of 4 scorchers to fire 1 round, they will each fire 1 round (for a total of 4 rounds). It should either state that you ask a number of shots instead to make it clearer or that they effectively shoot only the number of asked rounds.

These two elements of you post, Silverwave, prove to me that you know fuck all about how it's done in RL.

Drongo69, You're doing excellent work, mate. When I've had the chance to properly get into the updated version (since the last one you sent me), I'll give some feedback on what is already a very well built mod.

Edited by D.Smithy

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It's not shit grids it's shit dispersion. The mortar fires way out of whack despite the grid, good or shit, which is why I personally don't use them. But he is right (after my fifteen years of being an FO/JFO myself) that by default the spread is too wide. Putting it in a box only makes it tighter but the sheaf still needs to be worked on.

And besides on a personal note, we're not impressed Dr. Smitty especially your attitude. Pride is one thing but jumping on somebody due to a mod error NOT professional capabilities is well... not impressive. You're not the only FO out there (as well as me) so seriously, calm down before jumping down somebody's throat about something he can't control.

I mean I can say I got a Bronze Star (in which I do have) from my tour in Afghanistan working as a Company FSNCO but that's well... It's not a contest on who's balls are bigger, just working on getting this mod to a better standard.

Edited by EricJ

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Heh, lot's of professional pride amongst the artillerymen :) Let's keep it civil though, ay gents?

@chondo999

The only other thing I can suggest is try running CBA and DT only, no other mods. Also, the system is not tested with Dev build.

@MrBurns, thanks for the vid, I'll add it to the first post.

@Silverwave

Which sheaf are you using? Which size? Which island? What (approximate) range? There is also a recurring issue where a gun can totally misfire a round in a completely different direction on a ridiculously high angle. I think this is a BIS bug and I have no idea how to fix it. To see what I mean, put down the DTA Debug module and fire some missions with lots of rounds. Watch the map and see some round markers drifting way off target (much slower than other rounds). Maybe this bug is the culprit?

I did a lot of testing on the sheafs, and excepting the bug above, rounds should not fall outside of the sheaf size more than a few meters.

Regarding rounds, I thought that saying 4 rounds meant each tube fires 4 rounds? That's how it worked in CoC UA and it would be a pain to track the exact number of rounds fired by the battery.

I'll post the first-shot grid dispersion info again for comment by the pros:

Range: Dispersion

Under 1000: 0

1000-5000: 0-50

5000+: 0-100

10000+: 0-150

15000+: 0-200

Note this is scripted dispersion, before game-simulated (ie. config information, wind, etc) dispersion. All asset types use the same for now.

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Thx Drongo for the quick answer.

Nah, I don't think it's the bug you mention because it's not a single gun or a single shot that misfire way off, it's all the shots after the first salvo for each of the guns.

I tested it with a range of 2 km and 4km with a sheaf of 100m with low angle (battery was placed on top of a very high mountain and each SPOT shot was on target, as the first salvo of FFE so they are not firing in a mountain flank or something). Each time all the shots after the first salvo were falling in the same zone (which is outside the targetted area, even when you don't apply any adjutments).

At 2 km it was off EXACTLY 300m to the right and 300m too far. At 5km it was about 500m right and short (I didn't checked more precisely).

I'll try more testing and report back what I find if you'd like.

What's DTA Debug module? It is the module that trace the trajectories of bullets/shells? Would be helpful but I can't find it when searching for DTA :S

Regarding the rounds, I guess what confused me is that when you are calling for a SPOT for 1 round, it fires a single round and when FFE for 1 round, it fires 4.

But I guess it makes sense when you know it?

I'm infantry so I'm no arty pro hehe. I've learned how to call arty in my leadership course but in all honesty, I use my template sheet so I don't fuck up, lol.

It's partly why I'm using this mod (with my template sheet besides me) so I can practice a bit! ;)

EDIT: Is there binoculars with integrated rulers in miles for Arma 3 so you can better calculate the adjustments?

Edited by Silverwave

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I was thinking about that the other day Silverwave, but it's also good practice without binos as I adjust with my eyes more than worrying about binos.

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@Silverwave

Could you please upload your mission with exact instructions on how to replicate the problem?

What's DTA Debug module?
In the editor, hit F7 for modules and double click anywhere on the map. A window will open up. Then scroll down until you find a few options with (DTA) on the front. Whack down (DTA) Debug and it will put markers for all shells and impacts.

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Great, I'll do that right now. I'll upload and give you the link in few minutes.

I'll deactivate all mods beforehand, maybe one of my mods doesn't get along with yours :P

@EricJ

Well, I guess one could use the laser designator and point at the hit zone, register the azimut in degrees and then point at the desired impact spot, check the azimut and calculate the distance (left/right) with the difference in degrees.

I know that at 1km, 1 mil equals 1 meter on the actual terrain (formulae is Distance = Size / mil) and that there is 17,78 mils in 1 degree (6400 mil / 360 degress).

So I guess you can say : D = Size / Angle (degrees) x 17.78.

Dammit, it's not as easy and intuitive to calculate lol. I wish Arma was using mils instead of degrees!

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If I remember correctly 1 degree equals... 17.7 mils, you may want to do the math to verify but should be right. After a while your brain starts to do all of the calculations and your instinct kicks in and you can start moving away from the binos if you're doing close missions (mine are well... danger close when I practice) but I haven't shot long range so I can't tell if the OT factor comes into play with this mod or not as well.

And if you look closely at the compass you can see they have the mil pattern there too as well. Since direction seems to be auto done, its just a matter of you training your mind to use the mil portion of the compass. Matter of fact the one modeled is the same lensatic compass you can get at military clothing and sales.

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@Drongo

Here you can see what I mean in this screenshot.

The Ifrit was my target. All SPOT rounds fell approximately 100m from the designated grid, first salvo of FFE was also on target but all subsequent ones were like 1.5ish km off.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/486686236637325766/DF5047EBB9B507915183477AC910682D5FA5F8BB/

EDIT: It's consistent. Everytime I call FFE on that spot, every salvo after the first always hit the same grid.

Here's the mission file if you want to try to reproduce (ask for permission, I will give it).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwei_ZFWBYlPUGJXX3BhckxIeUE/edit?usp=sharing

Try few SPOT shot at the grid where the Ifrit is and adjustments. Everything seems fine.

Ask for FFE. Notice first salvo is fine. Notice all subsequent salvos are off to grid approxi 188 138.

Edited by Silverwave

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First post updated with new version. Changelog:

  • Changed to an 8 digit grid reference
  • Stopped the MTO message for all except the first round (side chat will still appear for FFE)
  • Added a "Return to Assets" button to the aimpoint and control dialogs
  • Last dialog is now remembered
  • Added an "End Of Mission" button which releases the asset and closes the dialog
  • FFE no longer automatically releases the asset (must manually select End Of Mission)
  • PLOT no longer automatically releases the asset (must manually select End Of Mission)
  • Adjusted MLRS fire speed
  • Adjusted time between mortar rounds to 10 seconds (was 5)
  • Changed the way "rounds complete" is called (was using an estimate of time, now called by the asset itself when the final round is fired)
  • Added a "Help" button to the aimpoint dialog
  • Added a dedicated key to access the dialogs (Windows app key by default, change in the userconfig file)

Once the usability is pretty solid, I will focus on fixing accuracy. When discussing accuracy, consider the following:

Initial (in)accuracy: This is scripted but can be removed by using a module. In this the aimpoint is dispersed, not the rounds themselves.

Sheaf/adjustment accuracy: In other words, the x,y,z values the system uses to make the artillery look at a certain point. There is a possibility that my maths is off here.

BIS accuracy: The shells have a degree of "natural" dispersion that I assume is from a config entry. When I was getting the initial z values for the system, shells would almost never land within a few meters twice in a row. At longer ranges the dispersion is dozens of meters when aiming at exactly the same point (ie. no sheaf/scatter scripts interfering). A potential solution is to look at configging new artillery pieces and shells.

Misfires: Sometimes a gun will fire a round completely off-target, even though previous/subsequent rounds are fine. I wonder if this is a result of telling the gun to fire before it is loaded, then ordering it to look at a different position.

@Silverwave

Could you please upload to dropbox or somewhere else? I don't have a google account.

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You are the man.....thanks for the update Mr. Ahmadinejad. :D The 8 digit grid reference is a God-Send.

Edited by rehtus777

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In this version not fix TFAR problem?

And i cant use MLRS, not work for my in the previus release, and in this release. Of course have CBA loaded, i can use M4, but with M5, i tried all configurations and every say same messages, "Invalid asset type", i tried all, i not understand what happen. No others addons loaded, only CBA and you addon.

Edited by Legolasindar

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Updated version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

==================================================

You are not registered on Armaholic, or at least not that we are aware of. In the future we offer the possibility to authors to maintain their own pages.

If you wish to be able to do this as well please register on Armaholic and let me know about it.

This is not mandatory at all! Only if you wish to control your own content you are welcome to join, otherwise we will continue to follow your work like we have always done ;)

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

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