Fatigue Feedback (dev branch)

[raspu86 92]

The point about the whole fatigue system is that it adds a whole new layer to the gameplay. You actually have to manage your stamina now and be aware of your movement. To be honest I was sick and tired about people sprinting all the time or running around crouched. These are movement types which are used for certain situations in combat only but not as standard stance. So fatigue system + the impact of your stance on fatigue is really really awesome and I would be quiet sad if it would get nerfed even more.

The system itself is rather complex and most people (aka public players) are used to just grabing a gun and sprint to the objective. They will need to adapt. In the end I hope we will see a lot more realistic combat due to people not sprinting all the time and maybe even an increase in cooperation on public servers since you can't grab tons of stuff anymore.

For people who play in a group the new system is god sent and a adds another layer of realism to the game.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Raspu86

[auscleaver 12]

I don't mind the fatigue system as such although it would be good to have the option to tone it down. Totally disabling fatigue is not an option as far as I'm concerned. I've played a few times since the new systems were introduced and from my perspective the game has lost a great deal of its shine. If your playing co-op with a large group that use vehicles and air assets the new system would be ok but for my group and I dare say many others we have between 2-8 players which leaves you in the realm of not being able to complete even some of the basic missions that are available. Switch this to single player and you have next to no hope unless you spend two to three hours traveling two kilometers and are up against maybe 10 -12 AI without any vehicles. Ok I exaggerated a little but you get the picture. I for one will most likely shy away from playing in the future if the systems for fatigue and weapon sway stay the same, I have owned most of the earlier titles but never really gotten into it until Arma 3 come along so I'm one of the new kids so to speak, I've put in nearly 1000 hours and didn't have any real issues with the way the game was before this patch. Post patch is impossible to play single player or in small groups. If they had a slide setting that we could adjust for these systems it would accommodate all the player base. I'm all for more realism but not at the expense of enjoyable game play.

[DancZer 65]

30 seconds with what gear?

It takes about 3 min 30 sec if you have a heavy loadout. 15 seconds if you have nothing but a blue baseball cap on. (In prone)

With heavy gear you can max your fatigue in 10 seconds. So the fatigue can take 21 times longer to wear off than to gain it.

It seems fine to me.

Edit: If there are isn't any bug related to cooldown/increase.

[Smurf 12]

tl;dr

ADAPT.

[faire 10]

...

I have had few games too, I do not play online too, and I had no problem. Could you be more specific about what went wrong and in what situations?

[Ckrauslo 12]

They sprinted no more than 35 meters, didn't ran to fast, already in fatigue and gasping for air .....

[jandrews 116]

In reading most of everyone's posts it seems people don't mind or seem to like this change. I frankly think it stinks and playing certain game modes like King of the hill this change really makes the game play less fun. Of the 2 I'd rather have the previous. At least you could run more than 30 meters without slowing to a walk and having the gun sway so bad you cant even shoot. I have played with 3 AA rockets, tube, carryall, 4 nades, zafir and 2 belts, prior I could actually get decent distance w/out having to rest, now I cant even get to the next house w/out having to walk and be more exposed. Also, I noticed my fatigue is basically the same when I used all rockets, ditched the tube and carryall and just ran with gun/ammo. I think this needs some reconsideration, IMO this is a PC game with milsim gameplay. However this is not real life and if your going to add stuff like go-carts in a milsim game than having a fatigue system that hinders game play and turns people away its going in the wrong direction. At the end of the day, people want to have fun and play a PC game not have to worry about how their fatigue is going to hinder their fun. I don't mind the wt limits of backpacks and having to rest, hence returning to the previous fatigue. But this update IMO SUCKS!! Please change it back.

[Jona33 51]

In reading most of everyone's posts it seems people don't mind or seem to like this change. I frankly think it stinks and playing certain game modes like King of the hill this change really makes the game play less fun. Of the 2 I'd rather have the previous. At least you could run more than 30 meters without slowing to a walk and having the gun sway so bad you cant even shoot. I have played with 3 AA rockets, tube, carryall, 4 nades, zafir and 2 belts, prior I could actually get decent distance w/out having to rest, now I cant even get to the next house w/out having to walk and be more exposed. Also, I noticed my fatigue is basically the same when I used all rockets, ditched the tube and carryall and just ran with gun/ammo. I think this needs some reconsideration, IMO this is a PC game with milsim gameplay. However this is not real life and if your going to add stuff like go-carts in a milsim game than having a fatigue system that hinders game play and turns people away its going in the wrong direction. At the end of the day, people want to have fun and play a PC game not have to worry about how their fatigue is going to hinder their fun. I don't mind the wt limits of backpacks and having to rest, hence returning to the previous fatigue. But this update IMO SUCKS!! Please change it back.

You're carrying a ridiculous weight, take a zafir, or take a launcher with an ordinary rifle (preferably a carbine.) Not both, the Zafir alone weights about 15lbs and the ammo isn't going to be light. (2 belts is like carrying 10 ordinary magazines, of 7.62mm as well.

[jandrews 116]

My response is its a PC game. I could with the prior fatigue system just fine. I don't play this game for a "real life" mind set. I also don't need to count the wt's of items so I can run from house to house w/out having to go prone and rest for 2 minutes.

[Alwarren 2765]

My response is its a PC game.

Yes, and one of its features is to try and model real-life combat. You prefer a more arcadey style? Well I don't. As I said before, game modes that are better off without fatigue can disable it.

I am happy about the changes, and I hope they stay like they are.

[Smurf 12]

My response is its a PC game. I could with the prior fatigue system just fine. I don't play this game for a "real life" mind set. I also don't need to count the wt's of items so I can run from house to house w/out having to go prone and rest for 2 minutes.

Yes it is a PC game. But it's one called ARMA ;)

And really - mods, enablefatigue, tweaks on DevBranch, ((much probably weapon resting coming (also mods))) - what is the hurry? Hold on, take a breath, ADAPT.

And welcome to Arma.

[jandrews 116]

Yes, and one of its features is to try and model real-life combat. You prefer a more arcadey style? Well I don't. As I said before, game modes that are better off without fatigue can disable it.

I am happy about the changes, and I hope they stay like they are.

one of its features is to try and model real-life combat --- thanks for the laugh!

---------- Post added at 23:05 ---------- Previous post was at 23:03 ----------

Yes it is a PC game. But it's one called ARMA ;)

And really - mods, enablefatigue, tweaks on DevBranch, ((much probably weapon resting coming (also mods))) - what is the hurry? Hold on, take a breath, ADAPT.

And welcome to Arma.

I get the sarcasm.

what is the hurry? Hold on, take a breath, ADAPT --- is this the model for the recent change in fatigue system or BIS?

[Chocolate 1]

They sprinted no more than 35 meters, didn't ran to fast, already in fatigue and gasping for air .....

Hey! I was attached to those guys during this video. Funny as f*ck to see video from that up here. I was up with Bravo company at the time this video was made. 2nd Recon are some badasses.

[Ckrauslo 12]

Hey! I was attached to those guys during this video. Funny as f*ck to see video from that up here. I was up with Bravo company at the time this video was made. 2nd Recon are some badasses.

So do you agree with the complains about the fatigue that doesn't let you run more than 100 meters at 20km per hour with more than 90 punds of gear?

[Bouben 3]

I hate to say it but now I know what it feels like when people from a different gaming background are invading "your" game that you play for so many years (since 2001). I have never felt it before in the series and probably neither in any other game.

1.24 fatigue system is one of the best features in the series and now we have these (relatively) new players with a completely different taste in gaming that are influencing the game because for them the new system is "too unfriendly", "too difficult", "not fun" and so on.

BIS will have to choose if they want to please everybody and nobody at the same time or a particular group of players with a particular taste in gaming. While Arma players like me don't have many alternatives where to go (if Arma is going to be "crippled" - in my point of view) the other side of players has almost too many games left to play in order to please their gaming needs. So this "crippling" feels as a bit unnecessary decision, in my opinion.

Please, note that I am not in any way claiming that a different taste in gaming than mine is wrong or inferior (I love particular arcade games too). I just say I feel my hobby is being seriously damaged and limited and those who know my opinions on the forums already probably know that I would not write such words in just whatever occasion.

This is indeed starting to be serious for me. Not comfortable situation at all.

This has always been a very special game for gamers with a very specific taste in gaming (not supposed to sound elitist - sorry if it does anyway).

[vegeta897 13]

My response is its a PC game. I could with the prior fatigue system just fine. I don't play this game for a "real life" mind set.

Hey buddy, guess what, I don't play the game to feel like a real life soldier either. If you think the new fatigue system was only added for realism's sake, you either haven't read very much about it or have very little imagination (or both). It is entirely meant to enhance the gameplay. Everything BIS adds or changes to the game is for gameplay.

Which sounds more like depthful ARMA gameplay to you?

1. You can run around as much as you like no matter how much gear you're holding. There is never any point to choosing an SMG in your kit, because you can just as easily carry a rifle that does much more damage, and not be penalized at all by the extra weight.

2. Every piece of gear you choose to pick up has an effect on your performance and capabilities in the field. There are distinct advantages and disadvantages to your choices. Carrying a launcher lets you take out armor but lowers your effectiveness in infantry combat. Carrying an SMG lowers your effective range and damage but lets you outmaneuver your enemy in a CQB environment. This is called dynamic and depthful gameplay. It's what the entire ARMA series has always been about. It has fuck-all to do with realism. It's about better gameplay. It gives value to player choice. Yeah, you could always choose to carry a light loadout before, but there was no actual point to it, thus making it a totally superficial choice. Now that choice actually has a valid strategy to go with it. This far outweighs the choices you may have lost in the patch, namely overloading yourself with gear and expecting to be just as mobile as normal.

The fact that you could get away with it before the patch means nothing, other than an indication that things are different now, and it's for the better.

Edited July 19, 2014 by vegeta897

[-Coulum- 35]

My response is its a PC game. ... I don't play this game for a "real life" mind set.

I will not try to argue or convince you how the fatigue system helps add depth and complexity which then makes gameplay more interesting. I will simply agree: yes this is a pc game. Perhaps not the pc game for you though...

[Chocolate 1]

I think the fatigue system is pretty damn good. Its a nice average of what you would expect a soldier to do. I have problems with its level of effect on the sight/scope sway, but that, I think, is for a different thread.

[-Coulum- 35]

Well the sway itself is for another thread, but I do think that the way fatigue effects sway is good. As is, after a short jog sway increases significantly. And then drops of fairly quickly. This is good because even a short jog will get the blood pumping and increase respiratory levels, therefore decresing stability, if only for a short period. Before sway built up more slowly and this was bad becasue even after a few sprints, your aim was virtually unaffected. It really makes you think about whether it is worth it or not to sprint now.

[the_demongod 31]

Loving the fatigue, I think it's too bad that all the Zafir-carrying Titan-wielding Carryall-toting Wasteland players are constantly bitching about how they can't sprint across Stratis anymore.

Anyways,

A while back I drew up some tables of weight for a few basic BLUFOR infantry classes.

I got the weights from real life objects (wikipedia, my scales, etc) so they may not be perfectly true to the game's weights but I thought you guys might be interested in it just from a fatigue standpoint.

My plans were to gather enough data so that I could load myself up with the different weights and see how hard it was to carry them, but I still haven't really gotten around to it :P

Feel free to PM me with questions, comments, etc.

Weight Work

Cheers.

[-Coulum- 35]

I think it's too bad that all the Zafir-carrying Titan-wielding Carryall-toting Wasteland players are constantly bitching about how they can't sprint across Stratis anymore.

Actually I haven't hear that much of that. I think that the average wasteland/dayz player actually like depth and complexity alot more than you might give them credit for.

[Greenfist 1863]

At least you could run more than 30 meters without slowing to a walk and having the gun sway so bad you cant even shoot. I have played with 3 AA rockets, tube, carryall, 4 nades, zafir and 2 belts, prior I could actually get decent distance w/out having to rest, now I cant even get to the next house w/out having to walk and be more exposed. Also, I noticed my fatigue is basically the same when I used all rockets, ditched the tube and carryall and just ran with gun/ammo.

You are doing something wrong (other than trying to run a marathon with 45 kg gear). Because even if you're carrying the absolute maximum weight, you know, when you can't throw even one more glowstick in the backpack although there's still room in it, you are able to run at least 250m before reaching 50% fatigue level. (That's way before the edges of the screen start to darken.) Or you can sprint about 75 meters.

[-Coulum- 35]

I do agree with you about the results actually and I think its cool that Bohemia is trying to make long range engagements more challenging I just don't agree with the way they are doing it.

He could be running up hill. That does tire you much quicker. But more likely its just exaggerating while playing the wrong game. Yes I probably sound elitist but JAndrews how you're complaining is like me coming to quake game and arguing for realism. I would most definitely be barking up the wrong tree, just as you are. If you really love every other aspect of arma except for the fatigue well maybe it is worth it to learn to make a mod that disables fatigue. Or hope BIS makes it a difficulty option. But I think a large majority of the community and most importantly, the devs themselves, want fatigue to have an actually effect in the game. So... yeah. You might be in the wrong place.

[Variable 322]

have played with 3 AA rockets, tube, carryall, 4 nades, zafir and 2 belts, prior I could actually get decent distance w/out having to rest,

Until the fatigue change, that was about the only game on earth that allowed you to carry such weight. Do you realise that with that much stuff on you wouldn't be able to stand up on your feet? Let alone fight? That was a broken system and now it's fixed, thanks to BIS.

Last Thursday (stable) we were spotted in open grounds by a superior force and had to disengage. Two of us were too heavy and had to ditch some of their equipment so they could keep up. That was a great GAMEPLAY moment that would not be possible without the new fatigue system. Suddenly any curve in the ground meant more than it used to be and we had to carefully plan our movement and stoops to catch our breath until we reached cover. It was great! Remember that Nazi radar station assault scene in Saving Private Ryan? Before they attacked they unpacked and took only what's necessary, ammo and grenades. Now the game demands you to recreate such planning and thinking and this is wonderful!

BIS! You made the game even more Arma! Don't get let down! Keep the faith!

[-Coulum- 35]

Last Thursday (stable) we were spotted in open grounds by a superior force and had to disengage. Two of us were too heavy and had to ditch some of their equipment so they could keep up. That was a great GAMEPLAY moment that would not be possible without the new fatigue system. Suddenly any curve in the ground meant more than it used to be and we had to carefully plan our movement and stoops to catch our breath until we reached cover. It was great! Remember that Nazi radar station assault scene in Saving Private Ryan? Before they attacked they unpacked and took only what's necessary, ammo and grenades. Now the game demands you to recreate such planning and thinking and this is wonderful!

BIS! You made the game even more Arma! Don't get let down! Keep the faith!

Those are the types of things that keep me immersed. And at the same it makes for awesome gameplay experiences that never get old. And thats what I love about arma.