Clipping issues

[Smurf 12]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/DMarkwick/LoS_vs_LoF_slope_zps36c4f5ab.jpg

epic thread

[Greenfist 1863]

About that video screencap where AI shoots at you while you're completely out of his line of sight; they keep shooting at the place where they last spotted you. They don't see or hit you. Just trying to suppress you. Now that's some clever AI!

[GShock 10]

You guys insist in posting pictures that show EXACTLY what happens in this engine and you insist in saying that it is normal.

ArmA3 is just ok as it is, thanks to your outstanding justifications to crystal clear unrealistic issues.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

[maturin 12]

No.

...

[Cathrynn 10]

I'd like to propose a new mod, it would be just like Sniperwolf's avatar pic. ;)

[lappihuan 178]

Is this thread only Satire or is OP really that confused?

[Greenfist 1863]

Is this thread only Satire or is OP really that confused?

I don't know anymore. We're all a bit confused.

He does have some valid points; bringing back weapon collisions and implementing a completely new system for weapon resting on any surface. But he's having a hard time to acknowledge that some of his conceptions on real life geometry are just wrong. Like, "the enemy can't hit my forehead if he can't see my eyes." And this has derailed the thread badly.

In my opinion, BIS should make weapons collide with objects, just like the other parts of the soldier. This would spawn a bunch of whiners who'd complain getting stuck with their long rifles, to which I'd just reply: "Learn to move; don't move through doorways sideways with your MG."

Edited October 28, 2013 by Greenfist

[GShock 10]

<-- Higher ground proper firing arch with adaptive posture and no clipping.

<-- Lower ground firing arch

That's how it works in the real world and what ArmA3 is supposed to simulate (and doesn't).

The very few who are REALLY reading this thread, most likely already know. Do mind that to add to the problem, ArmA3 destroys the green's firing arch and positional advantage by making the rifle clip and, thus cutting this angle in a way that in 1st person gives no reference to its lower arm.

The effective firing arch in ArmA3 is the problem (as displayed in the picture with the colored lines, this happens with ALL objects and not just with ridges.

The ridge, in this example is FLAT. With an ondulating ridge and the rifle-resting over it, the higher ground has even greater advantage.

[maturin 12]

The rifle clips where a real rifle would clip.

Again, you need to stop skylining yourself like an untrained insurgent and crawl to the goddamn military crest.

[Deadfast 43]

That's how it works in the real world and what ArmA3 is supposed to simulate (and doesn't).

Please do tell me how you're going to hit anything this way:

[ProfTournesol 956]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34730455/random/slopething.png

I understand the need for a copyright.

[maturin 12]

Highspeed lowdrag operators know to attach a block of wood to their NVG mount. Then you rest the buttstock on that to absorb recoil.

BIS WHY HAVE YOU MADE US A JOKE INSTEAD OF A SIMULATOOOOOOOORRR

[St. Jimmy 272]

That's how it works in the real world and what ArmA3 is supposed to simulate (and doesn't).

And this is how it goes in real life

Just like in this picture

[lappihuan 178]

I don't know anymore. We're all a bit confused.

He does have some valid points; bringing back weapon collisions and implementing a completely new system for weapon resting on any surface. But he's having a hard time to acknowledge that some of his conceptions on real life geometry are just wrong. Like, "the enemy can't hit my forehead if he can't see my eyes." And this has derailed the thread badly.

In my opinion, BIS should make weapons collide with objects, just like the other parts of the soldier. This would spawn a bunch of whiners who'd complain getting stuck with their long rifles, to which I'd just reply: "Learn to move; don't move through doorways sideways with your MG."

Well, that are some points and i get them. But OP is so confused, that he beats around with all arms and feets...

If there would be a rifle collision, it would need to be dynamic. So your rifle wouldn't be stuck at one position in front of you, but more likely it should be pressed away by a wall or the ground. That would be neat for sure, everything else would just be a pain in the arse.

But OP tries to cover his wrong statements with wrong "facts" and claims BIS to be a clown that makse only jokes :j:

This is not how you make constructive and productive criticism.

[maturin 12]

For real, all this complaining about literally 2 inches of difference between observing and firing positions. It's only a problem if you refuse to use the stance adjust system (either high prone or crouch from further back), crawl to the military crest, or train your in-game situational awareness to learn where your muzzle is. In other words, L2P.

Furthermore, never using inflammatory language or make wild denunciations if you can only back up your words with exceedingly poor communication skills. We have how many pages of diagrams and videos and shit is still confusing? Yegawds.

[Tacti-Cool 10]

For OPs latest diagram to be correct, the shooter would have be using a weapon system without a external magazine, either that or it would have to be buried in the dirt for that barrel to be pointing that far down the slope, And I don't know about y'all, but I'm not gonna bury my P-Mags in the dirt.

[GShock 10]

For OPs latest diagram to be correct, the shooter would have be using a weapon system without a external magazine, either that or it would have to be buried in the dirt for that barrel to be pointing that far down the slope, And I don't know about y'all, but I'm not gonna bury my P-Mags in the dirt.

If the rifle (or any part of it, including the mag) was not allowed to clip, the limitations in the firing arch would be visible. You can rest the mag on the ground when it gives you extra stability but as I said, we can't move forward (resting, bipods, etc) if the clipping is not solved first.

As of the picture posted by Deadfast here it is at all possible to shoot from that angle but you have to build the "prone on a side" posture (d'oh another adaptive posture needed) and use this: http://www.virginmedia.com/images/corner-gun-431x300.jpg

or this http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/02/aimpoint-makes/

Both, in my opinion, could be inserted immediately in ArmA3 (and would greatly help in CQB) and used through the combat glasses (The reconjet glasses are an example of contemporary wireless device projecting imagery on the lens).

Again... if the engine doesn't solve clipping/los/lof problems it's pointless to discuss what comes next (those extra points I listed in #102).

[Tacti-Cool 10]

you already can be prone, and lay on your side, Cntrl A or Cntrl+D respectively while laying prone. D'Oh!

[rye1 21]

What's going on in....

ಠ_ಠ

[timmo1982 10]

If the rifle (or any part of it, including the mag) was not allowed to clip, the limitations in the firing arch would be visible. You can rest the mag on the ground when it gives you extra stability but as I said, we can't move forward (resting, bipods, etc) if the clipping is not solved first.

As of the picture posted by Deadfast here it is at all possible to shoot from that angle but you have to build the "prone on a side" posture (d'oh another adaptive posture needed) and use this: http://www.virginmedia.com/images/corner-gun-431x300.jpg

or this http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/02/aimpoint-makes/

Both, in my opinion, could be inserted immediately in ArmA3 (and would greatly help in CQB) and used through the combat glasses (The reconjet glasses are an example of contemporary wireless device projecting imagery on the lens).

Again... if the engine doesn't solve clipping/los/lof problems it's pointless to discuss what comes next (those extra points I listed in #102).

1) Even if any part of the rifle could not clip the terrain or objects, you would still have a problem hitting the enemy in the original situation you have shown- You simply wouldn't be able to align your eye and the scope (as illustrated in deadfasts picture). So it's really a bit moot in this case and caused not by a limitation in the engine, but a limitation in where you have positioned your body to fire. It's a crappy firing position- the rifle needs to be pointed at the enemy, the scope is higher therefore your head needs to be higher. This means that on a ridge lying prone, with your eye at the scope and the weapon in your shoulder, your torso needs to be more or less aligned with the rifle as well....which means cresting the ridge to point down at the enemy.

For the situation with the rocks, that's fair, but as has been mentioned a few times, you soon get a better appreciation about where your muzzle is in relation to objects and/or the scope....just think scope position + a bit more rather than relying on the assumption that if your scope is clear your muzzle is too.

2)....are you simply trolling with that reference to 'bendy' guns?

[mr_centipede 31]

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/corner-gun-431x300.jpg

or this http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/02/aimpoint-makes/

So it's an addon request now?

[progamer 14]

How long will this go on? Seriously, your issue keeps on changing.

[GShock 10]

How long will this go on? Seriously, your issue keeps on changing.

I am trying to answer to everyone, ProGamer.

ALL of the issues depending on clipping and LOS/LOF impossibilities have been dealt with and repeated hundreds of times.

Go back to #102 and read the list again.

They are just trying to divert the attention/discussion (which is over from my perspective. It's pointless to talk with people in state of denial of truth).

[maturin 12]

I went back to post #102.

W.T.F.

I told you pages ago, DAYS ago, to cut the bullshit about a game you don't understand and obviously can't play.

4) It is not possible to correctly simulate CQB in these circumstances, regardless of clipping. Buildings have many objects that could be used as cover.

5) It is not possible to change the AI logics and make them seek cover first. This is why they shoot from prone but in open ground, almost never from cover (not intentionally it seems) and they surely don't use sub-stances.

6) It is not possible to "humanize" the AI skills: an AI that is compelled to shoot from the open must have an instant aim, regardless of the situation and an almost unerring shot.

7) It is not possible to fix the damage model. The AI will shrug bullets off and nonchalantly still be combat effective, since it must fight from open ground.

8) It is not possible to have weapons resting on scenery for increased stability.

9) It is not possible to have bipods working.

10) It is not possible to call this a simulation things so important still amiss.

This is all either hysterically irrational or intellectually dishonest. It's nonsense. There is no relation between this and clipping issues. Bipods?!? Are you high?

Bullshit. I called you out, you coward, I explained your erroneous thinking to you. You ignored the post, as you ignore all rebuttals.

It's time to lock this thread because the OP doesn't RESPOND to counter-arguments or valid posts. He just reiterates ad nauseum in a strikingly inept fashion.

This isn't a discussion. It's an extended interactive rant, a thread as the OP's personal platform to flame the devs as often as possible, using a bizarrely pedantic lack of comprehension of the gameplay on his part to whine about all the rest of the game's shortcoming.