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Just remember many of us consider this as a casual/fun game rather than a full blown realism simulator.

 

Yes i know and i fully respect that. But you can simple disable fatigue system! (or buy DOOM or SIMS)! 

 

Why do you want ruin my enjoy, because it would, when we both can enjoing with the game?  

 

But yes it's true, the implementation is under construction, maybe BIS listen to all that things...i hope. 

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Just remember many of us consider this as a casual/fun game rather than a full blown realism simulator.

There are so many casual games out there, why change the only one that is not like that?

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There are so many casual games out there, why change the only one that is not like that?

Because there at ealready fully established systems and add-ons in place for hardcore Sim communities to use that are even better than current implementations of real life actions (recoil/fatigue etc? )

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Because there at ealready fully established systems and add-ons in place for hardcore Sim communities to use that are even better than current implementations of real life actions (recoil/fatigue etc? )

 

You have to realize that all this addons needed to be downloaded, updated, keep in check, required for everyone to have.Then you have mod conflicting with each other

admin upkeep of server...That is why vannila Arma built in system (not scripted like for example ACE functionality) are what everyone have and have best performance (comparing with multiple mods)

 

That is why I wouldn't casualize arma to suit my taste - Arma has already identity of it's own.Bullet ballistics, Advanced flight model, PhyX intergration, slingloading,

fatigue/stamina etc...

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You have to realize that all this addons needed to be downloaded, updated, keep in check, required for everyone to have.Then you have mod conflicting with each other

admin upkeep of server...That is why vannila Arma built in system (not scripted like for example ACE functionality) are what everyone have and have best performance (comparing with multiple mods)

 

That is why I wouldn't casualize arma to suit my taste - Arma has already identity of it's own.Bullet ballistics, Advanced flight model, PhyX intergration, slingloading,

fatigue/stamina etc...

The biggest communities are Altis Life and KOTH in my opinion. The devs should first cater to these as a business plan, then ALLOW hardcore communities to turn it up a notch....not force it onto the rest of us. I paid for the game aswell but I am interested in different gamemodes than hardcore players, though I often will enjoy hardcore modes, I enjoy casual gamemodes like Altis Life all the much more.

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The biggest communities are Altis Life and KOTH in my opinion. The devs should first cater to these as a business plan, then ALLOW hardcore communities to turn it up a notch....not force it onto the rest of us. I paid for the game aswell but I am interested in different gamemodes than hardcore players, though I often will enjoy hardcore modes, I enjoy casual gamemodes like Altis Life all the much more.

 

This is my last post about this topic on this thread and I will say this:

 

Bohemians shouldn't cater to biggest communities.Not the hardcore not to anyone.And not as hell to me.

They should do what they did with their first game - do what they want to do.And stay faithful to it.That's it.

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The biggest communities are Altis Life and KOTH in my opinion. The devs should first cater to these as a business plan, then ALLOW hardcore communities to turn it up a notch....not force it onto the rest of us. I paid for the game aswell but I am interested in different gamemodes than hardcore players, though I often will enjoy hardcore modes, I enjoy casual gamemodes like Altis Life all the much more.

 

Maybe this is the case and maybe BIS should cater to them. But that would be quite easy: Allow mission designers to turn off stamina for KotH, Altis Life, Battle Royal etc. so their players don't have to bother with stamina.

Fun fact: This is allready possible, so catering done! No need to trash the old stamina system (in wich BiS has put in a lot of work and refinement) for players who do not care about stamina anyways. And no need to anger the milsim-/more tactical focused community.

 

The sum of people who fall into the category "did not buy Arma3 because Altis Life (etc.) had stamina disabled, but would totally buy if it had a verry simple/non restricitve fatigue system in those scenarios" can't be too big. And: BiS ALLOWS theAltis Life (etc.)-Community (respective the creators of those scenarios/mods) allready to implement their own simplified fatigue system if they deem it necessary.

Should be easyer to modify a handful of popular scenarios/mods than to change every single one of thousands of custom scenarios/modsets for the milsim-community.

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Bohemians shouldn't cater to biggest communities.Not the hardcore not to anyone.And not as hell to me.

They should do what they did with their first game - do what they want to do.And stay faithful to it.That's it.

You win this thread harder than anyone on either side of the issue.

@RiE and people: come up with a stamina system so good that your critics will like it more than the current fatigue system, they've already burned out of anything useful for you to account for and are just fighting each other at this point over which of them is your favorite child. (Any insight on the 'fatigue/relative stamina conversion' if you're letting the old fatigue commands back in?)

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Maybe this is the case and maybe BIS should cater to them. But that would be quite easy: Allow mission designers to turn off stamina for KotH, Altis Life, Battle Royal etc. so their players don't have to bother with stamina.

Fun fact: This is allready possible, so catering done! No need to trash the old stamina system (in wich BiS has put in a lot of work and refinement) for players who do not care about stamina anyways. And no need to anger the milsim-/more tactical focused community.

 

The sum of people who fall into the category "did not buy Arma3 because Altis Life (etc.) had stamina disabled, but would totally buy if it had a verry simple/non restricitve fatigue system in those scenarios" can't be too big. And: BiS ALLOWS theAltis Life (etc.)-Community (respective the creators of those scenarios/mods) allready to implement their own simplified fatigue system if they deem it necessary.

Should be easyer to modify a handful of popular scenarios/mods than to change every single one of thousands of custom scenarios/modsets for the milsim-community.

Well I mean as far as I know we can't disable the already harsh sway, and isn't the new stamina system going to allow to use the older fatigue model if wanted?

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Well I mean as far as I know we can't disable the already harsh sway, and isn't the new stamina system going to allow to use the older fatigue model if wanted?

 

As far as i am aware, the "baseline" of sway when the character is rested is the same in the old and in the new system. Both systems only controll how a player gets tired, thus increasing his sway from this baseline.

If fatigue (old system) is disabled, characters never get tired and do not increase their sway. Same goes for stamina (new system): the character won't get tired and increase the sway as long as he does not sprint.

 

 

As for the ability to use the old fatigue system, they said this:

Our programmers again stepped in and created engine hooks and a series of commands allowing players to approximate the old system instead.

 

This roughly translates to: Fatigue will be gone. But there will be commands that can be used to create scripts and mods to get something similar to the old behaviour.

So someone in the community will have to take the time and effort to recreate something along the lines of fatigue. Bear in mind this is going to be tricky since the config values for the ols fatigue system (wich took BiS months to get right) will most likely get lost in the proces, thus modders will be required to test out what values work best and basically start from scratch.

And we will probably get seven different variants of recreated fatigue scripts and/or mods wich is fun for people playing in different communities.

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As for the ability to use the old fatigue system, they said this:

This roughly translates to: Fatigue will be gone. But there will be commands that can be used to create scripts and mods to get something similar to the old behaviour.

So someone in the community will have to take the time and effort to recreate something along the lines of fatigue. Bear in mind this is going to be tricky since the config values for the ols fatigue system (wich took BiS months to get right) will most likely get lost in the proces, thus modders will be required to test out what values work best and basically start from scratch.

And we will probably get seven different variants of recreated fatigue scripts and/or mods wich is fun for people playing in different communities.

 

Actually, they also posted this :

 

 

It's possible that even after the next weeks of iterations, you still feel the mechanic does not fit with your vision of Arma. To cater to this, we're creating a sample mod that demonstrates how to set up the game close to what it is in main branch now, but also enables you to tweak it further to your liking.

http://dev.arma3.com/post/sitrep-00128

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Because there at ealready fully established systems and add-ons in place for hardcore Sim communities to use that are even better than current implementations of real life actions (recoil/fatigue etc? )

 

Just for your information, not everyone uses ACE or any other of those realism mod and still wants to play an authentic experience and not with a system that is borrowed from Call of Duty

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To me, the dev branch stamina system is way too overboard. I'm fatigued with an mk18 and 13 mags, no backpack in under a minute, and have to lay down for another minute just to stabilize aim. That is with the new stamina.

 

Do you known how much weight that translate into kg/pounds?? (M59 Ball: - 393 gr * 20 rounds * 14 mags + EBR + acessories + normal loadout ) Its normal to recover to stabilize aim or use ative/passive rest (bipod/surfaces) when shooting.

 

Some players look like Morpheus ("Do you think that's air you're breathing?"). It´s hard to please both Greeks and Trojans, one way is to have multiple types of fatigue depending on the difficulty (Novice;...;Elite)

 

I use the Arma as a extension of my hobby and i wanna feel when im playing it should be like IRL.

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Just remember many of us consider this as a casual/fun game rather than a full blown realism simulator.

 

Remember, there are people who don't. I don't see why the "casual/fun game" crew who disables fatigue anyway should be given precedence to the more serious players when said casual gamers, well, disable the fatigue anyway?

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Because there at ealready fully established systems and add-ons in place for hardcore Sim communities to use that are even better than current implementations of real life actions (recoil/fatigue etc? )

Well why don't the casuals download these mods and let the hardcore gamers play the game vanilla?

 

If a game mode like King of the Hill or Wasteland wants to modify the default stamina system to allow for pack mules to jog everywhere, why not have these require modding? They tinker with the fatigue system anyway. Leave the old one in place for those that want a more realistic approach.

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after playing the new stamina for a while i think it'd actually be cool if a few tweaks were made.

 

1. heavy carried weights (over half weight bar) should cause jogging (not just sprinting) to slowly lose stamina. the heavier the weight the faster the stamina should be consumed while jogging but never as fast as sprinting consumes it. jogging should never regen stamina (just like it is now). jogging with normal/light weights should not consume stamina so choosing the right loadout is crucial.

 

2. I love the idea of having the aim of weapon to settle. But settling of aim after jogging should happen a bit faster and be tied to overall stamina level. even faster when using support against a wall or bipods. and the movement of the sway should be smaller when supported/bipoded and actually different as you're resting the weapon on something for stability so the sway would be more at the shoulder side of the rifle due to breathing.

 

3. crouch sprinting should consume more stamina that sprinting. and be a little slower than it is. Right now crouch sprint is just 1km/h slower than full standing sprinting despite being much more difficult stance.

 

4. breathing noises while running.

 

5. noticeable breathing noises while in scope so you can see the relationship between breathing and rise/fall of scope. right now the rise and fall seems arbitrary.

 

6. fix the inconsistencies/ illogical things like dropping items increasing amount on stamina available (it should rather increase the total possible pool of stamina but that needs to be regened like usual)

 

7. visual slowing down of characters (with proper animations not simply slow mo-ing existing anims) would be good for observing your own team or enemy fatigue state. collapsing from exhaustion should be a thing.

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how about when you use up stamina you get more and more into tunnel vision and lose situational awareness, 

instead of slowing down, i mean with al the pain in the world unless you get cramps or trip on something its not going to

stop you from running normaly just in a lot of pain, however you should get more prone to injury, lets say you loose health a bit  ? 

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how about when you use up stamina you get more and more into tunnel vision and lose situational awareness, 

instead of slowing down, i mean with al the pain in the world unless you get cramps or trip on something its not going to

stop you from running normaly just in a lot of pain, however you should get more prone to injury, lets say you loose health a bit  ? 

You obviously never ever experienced what physical exhaustion is.

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Look i maybe have not done marches with 20 kg on my back 

but i sure did do 8h of physical activity with no stoping,

it is definetly a mental game.

i mean i was not the happiest person of all of those 8h but i did chug along. 

 

Now if you mean did i starve my muscles of oxygen, fluids , salts or fuel , i did not .

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GTA V uses health system so if you run much you start to lose health. I can understand the logic because you could exhaust yourself so you faint if you really push and have right mentality but it doesn't feel good system in my opinion because losing health is way too extreme. People will likely slow down and/or find cover before that happens. Also you naturally start to slow down from the full speed no matter what.

At least I don't feel health decrease to be a good system. Accidentally pushing too far and you start to ask medic to patch you up :D

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I think this is a great improvement into the gameplay adding a new system based in the combo sprint-stamina.

 

Now we can jog to the targets and run from point to point.

 

And for the players based on realims, you can create de ultimate mod to simulate your fatigue using a mod, to me is a perfect solution.

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Just want to post here to affirm that I do not like the direction that the new Stamina system is going. I don't think it is -- yet -- irredeemable as it isn't currently in its final state.

 

Some of the justifications being offered for the changes are also a little problematic. I.e:

 

Despite that we understand this as a sort of step back from the mil sim authenticity, we have also recognized that Arma is a platform for a much wider range of gaming experience, that we should respect one of the most fundamental standards in game industry and, most importantly, not to confuse the vast majority of our players.

To be honest, I bought into the ArmA franchise because it wasn't CoD or BF and offered a realistic system of action/fatigue that required a thoughtful approach. So yes, the present proposed system is a definate step back from wher I have always assumed ArmA was positioned in the gaming space.

 

The comments WRT the MANW and Gamemode/Missions having the fatigue system disabled are irrelevant. It is unlikely that they will enable the new Stamina system either as this is pretty much anathema to the whole run & gun one-man army that the majority of the currently available public gamemodes seem to encourage. That the Devs seem to be placing their entire focus on the needs of this group is extremely unsettling.

 

IMO it can be redeemed if we are given full access via MODding to the underlying system, including access to applying it to all movement modes and stances as necessary.

 

Nothing I've said here, or can possibly say, has not been said better by other posters. I just don't want to be seen as silently assenting to the current changes. I just hope that if there isn't some accommodation and/or reconsideration in the approach that I don't have to wait too long for a MOD to appear that 'fixes' this problem where there was none to begin with.

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Modding the fatigue system to something usable is a crutch. Sure, it's good at least that option is still available, but a) we shouldn't have to do this and b) it will always have limitations. "You can mod it" is a convenient excuse brought up all the time for something that is broken. And I do consider the stamina system broken until it accounts for stamina loss for jogging, because it does not make any goddam sense to be able to jog everywhere.

 

And before people start to come up with the old "I can jog farther than that" argument, remember that Arma is scaled down. Heck, Chernogorsk is supposed to be the capital and is smaller than the town I live in by at least a factor of ten. Everything is scaled down, and so is the distances. And the distance you can jog. So, whatever you say, the old fatigue system makes perfect sense.

 

I do not see why there cannot be two systems like with the Advanced flight model. Keep the original fatigue system around, and allow for a simplified, sprint-only system for the casuals. Problem solved. You don't need to "maintain two systems", just disable parts of the "complex" system to dumb it down. At least that would keep everyone happy, instead of having to sacrifice one for the other and tell them to go "mod themselves".

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