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Rydygier

HETMAN - Artificial Leader

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I run HAL with zorrobytes zbe_cache and it works VERY well :) Groups are cached down to one unit until the come in range of an enemy (set by player) or the player himself.

I have to run a test to see how zbe_cache works with ALiVE where I remove the profiler.

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I run HAL with zorrobytes zbe_cache and it works VERY well :) Groups are cached down to one unit until the come in range of an enemy (set by player) or the player himself.

I have to run a test to see how zbe_cache works with ALiVE where I remove the profiler.

So they spawn when they are in proximity of another group or do they spawn when the leader has sight of the other leader?

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But IMO gain is not as good, as could be. After all some resources are spent on leader unit (along with his vehicle and its crew, if this should make any sense). As said - ALIVE's system is unmatched here, allowing for much more. There also is problem with battles of such cached groups. If groups are fully virtualized, then battle result is emulated by pure juggling with numbers. If group isn't cached at all, then battle is simulated normally, by A3 engine. But how to handle battle between two groups reduced to the leader only, where leaders are fighting normally, and rest is virtual? Unless we decache group at fight, or make leaders invulnerable and results are obtained as for fully virtual group... Part of the problems described above stays - counting units, commands working on single units, losses (morale) calculation, ammo counting, health check, cargo space needed check, artillery fire from both points of view...

Yeah I see what you mean especially with fighting between two different types of group (cached vs non).

Also (based on how DAC works) caching vehicle groups poses problems when the group has > 1 vehicle in it... DAC cannot handle this and just does not cache the group at all. If the group has only one vehicle it will cache all except the driver. I assume this is some problem with accurately getting the 2nd driver.. but not sure.

That being said I don't find the performance hit too bad with DAC caching... as long as you have a total of under about 150 units on the map at any one time it seems ok (so for DAC that is probably around 25-30 groups).

IIRC zbe-caching un-caches the group if near other AI players so battles between AI groups can still happen in 'reality' even if the player is far away.

So they spawn when they are in proximity of another group or do they spawn when the leader has sight of the other leader?

That's a good question I thought it was just straight distance check but if there was a visual check that would be even better!!!!

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So they spawn when they are in proximity of another group or do they spawn when the leader has sight of the other leader?

I proximity AFAIK. Works very well, although still early code.

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Caching of the multi-veh groups (to the only leader's vehicle + crew) is doable, but a bit tricky. It is made such way in the Pilgrimage mission. Additionally, what is not reduced, have disabled simulation (frozen) and is hidden, so we have there up to about 1100 AIs on the map + many objects with kept 45-55 FPS, but this (reducing+freezing) is no go here, HAL isn't player-centric, far groups must be active too.

Actually, how much AIs can be on the map with good performance for ALIVE's profiling? IIRC it is counted in thousands. That's what is so tempting in making HAL somehow/anyhow compatibile with such system. HAL, with only (sic!) up to few hundreds AIs under control can't really fly - its potential is choked. Hetman is meant to deal with forces of division scale or even more (BB), not only one company or two. Fact is, Hetman so far never had an opportunity to shine the full light, as I wanted, due to limited hardware abilities. ALIVE's profiling is a glimmer of hope, so this can be changed, and Hetman someday may show, what he is capable of. Well, unless such amount of controlled groups will make HAL's code overloading the scheduler. As said, never tested.

Edited by Rydygier

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That's a good question I thought it was just straight distance check but if there was a visual check that would be even better!!!!

Visual is not really good unless you are going to simulate spotting which I guess can be done but lots of work I would assume there. As a silly example, lets say you are using just visual check instead of distance when you have a very large group. If that very large group is reduced down to 1 unit then it is going to be much harder to spot that a bunch of units. Not to mention that spotting and such can be very different between a bunch of different units etc.

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Caching of the multi-veh groups (to the only leader's vehicle + crew) is doable, but a bit tricky. It is made such way in the Pilgrimage mission. Additionally, what is not reduced, have disabled simulation (frozen) and is hidden, so we have there up to about 1100 AIs on the map + many objects with kept 45-55 FPS, but this (reducing+freezing) is no go here, HAL isn't player-centric, far groups must be active too.

Actually, how much AIs can be on the map with good performance for ALIVE's profiling? IIRC it is counted in thousands. That's what is so tempting in making HAL somehow/anyhow compatibile with such system. HAL, with only (sic!) up to few hundreds AIs under control can't really fly - its potential is choked. Hetman is meant to deal with forces of division scale or even more (BB), not only one company or two. Fact is, Hetman so far never had an opportunity to shine the full light, as I wanted, due to limited hardware abilities. ALIVE's profiling is a glimmer of hope, so this can be changed, and Hetman someday may show, what he is capable of. Well, unless such amount of controlled groups will make HAL's code overloading the scheduler. As said, never tested.

Yes it's been tested with 3 full battalions so just under 4000 units.. of course most of those are virtualized. I'm guessing it can handle even more I'm just worried my PC will explode :p That number is just for groups spawned by the placement modules and doesn't include the CQB component which depending on the map can add another few hundred units.

Visual is not really good unless you are going to simulate spotting which I guess can be done but lots of work I would assume there. As a silly example, lets say you are using just visual check instead of distance when you have a very large group. If that very large group is reduced down to 1 unit then it is going to be much harder to spot that a bunch of units. Not to mention that spotting and such can be very different between a bunch of different units etc.

Yeah I didn't think that one through... also I would assume it would be more 'expensive' to do LOS/visual checks for each unit vs just a simple distance check.

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A visual check would be universally bad, even if it is plausible. Leader units would often miss each other because of visual obstructions, and when they would meet, the encounter would almost always be one spotting another first, which would mean that leader's units are spawned/uncached first and briefly outnumber the other leader. If both group's are spawned simultaneously to be fair, then the visual check is pointless and it should just be a proximity check.

Regardless of the method, what would happen after the encounter? Would the group continue on its waypoints as a whole group or would the group be re-cached down to the leader (who may be injured)?

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First post (Sample missions section) updated with link to HETMAN: War Stories mission.

Basic idea behind is to make Hetman accessible to all players, even those, who consider HAL as too difficult to use. Few clicks, and we have Hetman-led dynamic battle. There are some ways for applying advanced setup, but obviously degree of control over Hetman is limited in HWS comparing to HAL standalone. I hope for fruitful development of HWS. By the way figured out some improvements for HAL itself including automated RHQ gathering, so HAL standalone should get some benefits as well.

Edited by Rydygier

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So, Hetman is now also on Steam as my first try of using Workshop for addons... :/

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Hello Rydygier

As you may already know, i am a keen admirer of your work. In your manual, you mention that some of the features HAL offer were experimental and occasionally caused issues. I was just interested if you planed or had ever wondered about revisiting the aforementioned features. Thanks.

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Well, at least for some of them "experimental" status was silently expired, as all seemed to work well after many tests, and "experimental" is left just in case. I think, due to War Stories I'll look over HAL again - I'm sure, so HWS tests will reveal some weak spots anyway, so it is good opportunity to re-check some features. Few however may be never 100% reliable though.

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Hi, just like to say this mod is the best thing ever. However, what would be the optimal way of giving a AI reinforcements? I figured since I can only really go up to company level in terms of amount of units, is there some way I could spawn them in and "give" them to HETMAN?

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is there some way I could spawn them in and "give" them to HETMAN?

Yes. In fact, in default, unlimited control mode, HETMAN will "grab" under wings of his control every group of given side found on map at the beginning of each cycle. So in such case just use any way to spawn new groups in chosen moment and place - HAL should take control over them flawlessly with next orders cycle begin.

In limited control mode, if you have chosen it via init config, spawned groups must be also added to the RydHQ_Included array (or alternatively their TLs synced with Leader unit via scripts, but why to complicate...).

Edited by Rydygier

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Ah thanks, that helps a lot. I would also like to report a bug regarding the AI behavior with grouped motorized and mechanized vehicles.

It seems if you use any type of group that has more then one vehicle, the AI Team Leader will order the rest but himself and a driver to dismount. This is easiest way to see this, is by playing your War Stories campaign, particularly when having the x3 armed truck group from the FIA, or a tank section from any of the other factions. The AI will abandon perfect condition vehicles and if possible order all the dismounted crew to board their vehicle. He then will proceed to treat the dismounted units as regular infantry, even if they are all crewmen. The dismount is forced, and vehicles get locked in the process.

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Yes, saw this in HWS, I have to investigate it, sadly, it's hard to reproduce reliably, as it happens sometimes, not always and its hard to catch exact circumstance, that induces this. Question - does it happens also outside HWS, or only there?

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I just popped in to say thanks to you Rydygier for providing us with this excellent tool for mission making. I find HAL to be a very versatile tool for mission makers as it can be bent for almost every role thanks to your excellent documentation and configuration options. You have provided our gaming group with countless hours of fun.

Thanks Rydygier!

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I know this might be too soon, but does anyone have a config made for RHS mod?

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Rydygier, I hope you will incorporate the new choppers soon so they don't need to be added manually. Thank you for continuing to develop HAL. I don't know how I would play ArmA without it.

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Sure, I'm planning in general eventually incorporate all improvements and fixes added to the HAL's code in the HWS. That includes also optional, automated RHQ filler based on the config. Choppers should be then also added to the default pool. Just not sure, when exactly all this will happen, I'm finishing one small sie project, then I have to take care of some RL things. :)

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Rydygier, are you going to rewrite the RydHQ_AmmoDrop now that there is sling loading?

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Hm. Indeed. Possibly. Once I try all this sling loading thingy one day, I'll think, if and how use it for ammo dropping.

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Hm. Indeed. Possibly. Once I try all this sling loading thingy one day, I'll think, if and how use it for ammo dropping.

The AI is pretty good about loading things. I gave one of the new choppers a "Lift Cargo" waypoint that I place directly on top of a truck and placed a "Drop Cargo" waypoint a few kilometers away. When I previewed it, the chopper automatically grabbed the truck and dropped it off. Very simple. I tried an ammo box and it worked the same.

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Wow. That sounds like awesome feature. Definitelly will try to utilize this in Hetman, thanks. Still - not sure, when exactly I'll back to Hetman itself, depends, maybe tommorow, maybe next year... :) Learned to not force myself to work on anything without genuine willingness and it's not possible to predict, when I'll get again such enthusiasm for pushing forward given project.

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