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bushlurker

Rules Clarification Please! - Are "Terrains" excluded from the contest?

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Following on from some discussion on the "Terrainmakers" Skype channel, it would be good to have some Official Clarification as to the status of "Terrains" within the contest category structure...

Obviously, a terrain - by itself - doesn't fall under the category of "Total Conversion", though they may well form a significant part of the assets of such a TC...

The most obvious alternate category for a "simple" Terrain addon would be...... "Addons"... however, the rules state.....

Arma 3 addon providing the game with weapon, weapon attachment, vehicle, unit part, unit or any combination of the items mentioned in any extent.

No mention of terrains here - in fact, it seems to specifically exclude them!

So - If I were to spend the next nine months making a terrain that utterly blows Altis out of the water, it would be ineligible for the competition, whereas if I make a pair of glasses, a silly hat or a scope attachment then - technically at least - I'm able to compete?

Seems kinda unfair, and excludes a sizeable and particularly ingenious and creative section of the community...

It'd be awfully nice if some kind BI rep could wander by and give us some Official Word on this aspect of the rules.... there's a whole bunch of talented guys currently in the dark on this subject....

B

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Modification of the game delivering new context of gameplay and setting

Vbs2 owners have an unfair advantage having the use of V4 and more so external developers with such tools as the newer terrasim etc http://www.terrasim.com/.

External developers of the Organizer whose business relationships are based solely on a Framework Agreements or Individual Production Agreement can also take part in the competition

...............................

Edited by Sealife

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Terrains are included as part of the

"Modification of the game delivering new context of gameplay and setting "

for the the total conversion

Yeah - I sortof covered that with the...

Obviously, a terrain - by itself - doesn't fall under the category of "Total Conversion", though they may well form a significant part of the assets of such a TC

bit...

I was more interested in Terrains as a "Modification of the game delivering new context of gameplay and setting " ... ie: as an "Addon" in their own right, and their status thereof.

As for the rest - kinda straying considerably from the original purpose of my post, but...

Vbs2 owners have an unfair advantage having the use of V4 and more so external developers with such tools as the newer terrasim etc http://www.terrasim.com/.

... and 3DsMAX owners have an advantage over those who don't, Photoshop owners have an advantage over GIMP users (?) I bought an L3DT license a few years back - unfair!!! :)...

And, as far as TerraTools is concerned, firstly it doesn't "make Arma terrains", (nor does VBS2 Visitor 4, for that matter), and even if it did, you'd be sorely disappointed by the output, which I would rate as "average/decent Arma 1-era quality" - at best...

It makes relatively simple training environments for VBS - a Training Tool...

There's a thread for (extended) VBS discussion HERE

B

Edited by Bushlurker

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and 3DsMAX owners have an advantage over those who don't, Photoshop owners have an advantage over GIMP users (?) I bought an L3DT license a few years back - unfair!!!

well i guess the patronising was always going to be the bulk of your post as history shows.

3dsmax owners have no more advantage than blender owner which is free and neither is relevant .

...............................

Edited by Sealife

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I want to say that if you built a really slick mission or campaign to showcase a terrain designed just for the contest, it wouldn't be much more effort to toss in a couple of new factions and submitting it to the Total Conversion category.

So I think it's allowed, they're just wanting to encourage teams that make such an effort to go the rest of the way down the field.

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well i guess the patronising was always going to be the bulk of your post as history shows.

That's kind of rude. He's one of the nicest people I have ever come across online. He brought up a good point.

I think i have replied to you before on that idea , anyone with the ability to read can see how contradictory you become at the point where a level playing field for all is hinted upon .

I will one day hope you understand , YOU may not believe Arma gamers deserve or Need V4 , you may believe that in your hands the tools that made arma2 and arma 3 terrains may give you no advantage , I beleive myself and others have reason to disagree .

it this which i refer too when in this post and others i have eluded to Parity , a word that seems lost on you , Neigh masked by you .

What advantage does V4 offer? I have V4 and I haven't used it once to make a terrain because V3 is superior in almost every single way for our purposes. I'm fairly sure you can't even export EMF files from V4 and that is a HUGE part of making a sat map. Globalmapper is the only tool from the whole kit I ever use and it can be bought independently or one can use free QGIS. The terrasim tools aren't magic either. Not to mention Competitions are never fair anyway. Someone always has the advantage in something. Should I be disqualified because you work 40 hours a week and I only work 30 so I have more time? The point is you do your best and hope the judges like it and if they don't you still have something to be proud of because you still probably made a kick ass terrain.

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Well no brainer why you ran from the the skype channel as soon as you heard then maybe to say the same patronising crap ,

" I have V4 and apart from a few advantages , I dont think it will doanyone else any good "

..............................................

Edited by Sealife

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I'm curious about this as well. Me and a friend have had a very very large terrain in the works for a while now, and while it won't be anywhere near good enough in time to enter the competition, if things go well enough I may be able to apply what I'm learning to a smaller terrain for entry, but I'd also noticed the seemingly deliberate exclusion of terrains in the contest.

P.S. - Sealife, set aside Bush's avatar for a moment. Set aside what tools he may have. You do realize you're insulting or attacking or *insert term here* one of the most respected terrainmakers in the community, right? Bush has done more for our little niche than most people around here in a long while, *and* he's a nice guy who has given a very large amount of advice to a whole lot of people. You talk shit because the way you see it, he's "the man", or a part of the establishment, or whatever other ridiculous comparison I can't come up with right now that also fits. The thing is, he earned that little avatar. He was a community member before he was a dev, and he's still a community member even though he's a dev. There are a handful of small things from V4 that we've been drooling over for years, true, but BI has slowly been giving us the equivalent. One of the biggest pains in the ass was road creation, and now they've seriously updated that. No more piece-by-piece crap. If Bush says that V4 doesn't offer a whole lot of advantages over V3, whether you respect the man or not at least have enough sense to know that he's been around long enough to know what he's talking about, please.

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Call the Burn unit sealife needs medical treatment :)

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Call the Burn unit sealife needs medical treatment

Maybe you can enter that in the Healthcare competition.

..............................................

Cheers

Edited by Sealife

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Sealife,

Get over yourself. Attacking Bushlurker is ridiculous just because he has access to/opinions on V4? Go buy VBS2 and you'll have it too. If I submit a terrain using the tools I've invested in, is that fair? If I submit a terrain with visitor scripts I've developed, is that fair? Hey, what if I'm a student and I get 40 hours a week to work on a terrain, is that fair? Oh I'm a professional terrain maker for VBS2 and I'm gonna submit a terrain, is that fair?

There are going to be modders with more money, brains, work ethic than others, get over it. This competition is open to all and it states that in the rules.

To me you come across as a pompous ass who has little respect for those in the community, really why should we value the opinion of someone who's values are so low?

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I like terrains, there, I said it.

Terrains change the game completely, probably more than any other single addon or mod, well almost. They give a new game every time and can be much better than stock terrains.

I appreciate anyone who makes them, I don’t have a favourite terrain maker, here or anywhere else in the wider gaming community. For me they have to be ai friendly, takes a little doing to get right I think (not sure, I don’t make any addons/mods), it also has to be performance reliable, if it isn’t, then its just a tourist resort for me, there has to be plenty of cpu power left for decent ai.

But as said, terrain making must have a place in the competition, or the competition is sort of, un-worthy, seeing that playing the same terrain over and over does not prolong the games life, whereas a good terrain is a new game right there, just my opinion.

Go on BI, do the right thing, terrains should/must be allowed, surely..:D

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To me you come across as a pompous ass who has little respect for those in the community, really why should we value the opinion of someone who's values are so low?

.....................

Edited by Sealife

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Please don't feed the troll ! This guy is trying to set up a flaming war.

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Please don't feed the troll ! This guy is trying to set up a flaming war.

well i guess i dint realise just how Insular a forum this was , comments removed and i leave you all to your little world where anyones contrary opinon is Bullied out and ridiculed wit a succession of name calling and threats .

Good luck to you all in the contest .

Edited by Sealife

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This is a polite request, please stay on topic. We don't appreciate name calling or insults on the forums.

Thanks

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If one was too release a terrain that was included in a 'Total Conversion' mod, lets say, for arguments sake, you made East Timor, followed by the TLDF (Timor-Leste Defence Force), their assets and vehicles etc etc, would that be an option?

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This is interesting for me too, even though events have taken a turn for the worse in the sense I'll have to almost "drop" my current island terrain I'm making for the foreseeable future. :(

Basically it comes down to making a living in the meantime, and with that comes no time left for mod making. It's a very difficult situation and very hard to accept.

In a fantasy world, I would LOVE to be funded for creating a terrain- can you imagine the joy of that..?! Damn, it'd be better than winning the lottery lol. :)

One can dream..!

It does seem very strange there isn't even a "Terrain" section in the competition, but saying that I won't enter anyway as I know it'd just force me to rush something I really want to take my time on.

So, is there any more information regarding the category of Terrains anyway? It seems details on this are hard to come by?

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Ah thanks Tupolov,

Well at least that puts my mind to rest even more, as a few people have contacted me asking if I'm going to submit Nova Zona into this competition, and I really didn't want to for lots of reasons...

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Apparently terrains on their own are not to be submitted.

Hi Tupolov,

Are you able to provide a source for this, it would be really useful to see an official comment/response either here or elsewhere.

Cheers

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I'm still awaiting a Final Official Ruling too!, though an initial unofficial pre-holidays word or two with Dwarden seemed to indicate that the general feeling may be that a traditional basic standalone terrain should indeed count as an "Addon"...

Now the holidays are over I'm hopeful the Big Bosses will get around to providing us with a proper ruling in due course....

B

Edited by Bushlurker

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Hello, sorry for leaving this unattended for a while! I am no Big Boss, but let's hope I'll be of some use here:

Currently we regard terrains as fitting into the Addon category. We also realize the importance of terrain addons, but few months back when we worked on the rules, there were no tools and just one or two attempts to make an Arma 3 terrain so we did not establish a special category. However, as the new terrains are looming out, people are using the Arma data packages and there can even be an A3-compatible tool for making maps available, we can think of establishing the Terrain category or additional prize. No promises though! :)

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Will you give more time for this then, its so late in the day to start if someone did want to build and enter a terrain not long left really to make one, if the terrain makers did want to enter a new terrain it takes a good amount of hours to get that detail.

But its a good move on your part was kind of knocked back to see at first there was not one in the original announcement. also how would it work for adding non bi models in the terrain effect the rules like using opx buildings as an example for having a 3rd party content cheers smokedog.

Edited by SmokeDog3PARA

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