AllowDamageFalse in Official Campaigns?

[froggyluv 2136]

Contains story spoilers...

You have got to be kidding me?! This is an affront to sandbox gaming and an admission of both poor mission design and flawed AI. The 'mission' after Kamino gets attacked and your running with the leader should be renamed: Ode to Staff Sargent Adams -the Terminator Why I didn't have to fire one shot until Adams was scripted killed -he took no less than 62 shots. I repeat -62 shots. Without a scratch, a mark, an "Ouch!" -nothing. I just ran 30m behind him and watched him terminate scores of enemies without the need for self preservation. It made a mockery of the intense music, the immersion of "we need to find a safe route!" and I couldn't help but snicker, cringe, and deny my sinking sense of "You've just been BattleField'ed bitch"

This is flat out baby diaper and enough to make me hang this series up for good. Seriously BI, I called this shit out when EW came out but as that was only pseudo-official, I was called histrionic and chicken little that the sky was falling. PMC than had it and I grew more worried...and now this. You can't better design the mission to allow for the leader to go down earlier? You can't fix AI to the point where an Elite AI will beat Greenie AI due to actual on-field prowess? You can't better balance the odds so no need for cheap immersion killing cop outs? Why not have all Blufor immortal and just have the player watch their awesomeness?

Whomever thought this was a good idea-its not. and thanks for killing my faith in the series. If I want to play a movie -Ill play BF thanks.

Please for the love of all things sacred -do not continue down this path as it utterly destroys the sense of 'every bullet is deadly'. I'll pick up again in a few days and pray that's the end of that for the rest of this episode.

Edited October 27, 2013 by PurePassion
There has been a clearly communicated rule against spoilers!

[laverniusregalis 10]

I think it would be a better idea to give both you and Adams a simple first aid system like from the ArmA 2 mission where you cleared a town on Utes and continued to eliminate enemies near the airfield, instead.

But calm down, it isn't that bad. Besides, I'm sure the HK from OFP was TOTALLY balanced too amright? But if you really hate it that much just leave.

[froggyluv 2136]

Whats the HK from OFP? And yes it is that bad. Running around with a guy with a cloak of invincibility is as bad as him conjuring fireball spells on the battlefield -it's utterly immersion killing and has no place in a mil-sim/combined arms whatever you wanna call it. You wanna trump up Adams and give him extended armor and increased hitpoints -that's fine but to allow him to just run thru without a care in the world all the while taking bullets to the face....If your ok with that, then we're are just very much different gamers.

[metalcraze 290]

Meh that's not the worst. The whole campaign is more like a very cheap attempt at Call of Duty on ArmA engine.

PMC DLC 2.0

[mistyronin 1181]

I believe that the dev branch forum is the only one allowed to talk about the campaign feedback ( to avoid spoilers, and so on ).

[laverniusregalis 10]

Whats the HK from OFP? And yes it is that bad. Running around with a guy with a cloak of invincibility is as bad as him conjuring fireball spells on the battlefield -it's utterly immersion killing and has no place in a mil-sim/combined arms whatever you wanna call it. You wanna trump up Adams and give him extended armor and increased hitpoints -that's fine but to allow him to just run thru without a care in the world all the while taking bullets to the face....If your ok with that, then we're are just very much different gamers.

I sort of agree, but not in as angry of a way. Like I said, maybe give both Kerry and Adams a simple first aid system like the module from ArmA 2 in that mission. Anyways, the HK was the default weapon of Gastovski, the black operator from OFP:CWC. It was notorious for being one of the two best infantry weapons in the game, the other being the M21. It had the accuracy of one of the sniper rifles in A3, damage between an MX/M4 and DMR, same recoil while standing as an MX does while prone, and it was also suppressed.

[HKFlash 9]

I noticed this issue, proposal:

Raise Adams hitpoints but have the mission fail if he dies.

Alternative: set Adams as captive.

Bingo!

[progamer 14]

I found it was due to the story, so it didn't bug me.

[laverniusregalis 10]

I noticed this issue, proposal:

Raise Adams hitpoints but have the mission fail if he dies.

Alternative: set Adams as captive.

Bingo!

But what about the simple first aid from ArmA 2!? It was one of the first vanilla scenarios that used it, you could be incapacitated instead of dead and teammates could carry you on their backs and patch you up.

[progamer 14]

Meh that's not the worst. The whole campaign is more like a very cheap attempt at Call of Duty on ArmA engine.

PMC DLC 2.0

What? PMC's are everywhere these days. There were something like 3 PMCs for every one soldier in Afghanistan. I miss my armored SUV. :(

[HKFlash 9]

But what about the simple first aid from ArmA 2!? It was one of the first vanilla scenarios that used it, you could be incapacitated instead of dead and teammates could carry you on their backs and patch you up.

Well... we have kinda been asking and begging for that module this whole time so...

[chortles 263]

And then there was the screenshot that got so many hearts aflutter that DnA specifically shot down any hint of any change... though even before that some people took the screenshot to be the devs trolling the asking/begging members.

To clarify a few things after the campaign release date announcement: it will be a singleplayer-only experience. We've also seen discussions about the scope of gameplay changes based on what was seen in screenshots. Don't expect big core gameplay overhauls released alongside the campaign. As suggested by some of you, the campaign contains a few more 'staged' situations involving custom animation work. That is not to say there will not be a load of cool additions to benefit community designers. Many new animations, sounds and objects can be used; something made easier by the new modules designed by folks like Jiří Wainar.

[dmarkwick 261]

Well, I might make one observation: the campaign is, almost by definition, not sandbox. It's a story you're being shepherded though, that's the nature of it. Scripting is being used to get certain things to happen in the way the campaign needs it, nothing wrong with that IMO, it's what scripting is there to do. If the story requires that a certain character needs to survive to a certain point, then that's how it's going to be done. It sounds to me like you don't like scripted story-led campaigns :)

[cozza 24]

I wouldn't mind it.

I hated in OFP CWC how I would lose Berghoff and half the voiced characters and yet in the next mission, There they are. Like nothing happened.

Arma2 medical system was ok. But annoying sometimes. Team members had the AI skill to run really far away. Get shot. Roll around the ground dieing. Die and mission failed because I have to run through an entire forest to get to him.

If allowdamageFalse is only on for 1 mission and only on 1 person. I can live with that.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes, for the sake of story telling, some workarounds must be made.

[2nd ranger 282]

There's no point in having a story-driven campaign with NPC characters if they can die at any moment. The mission framework would have to be absurdly complex to allow for such eventualities. The only other options are for the player to always be in command of a squad of nameless robots who have no lines or input, or to be by himself. Even if there was a first aid system, it would get annoying if you had to resuscitate guy all the time.

Although, perhaps a more elegant solution, in addition to the damage eventhandler, would be to delete any bullets that come too close to the NPC, so although he would still be invincible, you wouldn't actually be aware of him getting shot.

[Bashka_IF 1]

...delete any bullets that come too close to the NPC...

this.

[13islucky 10]

this.

But wouldn't that make the friendly NPCs Aiden-like entities when you stay near them?

[foffy 58]

The worst possible solution you can have to address this personally is to find a program to decrypt the pbo and manually remove the AllowDamage variable for the mission. I know it is perhaps silly for it to be there, but be mindful that on some level you can tamper with this. The fact you'd be left to tamper with it could also be seen as a problem, I guess. :P

That is, if you find it to be so troubling. I assume if you played the game with a lot of realistic mods, it could maybe overwrite it, or make it look a lot worse. I know Bohemia didn't make this (but they did support it on some level) but Iron Front: Liberation 1944 had this with the character Walter. That man could take MG fire and still run like a champion.

[Sealife 22]

Personally i think this thread is more damaging and selfish than the init line of the character

absolutely abhorent that you chose to ask this with such detail and reveal such spoilers , given you already knew how to make the changes for your own experience makes it even worse.

Campaigns and the way they are written and recieved are subjective , however given the ability to change the code with ease , there can be no such justification for a single minded opinon to be almost forced upon and indeed broadcast too the miltitudes.

really wrong this on so many levels.

you have just ruined my experience before i even played it on stable , thanks.

[laverniusregalis 10]

Well, I might make one observation: the campaign is, almost by definition, not sandbox. It's a story you're being shepherded though, that's the nature of it. Scripting is being used to get certain things to happen in the way the campaign needs it, nothing wrong with that IMO, it's what scripting is there to do. If the story requires that a certain character needs to survive to a certain point, then that's how it's going to be done. It sounds to me like you don't like scripted story-led campaigns :)

Then why does he probably like CWC's campaign?

[bonchie 39]

Then why does he probably like CWC's campaign?

Probably because the CWC campaign, as great as it is, has reached levels of nostaligia that it can't hope to actually fill in reality. That campaign had plenty of moments where scripting forced your hand.

[laverniusregalis 10]

Probably because the CWC campaign, as great as it is, has reached levels of nostaligia that it can't hope to actually fill in reality. That campaign had plenty of moments where scripting forced your hand.

Precisely my point - ArmA3 and CWC's campaign are a lot alike. People just like CWC too much to realize.

[Polygon 11]

Precisely my point - ArmA3 and CWC's campaign are a lot alike. People just like CWC too much to realize.

Alot alike? You're insane. post at least 10 similarities between them and avoid generalizations such as "equal quality of [story][characters][etc]".

In CWC's beginning, player didn't do many varied things, but had more freedom overall. You haven't drove a vehicle properly in A3 camp, or patrol an area. Who knows whats ahead.

[froggyluv 2136]

First off let me express sincere regret that I acted brashly by posting without use of spoilers. It's not fair to those who haven't yet tried the episode and I acted too quickly out of fear of a trend that personally, kills my sense of gaming. Won't happen again. :(

Warning !!! Continued discussion of campaign below!!

I noticed this issue, proposal:

Raise Adams hitpoints but have the mission fail if he dies.

Alternative: set Adams as captive.

Bingo!

Exactly. Surely there is a way to increase an NPC's survivability without resorting to invincibility. Adams, after absorbing too much damage could merely drop in a wounded state with the same or similar dialogue playing out without effecting the story. Honestly I don't even see what storyline was being promoted with such urgency that he needed to play out like a superhero only to meet his fate a few minutes later -Adams' incredible bullet absorbtion ability WAS the story!

I found it was due to the story, so it didn't bug me.

But how? What critical event in the storyline was so important as to make him invulnerable? The only thing I remember was him telling me where to go...Is that not a continuable possibility in the event of his demise?

Well, I might make one observation: the campaign is, almost by definition, not sandbox. It's a story you're being shepherded though, that's the nature of it. Scripting is being used to get certain things to happen in the way the campaign needs it, nothing wrong with that IMO, it's what scripting is there to do. If the story requires that a certain character needs to survive to a certain point, then that's how it's going to be done. It sounds to me like you don't like scripted story-led campaigns :)

I have no problem with scripted sequences, but not without exception. Pretty much anyone on the battlefield with player needs to play by the same rules as player or we are on a slippery slope. What happens if they decide to make all missions AI led but also need to continue the storyline -a whole game of Hercules with player being the only one effected by bullets? Or an enemy NPC who is deemed 'to important to die' yet you have him in your sights early? I'm pretty flabbergasted that this is deemed as OK or a necessary evil for us to enjoy BI Official Campaigns.

Yes, for the sake of story telling, some workarounds must be made.

Again, what exactly was so needed other than him leading you around and completely breaking the need to tactically play out the mission? A good mission must require the player to use all tactical measures to solve the mission -what is there to solve if alls needed is to hide and watch your fellow demi-gods wreak their havoc on the mere mortals of Opfor. I actually started feeling bad for Opfor AI who were actually trying to win but didn't realize who or what they were up against :p

There's no point in having a story-driven campaign with NPC characters if they can die at any moment. The mission framework would have to be absurdly complex to allow for such eventualities. The only other options are for the player to always be in command of a squad of nameless robots who have no lines or input, or to be by himself. Even if there was a first aid system, it would get annoying if you had to resuscitate guy all the time.

That's an absurd conclusion. We've been led by AI before and there wasn't the need for super-humanism on the battlefield. Many people have requested more AI led official missions and your saying that this is the only solution?!? SO basically the new gameplan will be to just stay behind the NPC with the most lines and you'll know that you'll come out ok. First off, don't make ridiculous missions with 2 guys taking on twenty. The sheer madness of this dictates that a cheat will be needed. Better balance the numerical odds. Next would be to make the AI play out according to their skillsets with inferior AI being worse shots, more prone to flight etc.. and crack AI displaying actual prowess on the battlefield. While watching Adams, I noticed he literally just stood and sprayed, calling out targets with impunity while blood cloud after blood cloud escaped him. No clever use of cover, stance or anything -the entire episode was ridiculous.