Fatigue Feedback (dev branch)

[Roddis 27]

Interesting changelog. 

 

But now they begun to lead the actual stamina to fatigue.

 

Ok,  i said nothing!!! 

 

Can someone say if the Dev's rolling sway is much or less affected by weapon's weight compared with stable? I can't. 

 

Do you think the actual system well reward a careful choice of the weapon as well as loadout? I think the aim with an Mk200 without prone with bipod should be almost impossible. 

[-Coulum- 35]

Do you think the actual system well reward a careful choice of the weapon as well as loadout? I think the aim with an Mk200 without prone with bipod should be almost impossible. 

Heavier weapons are definitely more difficult to handle than in stable, while moving, rotating quick or shortly after moving. Not impossible, but you really have to move slow and minimize quick changes in aim. It is good. I don't think this is an effect of stamina though. Seem to have upped inertia and then combined that with the new "sway due to movement" to get this. Stamina doesn't really play a role. 

[St. Jimmy 272]

Anyway to add so the more gear you've the more the animations will slower? Or something that introduces animation slowing back again, I think that's now only thing really missing. Just add something like that and it feels great! Because 99% load can still jog but 101% can only walk and I think some transition needs to be in here.

 

Oh and binocular and unarmed cheating is still possible. Having binocular or nothing in your hands consumes 0% if you jog.

[stburr91 1005]

The wishes have been heard. This might get interesting. I almost afraid that they would roll this out with the next update.

 

 

I'm very concerned about what is going to happen to the game in the next update myself. Truth be told, there should never be anything other than minor tweaks to the core mechanics of a game after release. Core mechanics should be developed before release, and not after, potentially leaving people unhappy with changes that came after they purchased the game.

 

It seems like the changes being tested are at best, a mixed bag. with very few that are happy. The ones that seem to like the heavy stamina, and sway penalties, most likely only make up a minute percentage of the 2 million people that have bought the game.

 

Like you said, it's going to be interesting, hopefully it all works out in the end.

[Kryptongame 14]

I'm very concerned about what is going to happen to the game in the next update myself.

 

It seems like very few people are happy with what is being done, and the ones that seem to like the heavy stamina, and sway penalties, most likely only make up a minute percentage of the 2 million people that have bought the game.

 

Like you said, it's going to be interesting. Hopefully it all works out in the end.

Agreed, at this point I'd rather have : New sway (lower than stable), the old fatigue (stable), and the new hit detection/hitboxes.

[supercereal4 29]

I'm liking today's update so far. Looks like the only thing missing is the animation slowdowns. I guess a few ways to implement this could be to have a "secondary" stamina, that will slowdown your animations as it depletes, depleting only after the primary stamina depletes. Or you could keep the single stamina measure but allocate the last "x"% to the animation slowdowns. Let's say for example that in the last 10% of your stamina, you can't sprint and your animations progressively slow down until you're walking when stamina reaches 0%.

[CaptainObvious 95]

Stamina is on the right tracks for sure, thanks Bohemia, and sorry for the initial negativeness on my behalf.

It would be great to take even the smallest inclines into account, so it would really matter how you plan your route, as now it's not much of an issue.

There's no difference to jog along the road or to the top of the hill on the left as you use the same amount of stamina, hehe.

 

 

Oh and the overall load should definitely affect it too, as -coulum- said earlier, so it's ever harder the more you carry.

 

 

edit: Brainfart removed

Edited November 2, 2015 by captainobvious

[Alwarren 2767]

Oh, distaste for something I have said ? Which one are you referring to ?

 

No, distaste because there are people that have a different opinions. If roles were reversed, he'd be the one giving "feedback" and wouldn't call it "ranting". In other words, the usual.

[Alwarren 2767]

Stamina is on the right tracks for sure, thanks Bohemia, and sorry for the initial negativeness on my behalf.

 

Well IMO the initial negativeness was well deserved, but I agree that the latest iteration is MUCH better. The only thing I am still missing is the slow-down, since it makes it impossible to "just" run away from a place. But overall, I am quite content with the new stamina.

[iratus 71]

Well IMO the initial negativeness was well deserved, but I agree that the latest iteration is MUCH better. The only thing I am still missing is the slow-down, since it makes it impossible to "just" run away from a place. But overall, I am quite content with the new stamina.

 

I agree. Although if looking at the stated design goals it was kinda inevitable to go into this direction. I wonder if this was their plan all along.

[Alwarren 2767]

I agree. Although if looking at the stated design goals it was kinda inevitable to go into this direction. I wonder if this was their plan all along.

 

I was under the impression from the original statement that not penalizing jogging was the original intended goal, because "other games do it like this". So any whining/ranting about it was, IMO, well-founded, and I like to think that it was mainly the feedback here that brought it into the right direction. Which is fine, since it shows that the devs listen to feedback :)

[nkenny 1057]

I'm very concerned about what is going to happen to the game in the next update myself. Truth be told, there should never be anything other than minor tweaks to the core mechanics of a game after release. Core mechanics should be developed before release, and not after, potentially leaving people unhappy with changes that came after they purchased the game.[...]

Emphasis my own. 

Patently nonsense. Starcraft, WoW, Eve Online, Diablo, or for that matter Counter Strike, all bear witness to strong multiplayer centered games that released (sometimes controversial) updates to core mechanics to great effect. Whilst cash-cows like Call of Duty or Battlefield tend to avoid such mid-life changes, preferring instead to release upgrades as new games, practically every game with a large large community following will go through restructuring. Without which, meaningful upgrades and updates would be pointless.

While the current stamina system does leave some questions, I welcome the will to commit and experiment with core gameplay updates. This is what drives a game forward. 

-k 

[CaptainObvious 95]

Well IMO the initial negativeness was well deserved, but I agree that the latest iteration is MUCH better. 

 

I meant how I said things and my general attitude towards the whole stamina system, not what I said, I prefer (try) to be constructive and polite in which I failed when stamina went live. 

 

 

 

The only thing I am still missing is the slow-down, since it makes it impossible to "just" run away from a place. But overall, I am quite content with the new stamina.

 

 

Yeah it would be nice to have back at some point.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Emphasis my own. 

Patently nonsense. Starcraft, WoW, Eve Online, Diablo, or for that matter Counter Strike, all bear witness to strong multiplayer centered games that released (sometimes controversial) updates to core mechanics to great effect. Whilst cash-cows like Call of Duty or Battlefield tend to avoid such mid-life changes, preferring instead to release upgrades as new games, practically every game with a large large community following will go through restructuring. Without which, meaningful upgrades and updates would be pointless.

While the current stamina system does leave some questions, I welcome the will to commit and experiment with core gameplay updates. This is what drives a game forward. 

-k 

 

You don't even need to go that far. The fatigue itself was added post-release. To go back to the "core mechanic that existed at release" would basically mean going back to the A2 system. Don't get me started on a ton of "core mechanics" that were added post release that absolutely enhance the game. This is just the first time that such mechanic has become controversial.

[St. Jimmy 272]

I made a ticket about the unarmed/binocular exploit:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=26426

 

Hopefully you can bash this now that you're making changes to the stamina/fatigue. It makes some PvP look stupid when people are running with binoculars :D

[Alwarren 2767]

You don't even need to go that far. The fatigue itself was added post-release. To go back to the "core mechanic that existed at release" would basically mean going back to the A2 system. Don't get me started on a ton of "core mechanics" that were added post release that absolutely enhance the game. This is just the first time that such mechanic has become controversial.

 

Fatigue, Inertia, bipodz... I am glad for every addition to the core mechanic that gets added, within certain boundaries :)

[haleks 8212]

Well IMO the initial negativeness was well deserved, but I agree that the latest iteration is MUCH better. The only thing I am still missing is the slow-down, since it makes it impossible to "just" run away from a place. But overall, I am quite content with the new stamina.

Not on dev-branch myself, but reading this, it looks like you will be able to run indefinitely without slowing-down? (o_o)'

 

Mmm, great, that was one thing wich made mods such as Jurassic Arma or Zombies & Demons even more enjoyable...

Maybe Life players were tired of being tired?

 

...

 

Speaking of slowing down - I guess a change on the forced-walk when injured is not part of Nexus plans?...

Not even a proper animation?

[twisted 128]

certainly like stamina more now. feels intuitive and yet easy to work with but with clear penalities for mad dashing. Progress.

[Alwarren 2767]

Not on dev-branch myself, but reading this, it looks like you will be able to run indefinitely without slowing-down? (o_o)'

 

Unfortunately, yes.It's definitely something I am going to miss.

 

IMO, the old system was still better by miles than the new one, and all that it would have needed was a stamina bar. The new one is getting bearable though, too bad though that slowdowns are out.

[razor6014 35]

wow ... they really upped those weights didnt they o.O  

[five_seven5-7 56]

instead of slowing down, can´t they just force us to walk its more real than 'animation slowdown'?

 

 

So far about the changelog:

 

 

 

• Added: Stamina drain parameters for terrain (not yet configured)

 

Please tweak this based on the type of the terrain (grassland, asphalt, wet areas, sandy areas etc...) - Most of the time platoons and squads moves in a less resistance path.

 

 

 

• Being in weapon optics no longer prevents stamina regeneration

 

Combat readiness should prevent stamina regeneration in stand up and some cases with heavier guns should drain it

 

Penalize player when staying too much time in the red status, more fade out screens, then make him walk and then ultimate phase get him on prone position.

 

Reduce player rate of movement based in the load that is being carried. Too much weight results in a narrow stride, reduce player rotation and the distance between steps is also shorter than those of someone who isn't carrying weight.

 

Increase drain rate based on the slope. When a track leads up or down a hil, the quarry carrying a load  will take greater care placing his feet in order to keep in balance

 

-References

Hurth, John, 2012, Combat tracking guide. Mechanicsburg, PA : Stackpole Books.

 

This thing is on track, continue that way.

[alan.rio 18]

Just had a look at the new stamina, it seems you guys are just caving to the casual life and wasteland players big time on this. Let them mod the stamina if they want to, this new version should NOT be the default.

[Kryptongame 14]

Just had a look at the new stamina, it seems you guys are just caving to the casual life and wasteland players big time on this. Let them mod the stamina if they want to, this new version should NOT be the default.

no...you just mod the stamina to fit your realism.....

[MadocComadrin 12]

Emphasis my own. 

Patently nonsense. Starcraft, WoW, Eve Online, Diablo, or for that matter Counter Strike, all bear witness to strong multiplayer centered games that released (sometimes controversial) updates to core mechanics to great effect. Whilst cash-cows like Call of Duty or Battlefield tend to avoid such mid-life changes, preferring instead to release upgrades as new games, practically every game with a large large community following will go through restructuring. Without which, meaningful upgrades and updates would be pointless.

While the current stamina system does leave some questions, I welcome the will to commit and experiment with core gameplay updates. This is what drives a game forward. 

-k

Added emphasis.

 

All of the bolded games you mentioned require such a level of modification to keep the game fresh or to keep a dynamic meta (for the really competitive games). ArmA really doesn't fall into that category. More content would be nice, but heavy modification makes for a chaotic, inconsistent player experience where players aren't looking for such a thing.

no...you just mod the stamina to fit your realism.....

Seeing that ArmA is supposed to have a decent degree of realism, not being an arcade, arena or competitive tactical shooter, you shouldn't have to mod things to get a respectable amount of realism.

[danil-ch 165]

I'm glad that stamina evolved into something more interested than the simple "sprint time bar".

 

The things that i'd like to see in the future:

*Walking should regain stamina much slower than the simple rest

*Wounds should decrease max stamina level or reduce stamina regeneration speed

*Running/sprinting in crouch stance should deplete stamina more severely than sprinting/sprinting in normal stance (maybe even show this on stamina bar)

*Crawling and moving backwards should be extremely tiresome  :)