Fatigue Feedback (dev branch)

[chortles 263]

My biggest concern is that Bohemia might be frightened of the seemingly massive negative feedback about this as well as the weapon inertia, although the vast majority of the players who play "proper" missions with tactical approach really like these changes.

You kinda missed the boat on this one, BI already nerfed sway previously over this. :lol: Although BI clearly has an Arma vision that isn't 1:1 with COD/BF, it's more "sandbox" than "sim" and the intended challenge seems to be more about decision-making, so a tactical game instead of a procedures trainer... I and seemingly BI feel that fatigue and inertia mechanics are valuable insofar as they serve that end (as opposed to any inherent value in and of themselves :p).

At least BI has suggested that some of what's been implemented now is actually laying the groundwork for unspecified mechanics to accompany the Marksmen DLC, so in that respect we "know" that the current state isn't the (intended) final state of the fatigue/sway/inertia implementation.

[CaptainObvious 95]

Well in that case it is clearly a mission design problem. Arma 3 doesn´t have a huge variety of vehicels but it sure as hell is enough to implement some for players to get from A to B.

That too, although I think the biggest "problem" is the loud Wasteland players who might be more used to arcade shooters and are expecting the same gun play in Arma.

You kinda missed the boat on this one, BI already nerfed sway previously over this. :lol: Although BI clearly has an Arma vision that isn't 1:1 with COD/BF, it's more "sandbox" than "sim" and the intended challenge seems to be more about decision-making, so a tactical game instead of a procedures trainer... I and seemingly BI feel that fatigue and inertia mechanics are valuable insofar as they serve that end (as opposed to any inherent value in and of themselves :p).

At least BI has suggested that some of what's been implemented now is actually laying the groundwork for unspecified mechanics to accompany the Marksmen DLC, so in that respect we "know" that the current state isn't the (intended) final state of the fatigue/sway/inertia implementation.

Yep, and it's a bit worrying that there's still rather loud moaning about these features even though they are toned down from what they were, it would be a real shame to see these mechanics neutered to shit because of that. :plain:

[miketim 20]

Ok guys let's keep,it on topic about fatigue related game issues, even if certain elements of the player base are decently special in their own way..:eek:

[SilentSpike 84]

Agreed. Prejudice is never warranted - even when people don't dislike the same things as you (shocking, I know) - and totally off topic.

[Bouben 3]

Wasteland players can always persuade their mission makers/server owners to disable the fatigue system completely. The commands are there at their disposal. A win-win situation.

[chortles 263]

That too, although I think the biggest "problem" is the loud Wasteland players who might be more used to arcade shooters and are expecting the same gun play in Arma.

I'd suggest rather that a bigger problem would be that this wasn't implemented earlier (read: before launch) in Arma 3's life so that they -- and everyone who only heard of Arma after the A3 launch -- could have had not only their expectation but also their learning of how to play set way earlier... in that context, I flat-out don't blame them nor mind their complaining. For starters, have you seen them complain about bullet drop nearly as much? No, and for good reason.

Yep, and it's a bit worrying that there's still rather loud moaning about these features even though they are toned down from what they were, it would be a real shame to see these mechanics neutered to shit because of that. :plain:

The irony is that they'd probably simmer down if weapon resting​ were implemented... :lol:

[-Coulum- 35]

The irony is that they'd probably simmer down if weapon resting​ were implemented...

Possibly, but I don't think that weapon resting will actually be the saviour that everyone thinks it to be. It will be an interesting day indeed though, if it ever comes. These forums will just explode or something.

[call_911 10]

Possibly, but I don't think that weapon resting will actually be the saviour that everyone thinks it to be. It will be an interesting day indeed though, if it ever comes. These forums will just explode or something.

Not all servers allow mods but it's ok...does the trick.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?155553-VTS-Simple-weapon-resting

I dunno how hard it would be to implimeant but I recall it might;ve been one of the features on the features list b4 release that got scrapped. maybe they'll add it later. Maybe a weapon's dlc or somthing who knows.

[chortles 263]

I dunno how hard it would be to implimeant but I recall it might;ve been one of the features on the features list b4 release that got scrapped. maybe they'll add it later. Maybe a weapon's dlc or somthing who knows.

Nah, it was never on the public list and the devs have gone out of their way to be mum about it (other than Dwarden's hinting).

[dragon01 902]

Marksman DLC should certainly have it, if it'll be any good, at least. Anyone who ever fired a rifle knows how important good support is, especially at very long ranges.

[komalt 10]

Picked up the game yesterday, long time Arma 2 player. Been playing all the single player modes and I have to say: the fatigue system that is in right now is incompatible with the current campaign. The AI Squad Leader and NPCs seems to sprint without any problem and you can't keep up with him without getting tired out. You miss out on events or have to sprint there and then you can't shoot, It just doesn't make sense and is very frustrating. The system is never even explained in detail apart from the fact that you shouldn't sprint for too long (Which is obvious but the campaign requires you to do to follow NPCs). For example I learned that sprinting with your weapon down reduces how quickly you get tired. It should really be explained more. Fatigue is necessary but it should be toned down a lot.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Komalt

[Bouben 3]

Picked up the game yesterday, long time Arma 2 player. Been playing all the single player modes and I have to say: the fatigue system that is in right now is incompatible with the current campaign. The AI Squad Leader and NPCs seems to sprint without any problem and you can't keep up with him without getting tired out. You miss out on events or have to sprint there and then you can't shoot, It just doesn't make sense and is very frustrating. The system is never even explained in detail apart from the fact that you shouldn't sprint for too long (Which is obvious but the campaign requires you to do to follow NPCs). For example I learned that sprinting with your weapon down reduces how quickly you get tired. It should really be explained more. Fatigue is necessary but it should be toned down a lot.

Can anyone else confirm that the official campaign is not fatigue-system-ready?

[twisted 128]

Can anyone else confirm that the official campaign is not fatigue-system-ready?

i am currently palyig through curent campaign. no big probelms so far, although i agree with Komalt that a desription of fatigue managemnet would help.

small things like to run with your weapon pointed down, pause under cover every once in a while to check out the situation and gain your breath a bit before moving in, dont sprint everywhere like a headless chicken, and go prone for much improved accuracy sooner. i find it makes the campaign more interesting tactially though. Like to which part is broken Komalt (specific mission if possible?)

[chortles 263]

A "game-y" tip here, but if I recall correctly (I tried this before, so it may or may not still apply) it's better to crouch and then go to prone than to dive to prone -- the dive builds up fatigue more/quicker than the incremental stance lowering.

[machineabuse 11]

On a recent replay of the campaign the major thing I noticed is that a lot of AI had trouble keeping formation over distance because of the fatigue system. AT and medic would eventually slow down to a snails pace and either walk or jog in slo motion. In extended firefights I also notice enemy squads losing cohesion, again their AT, medics and ammo bearers trailing behind on their flanking maneuvers.

Campaign is still playable, just with fewer AI team mates surviving. ;)

A player can be smart enough to proactively rest and communicate their fatigue state, even dumping/cacheing gear to lighten the load for combat. The AI doesn't do any of that :p

[killzone_kid 1330]

Don't really want to make a ticket as it is minor thing, but still, the new sounds of very heavy breathing in 1st person are a little bit overdone. If you wear headphones you can hear the actors exhalation hitting microphone pretty hard :)

[tmp95 16]

Just want to +1 the side which says new fatigue situation is way off. Needs to be toned way down. Hell, with all the AI problems going on with A3 (still). Why even introduce this system and then do so with such an impact. Start small and increase up if needed. As is now, I find it silly. And yes, your AI teammates fall way back and are KIA much more often now (after already being somewhat brain dead within the base game prior to fatigue issues).

[gibonez 18]

The only thing the Fatigue system really needs is some sort of way for the player to know exactly how tired he is and more importantly the rate at which he is getting fatigued.

Even a simple bar would help.

[chortles 263]

Even a simple bar would help.

And even VBS3 has that by default! :lol: Seriously.

If I recall correctly, there should be a script that allows the HUD from Virtual Arsenal to appear in missions...?

[DancZer 65]

more importantly the rate at which he is getting fatigued.

This is what i missing too. I think the shacktac stanima bar should be default.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Use the vignette effect as an indicator how tired you're. When it kicks in it's better to slow down walking or stop and observe. It's very easy to manage that way. It takes 10mins to learn fatigue in VR. But I don't deny that a bar would be welcome.

[twisted 128]

Use the vignette effect as an indicator how tired you're. When it kicks in it's better to slow down walking or stop and observe. It's very easy to manage that way. It takes 10mins to learn fatigue in VR.

You over estimate some people's ability to adapt. You presume that they can infer and gather information from multiple sources rather than a simple bar or HUD element. You are too generous sir.

As an aside, when playing breaking point last night fur the first time in a while, I find myself compensating for fatigue shtick the authors of the kids have it disabled. I kind of actually missed it and the immersion in the world it proves somehow. Yadda yadda something Immersion yada yada world enironnent .

[froggyluv 2136]

Use the vignette effect as an indicator how tired you're. When it kicks in it's better to slow down walking or stop and observe. It's very easy to manage that way. It takes 10mins to learn fatigue in VR. But I don't deny that a bar would be welcome.

Yep, much prefer little subtleties like this as opposed to a bar that gives exact information. Only problem is I have so many mods running with so many PP distortion I now need a Dave Chappelle narrator to let me know why I'm so fuzzy headed "Tired B*tches!*

[miketim 20]

Well, we all know Fatigue isnt perfect, but it lets me spray like a terrorist insurgent like I used to in arma 2, this time I cant be blamed directly for my inaccuracy :)

[chortles 263]

You over estimate some people's ability to adapt. You presume that they can infer and gather information from multiple sources rather than a simple bar or HUD element. You are too generous sir.

Hey now, it's already been demonstrated when you try to build the game the way that you think it's "supposed" to be played instead of how people actually play it, you end up with DayZ standalone...