Weaponrest, get it in even if AI cant use it

[rangerpl 13]

Nobody cares how AI gets a task done, so long as they get it done. If AI can hit the head of a pin at 800m, who gives a rat's behind they are using weapon resting or not?

QFT.

AI are already absurdly accurate and were so even before BIS gave them the magical ability to calculate ballistics data on the fly (are genius-level IQs required to join the military in 2030?). The "AI can't use it so it shouldn't be in the game" excuse for excluding features is bullshit. Not everyone plays coop.

[Zorg_DK 10]

It baffles me BI haven't made it a priority to give us this simple feature. Everybody wants it. It has been relatively easy (I think) for several modders to do. How many years must we wait? Don't worry about AI having weaponresting, that's not very important.

[VanZant 48]

This is absolutely essential and the AI is irrelevant. They have other magical advantages. On the other hand the problem with addons are failures due to incompatibilities. This is something should be hardcoded in the engine.

[jgaz-uk 130]

zeus use a clientside addon weapon resting that works fine so dont see it would be a problem for bis.

[derdoe 10]

this is then a Nth mirror of this ticket on feedback tracker, is it not?

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=432

Well if BIS doesnt want to implement it, they can just say it. I am quite sure a lot of people would appreciate an official statement why it will not be implemented.

Until then, you ll have to expect more threads of this kind, i think the feedback tracker speaks for itself how many people are keen on having this feature ingame. I mean 2400 people have upvoted this on the feedback tracker so i think its not too much to ask to get an explanation.

[bad benson 1733]

Doubt it. They have been adding and tweaking stuff despite the campaign (fatigue, armour, sway etc.) and bipods would have so little effect on the campaing that I doubt this is the reason they haven't implemented it yet.

well you can hardly compare tweaking values with implementing something like bipods. if done right, and i mean not like in dayZ for only going prone, you need to do some crazy stuff. and i'm not talking about values here, i mean stuff like making the aiming use the bipod as axis etc. sure the only thing bipods might influence campaign wise is player accuracy which could create the need for rebalancing of missions. so yea maybe not game breaking but creating more work. my point was also more about resources. i mean the campaign isn't just not released it's also not done yet. so the whole "maybe after release" should probably be read more like "after release of all campaign episodes". although i'd really like to be surprised on that one ;D

i just don't see them implementing stuff like that while the focus is on getting the campaign out. again. i hope i'm wrong :D

[-Coulum- 35]

Ah I misunderstood you then. I thought you thought that the reason BIS wouldn't implement it was solely for fear of breaking mission balance in the campaign.

so yea maybe not game breaking but creating more work. my point was also more about resources. i mean the campaign isn't just not released it's also not done yet. so the whole "maybe after release" should probably be read more like "after release of all campaign episodes". although i'd really like to be surprised on that one ;D

Yeah I get the impression that doing it to the standards BIS wants requires alot more than what modders have been doing to achieve weapon resting. And right now BIS is focused on campaign, balance and optimization I believe so your right that there is really no way anything is going to be done before the end of the last campaign episode. And even then there will be along period where they are focusing on fixing the campaign bugs so...

Unfortunately they can only do so many things at once.

[bad benson 1733]

And even then there will be along period where they are focusing on fixing the campaign bugs so...

ouch! lol

[Greenfist 1863]

Yeah I get the impression that doing it to the standards BIS wants requires alot more than what modders have been doing to achieve weapon resting.

My thoughts exactly. Mods I've seen so far are quite far from BI's usual standards - even if AI wouldn't be using it at all. (inb4 some smartass with: "What BIS standards? They don't have any.")

And right now BIS is focused on campaign, balance and optimization I believe so your right that there is really no way anything is going to be done before the end of the last campaign episode.

Balance; Why haven't anyone yet brought up the obvious issues on balance if weapon resting is implemented officially? Suddenly effective engagement ranges would go through the roof. You'll have ten times more suitable spots to fire a sniper rifles and MGs steadily. In the current state you have to pick your fire position much more carefully since you can only shoot efficiently in prone and then your line of sight is more likely to be blocked by foliage and terrain. This reduces the real life differences between short range and long range weapons to create more balanced combat. Is it realistic? - probably not, but I think it's necessary in Arma.

I admit; I haven't really played extensively with modded weaponrests, only tried them shortly, so balance might not even be an issue eventually, but I really wanted to throw this aspect into the discussion too.

[10t 12]

Yeah I get the impression that doing it to the standards BIS wants requires alot more than what modders have been doing to achieve weapon resting.

Agreed. I suspect a major sticking point is that the centre of rotation with a bipod should be the bipod pivot point. As much as I love TMR weapon rest - it bugs the heck out of me that I'm still pivoting around the player's torso instead of moving side-to-side to aim.

[bad benson 1733]

My thoughts exactly. Mods I've seen so far are quite far from BI's usual standards - even if AI wouldn't be using it at all. (inb4 some smartass with: "What BIS standards? They don't have any.")

Balance; Why haven't anyone yet brought up the obvious issues on balance if weapon resting is implemented officially? Suddenly effective engagement ranges would go through the roof. You'll have ten times more suitable spots to fire a sniper rifles and MGs steadily. In the current state you have to pick your fire position much more carefully since you can only shoot efficiently in prone and then your line of sight is more likely to be blocked by foliage and terrain. This reduces the real life differences between short range and long range weapons to create more balanced combat. Is it realistic? - probably not, but I think it's necessary in Arma.

I admit; I haven't really played extensively with modded weaponrests, only tried them shortly, so balance might not even be an issue eventually, but I really wanted to throw this aspect into the discussion too.

yea good points there. that's what meant earlier. i think balance is an issue especially when playing against AI. you will simply kill more no matter if they have weapon resting (how would that even work?!) or are less accurate because you will simply be more accurate when stationary which is how a lot of battles are fought in arma. at least that is what i noticed in coop even from back in arma 2 where it was way easier to hit stuff. people tend to stay on hills and try to engage from "safe" distances. i really welcomed the more "challenging" shooting in arma 3.

not trying to make a point against weapon resting though ;)

[rübe 127]

and the AI is irrelevant.

:butbut:

No. The AI is certainly relevant too. Maybe not so much for (gained) accuracy (which they supposedly don't need). But there is more to using weapon resting than accuracy alone: most importantly the pose. An AI that uses weapon resting properly exposes far less of its body (to be shot at) than an AI that just stands there, shooting from the hips.

Second point: immersion.

[roshnak 41]

No. The AI is certainly relevant too. Maybe not so much for (gained) accuracy (which they supposedly don't need). But there is more to using weapon resting than accuracy alone: most importantly the pose. An AI that uses weapon resting properly exposes far less of its body (to be shot at) than an AI that just stands there, shooting from the hips.

Second point: immersion.

AI should be using cover appropriately regardless of weapon resting. In fact, weapon resting shouldn't really have an effect on how the AI uses cover at all. As for your second point for the most part, you wouldn't even be able to tell if the AI had "enabled" weapon resting from a purely visual standpoint. They already stand near cover with their weapons close to surfaces.

Agreed. I suspect a major sticking point is that the centre of rotation with a bipod should be the bipod pivot point. As much as I love TMR weapon rest - it bugs the heck out of me that I'm still pivoting around the player's torso instead of moving side-to-side to aim.

Weapon resting is not the same thing as deploying a bipod. It's just stabilizing your weapon against a surface, it's not stuck to the surface you're resting it on. You should be able to freely move it without pivoting around any specific point. Furthermore, do bipods even commonly pivot freely? All of the bipods I have seen have been rigid.

Edit: I seem to recall I44 or something had a weapon resting mechanic whereby the weapon was automatically stabilized if it was near a surface. That was great.

Edited December 14, 2013 by roshnak

[progamer 14]

My thoughts exactly. Mods I've seen so far are quite far from BI's usual standards - even if AI wouldn't be using it at all. (inb4 some smartass with: "What BIS standards? They don't have any.")

Balance; Why haven't anyone yet brought up the obvious issues on balance if weapon resting is implemented officially? Suddenly effective engagement ranges would go through the roof. You'll have ten times more suitable spots to fire a sniper rifles and MGs steadily. In the current state you have to pick your fire position much more carefully since you can only shoot efficiently in prone and then your line of sight is more likely to be blocked by foliage and terrain. This reduces the real life differences between short range and long range weapons to create more balanced combat. Is it realistic? - probably not, but I think it's necessary in Arma.

I admit; I haven't really played extensively with modded weaponrests, only tried them shortly, so balance might not even be an issue eventually, but I really wanted to throw this aspect into the discussion too.

It should be realistic, if the mission maker does not want it, then we could have options to disable it. But it should be realistic as people voted for and not artificially modified for some sort of stupid balance.

---------- Post added at 06:01 ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 ----------

BI doesn't care about having something realistic affecting some sort of balance. That's the mission makers job. The thing that holds things back are the AI.

[WhiskeySixx 10]

Most bipods have a limited swivel top.. my AR15 has about 45 degrees of turn on both left and right.

[roshnak 41]

Most bipods have a limited swivel top.. my AR15 has about 45 degrees of turn on both left and right.

Rotation on the horizontal plane?

Also, people who don't work for BI should probably not make statements about what BI cares about.

[codarl 1]

Nobody cares how AI gets a task done, so long as they get it done. If AI can hit the head of a pin at 800m, who gives a rat's behind they are using weapon resting or not?

Its like requesting an artillery or air strike in Arma. You call up the firebase or airborne assets through the command menu and click on the target coordinates ... does anyone ever sit at their monitor offended at the absurdity of using a scroll menu and a mouse click in the battlefield to direct a strike?

Hehehe, I remember how the FDFmod for OFP had you type in the coördinates, number of rounds, dispersion, etc. in a console. That was fun in it's own way.

[roshnak 41]

Yeah, this mod was inspired by CoC Unified Artillery

I had it working in Arma 2 but the author never really got it into a releasable state (He really hates sqf).

Still, it was way cool, and frankly a better setup than doing it through the command menu.

[semiconductor 309]

Just found this screenshot in DayZ's Steam Hub:

Well, it seems that bipods are already implemented well enough in DayZ since BI have put them even into an alpha version. I guess that kinda explains why Arma 3 have so many placeholders, copy-pasted content and lacks some important features. :(

Edited December 17, 2013 by Semiconductor

[13islucky 10]

Does anyone here even have DayZ? If so, can we know how it is implemented? I mean, it's kind of pointless to argue over something we don't even know anything about apart from the fact that it exists.

[krazikilla 5]

Does anyone here even have DayZ? If so, can we know how it is implemented? I mean, it's kind of pointless to argue over something we don't even know anything about apart from the fact that it exists.

Yes and Yes. But its just implemented when u are prone.

Also most here, arent even talkin about bipods yet directly. A simply weapon-rest would do (on every surface)

[semiconductor 309]

Does anyone here even have DayZ? If so, can we know how it is implemented? I mean, it's kind of pointless to argue over something we don't even know anything about apart from the fact that it exists.

I'm not saying that bipods in DayZ are implemented extremely well and realistic, what I meant to say is that they seems to be working well enough to be put in a game which has "Warning: this game is early access alpha. Please do not purchase it unless..." note on its store page. Arma series even after all those years, releases, patches and two thousand votes on Feedback Tracker still don't have bipods, even badly implemented ones. Edited December 17, 2013 by Semiconductor

[roshnak 41]

Also most here, arent even talkin about bipods yet directly. A simply weapon-rest would do (on every surface)

Indeed. And it wouldn't even be as difficult as some in this thread are suggesting.

Edit:

A simple weapon rest on every surface is much more difficult to implement than a complicated bipod while prone.

I'll grant that it's more difficult than only deploying while prone, but that doesn't make it actually hard to do.

Edited December 18, 2013 by roshnak

[Deadfast 43]

Also most here, arent even talkin about bipods yet directly. A simply weapon-rest would do (on every surface)

A simple weapon rest on every surface is much more difficult to implement than a complicated bipod while prone.

[surfer 42]

It's about time Arma3 is getting a vanilla weaponrest. Come on BIS, don't make us wait for Arma6!