Soldier protection (dev branch)

[oukej 2910]

As a temporary measure, wouldn't setting the units suppression value to 1 each time they get hit be decent enough, the flinch would still look odd but at least they wouldn't be able to shoot as well (preventing the turn around-->headshot).

This has already been implemented in two (or three) ways on the AI level.

- Any hit increases the actual aiming error to maximum. The recovery rate then depends on the skill.

- A hit also increases suppression - proportionally to the damage dealt. (in the beginning we experimented with max. suppression as well, but it caused some problems when suppressing FFV positions)

- An injured unit receives penalties continuously

Imagine:

An AI unit gets hit, looses half of the hitpoints...

- Aiming error gets increased to 1. By itself it would decrease to zero in 2 seconds, but...

- Such hit also causes a 0.5 suppression (or more - some suppression was already caused by the bullet flight). With no other shots incoming the Suppression will decrease to zero in 6 seconds. During those 6 seconds it adds a proportional penalty to the Aiming error.

- And the injury itself adds another penalty to the Aiming error.

Now it really depends on the AI skill if it's Aiming error & Suppression recovery rate is fast enough to stabilize or even overcome the amount of penalties added.

All this should have turned the "360° no scope" into a urban legend. Disclaimer - even with the max. error the AI may still hit you. But that's just pure bad luck and too many bazement kittehs around ur house.

Edited May 13, 2015 by oukej

[Jona33 51]

This has already been implemented in two (or three) ways on the AI level.

- Any hit increases the actual aiming error to maximum. The recovery rate then depends on the skill.

- A hit also increases suppression - proportionally to the damage dealt. (in the beginning we experimented with max. suppression as well, but it caused some problems when suppressing FFV positions)

- An injured unit receives penalties continuously

Imagine:

An AI unit gets hit, looses half of the hitpoints...

- Aiming error gets increased to 1. By itself it would decrease to zero in 2 seconds, but...

- Such hit also causes a 0.5 suppression (or more - some suppression was already caused by the bullet flight). With no other shots incoming the Suppression will decrease to zero in 6 seconds. During those 6 seconds it adds a proportional penalty to the Aiming error.

- And the injury itself adds another penalty to the Aiming error.

Now it really depends on the AI skill if it's Aiming error & Suppression recovery rate is fast enough to stabilize or even overcome the amount of penalties added.

All this should have turned the "360° no scope" into a urban legend. Disclaimer - even with the max. error the AI may still hit you. But that's just pure bad luck and too many bazement kittehs around ur house.

Thanks for the answer, I haven't really been doing a lot of playing recently (mostly mission editor stuff-and swearing at the mission editor :D) so I haven't had a chance to test. Sounds like you've got it sorted though, good work.

[das attorney 857]

All this should have turned the "360° no scope" into a urban legend. Disclaimer - even with the max. error the AI may still hit you. But that's just pure bad luck and too many bazement kittehs around ur house.

Thanks for confirming all that Oukej, I must have missed all that in prev updates.

I was using a chunk of code in a "hit" eh to set fatigue to 1, set courage to 0, add a fired EH with setUnitRecoilCoefficient (random) and disable some of their AI for a few seconds.

I will look forward to deleting that :)

[cosmic10r 2320]

This has already been implemented in two (or three) ways on the AI level.

- Any hit increases the actual aiming error to maximum. The recovery rate then depends on the skill.

- A hit also increases suppression - proportionally to the damage dealt. (in the beginning we experimented with max. suppression as well, but it caused some problems when suppressing FFV positions)

- An injured unit receives penalties continuously

Imagine:

An AI unit gets hit, looses half of the hitpoints...

- Aiming error gets increased to 1. By itself it would decrease to zero in 2 seconds, but...

- Such hit also causes a 0.5 suppression (or more - some suppression was already caused by the bullet flight). With no other shots incoming the Suppression will decrease to zero in 6 seconds. During those 6 seconds it adds a proportional penalty to the Aiming error.

- And the injury itself adds another penalty to the Aiming error.

Now it really depends on the AI skill if it's Aiming error & Suppression recovery rate is fast enough to stabilize or even overcome the amount of penalties added.

All this should have turned the "360° no scope" into a urban legend. Disclaimer - even with the max. error the AI may still hit you. But that's just pure bad luck and too many bazement kittehs around ur house.

Thats great info.

I had a chance to have a look at the reaction times to hits and was able to adjust the reaction with animations. Im not sure it would work seamlessly in game but the AI seem to return to firing very quickly even with ace settings and bis suppression.

This is with ACE ai active.

Default hit

Modded hit

[cosmic10r 2320]

a little more time with it... hardly perfect.. but one day, may be releasable lol

[twisted 127]

It would be a huge step forward if your view would randomly rotate a bit, depending on the impact of the hit. This would make you a bit disorientated when you catch a bullet and it would really make the game more immersive, since it is currently like any other FPS. You are in a firefight, get some hits and keep on firing like nothing happend. My solution would force you to rotate your aim back to your target which would require some time.

If the AI would have to do the same it would be perfect for me.

Nice idea that rewards tactical movement and getting the first shot in.

Still would like to see soldiers including players fall down when hit and damaged above a certain point. Even have them play dead for a while.

[bonchie 39]

This has already been implemented in two (or three) ways on the AI level.

- Any hit increases the actual aiming error to maximum. The recovery rate then depends on the skill.

- A hit also increases suppression - proportionally to the damage dealt. (in the beginning we experimented with max. suppression as well, but it caused some problems when suppressing FFV positions)

- An injured unit receives penalties continuously

Imagine:

An AI unit gets hit, looses half of the hitpoints...

- Aiming error gets increased to 1. By itself it would decrease to zero in 2 seconds, but...

- Such hit also causes a 0.5 suppression (or more - some suppression was already caused by the bullet flight). With no other shots incoming the Suppression will decrease to zero in 6 seconds. During those 6 seconds it adds a proportional penalty to the Aiming error.

- And the injury itself adds another penalty to the Aiming error.

Now it really depends on the AI skill if it's Aiming error & Suppression recovery rate is fast enough to stabilize or even overcome the amount of penalties added.

All this should have turned the "360° no scope" into a urban legend. Disclaimer - even with the max. error the AI may still hit you. But that's just pure bad luck and too many bazement kittehs around ur house.

FYI, I wasn't talking about 360* and no scope from 300 meters. I was talking about CQC and the situation I ran into was me coming through a door, putting 2 shots into a guy (thinking that should be enough), and having him turn around and kill me. I'm just not a fan of having to

Their aim isn't nearly as big of a problem as the amount of shots these guys can take and still be combat effective. Plus the flinching just looks silly. ACE3 fixes some of this at least.

[ratszo 17]

If mission makers avoided plate armour and just dressed out with bandoliers we'd avoid this flinch-flinch-flinch,

--get hit square, you're down.

This pumping 6.5mm shells into a target is silly --he'd be flopping like a fish on the first round to his plate, not returning fire.

Now with dlc & new recoil, everybodies' grabing heavy calibers in PvP --little downside, even in cqc, sure kill.

No great downside on heavy plate either.

5.65mm, great balistics right now, but who would want to use a .223 in this game?

Once shot a bear with a 6.5x55mm softpoint --blew its spinal column in half.

Outfit soldiers without armour, then we get into realism, rounds count.

[bonchie 39]

Outfit soldiers without armour, then we get into realism, rounds count.

That's what the guys I play MP with do when they design missions. Usually the bad guys are rebels, insurgents, of AAF with less armor. So it's not a problem there.

The reason I bumped this thread is that I ventured back into SP for the first time in a year and was surprised that all the same flinch/take 5 shots to kill stuff is still there. Figured that'd of been changed long ago.

[enex 11]

As with fatigue iteration of personal protection is on the way as did sitrep 0114 announced.

I think that feedback ticket number 0005377 summs it up quite well.

If they manage to make vests simulate body armor, meaning that bullet hitting armor insert will save wearer life while hitting unprotected areas would result in death or in bleeding.

Then it comes to a subbject interesting to me with a name of brute force trauma.when bullet hits insert there is tremendius force that can break people bones and cause nasty skin muscle deformation.

That leads to a moments when you hit someone and instead of him actually becoming combat innefective for at least short amount of time, it results in twitch collide reaction.This leads to a twitch bug when body goes in ragdol state and it looks ugly and weird.

Edited July 15, 2015 by enex

[instagoat 133]

Well, the recent sitrep says body armor sim will be improved. http://dev.arma3.com/post/sitrep-00117<- at the bottom of the "OPERATIONS" section.

 

Specifically being targeted is the precision of protection on the character's body. At the moment, wearing a helmet will protect your entire head. In the new version, the helmet will actually only protect the parts of the head it covers. Similarly, body armor with special neck and groin plates make a real difference. The trade off between their weight and added protection will become even more pronounced.

[x3kj 1247]

Its nice to get a final confirmation ^_^ , i was secretly hoping for it ever since the ticket was assigned. I assume that now after the feature-heavy DLC's have been finished, the programmers are free again, so fingers crossed, we might see even more in the feature department.

[-Coulum- 35]

Well, the recent sitrep says body armor sim will be improved. 

 

Good news, I am interested to know just how much this will change things. When you have the time to aim precisely I predict it will make a big difference. But in common firefights, I predict we will find many situations where units take several hits before dying (abeit probably fewer). Not that I am against that. modern body armour is very effective. My main gripe is the speed and behavior of the ai reaction.

 

 

I was talking about CQC and the situation I ran into was me coming through a door, putting 2 shots into a guy (thinking that should be enough), and having him turn around and kill me. 

 

Doesn't sound unreasonable to me. For unarmoured targets let alone armoured. I do think the speed at which hit ai and players react is too fast. But if you assumed 2 shots was enough and moved on, then you deserve to get shot. Shoot it till its dead. Humans are surprisingly resilient. Unless its too the head, I wouldn't rely on any number of shots instantly taking someone out of a CQC fight. 

[roberthammer 582]

Good news indeed - hopefully this new version will be more like a real body armor , nothing like a magical bullet shield

 

and also please do something with that hit animation , it's horrendous  <_<

[old_painless 182]

Well, the recent sitrep says body armor sim will be improved. http://dev.arma3.com/post/sitrep-00117<- at the bottom of the "OPERATIONS" section.

That is good news, hands down. Currently, it makes a huge difference to use 6.<something> as opposed to 5.56. I never go with 5.56 in CQB, or at least you need to be on Full auto so you fire off 2-3 rounds at a time.

 

Bummer about the buildings in the same report. Why not have them all be enterable, and then they can get furniture later on. What they are planning now, buildings are only nice looking cover

[fn_Quiksilver 1633]

That is good news, hands down. Currently, it makes a huge difference to use 6.<something> as opposed to 5.56. I never go with 5.56 in CQB, or at least you need to be on Full auto so you fire off 2-3 rounds at a time.

 

Bummer about the buildings in the same report. Why not have them all be enterable, and then they can get furniture later on. What they are planning now, buildings are only nice looking cover

 

I'd rather have an area of nice tall 3D skyline with non-enterable and semi-enterable buildings than an Altis-like vast sprawl of 1-2 story cookie cutters :)

[DancZer 65]

Does it mean that if we shoot somebody in the face or neck with 9 mm he would collapse as a sack of potatoes?

[froggyluv 2130]

Was just testing shooting VR Buddies in the neck and seeing it register as Vest hit -was depressed but now im not -great news!!

[chortles 263]

Does it mean that if we shoot somebody in the face or neck with 9 mm he would collapse as a sack of potatoes?

So long as they're not wearing neck armor (it exists)... the tricky thing is, how would face protection work now? A relevant question considering that modders have done such.

[roberthammer 582]

Simple - areas that are not covered by the armor , those would be lethal

 

basically a weak points of the body armor - like the sides , neck , limb and some of them have no back armor

 

I think the new version uses FireGeometry lod , in that you add plates and those will protect the body areas

[Roach_ 52]

Does this mean that with this kind of registration, it'd be possible to make bullet wounds actually leave a gunshot wound decal where the bullet hit (and/or exited the body in some cases), instead of the current blood rvmat? Just like when you shoot at a wall, the bullet hole decal appears where the bullet hit.

[chortles 263]

Simple - areas that are not covered by the armor , those would be lethal

 

basically a weak points of the body armor - like the sides , neck , limb and some of them have no back armor

 

I think the new version uses FireGeometry lod , in that you add plates and those will protect the body areas

Not what I meant -- what you described is already implicit in the SITREP, the issue I'm thinking of is about ballistic facewear in such a gear slot.

[roberthammer 582]

 the issue I'm thinking of is about ballistic facewear in such a gear slot.

Ballistic facewear would be as HeadGear and then you could make a firegeometry with the only front face plate and it will use a material rvmat thus making it "bulletproof"

 

same way like tank's armor rvmat

[-Coulum- 35]

Ballistic facewear would be as HeadGear and then you could make a firegeometry with the only front face plate and it will use a material rvmat thus making it "bulletproof"

 

same way like tank's armor rvmat 

 

Is that how you think it will work? Actually simulating the armour pieces as seperate materials? To me the Sitrep seemed to indicate that they were just making it so there are more hitpoints/possibility to create more hitpoints to properly represent exposed/armored places with more precision.

 

In technical terms, the change will let encoders define more hit points per piece of protection and configure how damage is distributed. Samples will of course be updated to reflect this.

 

So for example with a helmet the head would simply have two hitpoints instead of one. Top and bottom. Bottom wouldn't have any protection, top would. But the actual hemet wouldn't really block bullets. And damage calculation would be the same "dampening" effect we have now, rather than actual simulation of penetration/deflection/etc. Though that would be awesome.

 

Or am I misunderstanding what they said? Either way its a still a step up. Glad to see that BI is staying true to to what they said way back. 

[en3x 209]

On July 14, SiTREp 114 posted on Personal Protection.

 

 

We'll also be sharing more details on iterations of Fatigue and Personal Protection soon. These are two of the more hotly debated aspects of the game, so our developers have splendid tweaks in progress. Please do keep reading; we're discussing some important security changes in the sections below.

 

On August 4, SiTREp 117

 

 

Improvements of Personal Protection are being tested internally, and should make their way to Dev-Branch not too long from now. Specifically being targeted is the precision of protection on the character's body. At the moment, wearing a helmet will protect your entire head. In the new version, the helmet will actually only protect the parts of the head it covers. Similarly, body armor with special neck and groin plates make a real difference. The trade off between their weight and added protection will become even more pronounced. In technical terms, the change will let encoders define more hit points per piece of protection and configure how damage is distributed. Samples will of course be updated to reflect this.

 

Month has passed.Any new info on this?

 

Let me guess - New issues appeared as we iterated on Soldier protection and work is currently halted due to expansion focus?

Or perhaps is just summer vacation time that slowed down the process, regardless, I would love to hear more on this topic.Perhaps

in tomorrow sitrep?