Buildings devoid of life....

[Smurf 12]

They didn't have the time to put into doing it properly, so they didn't do it.

Why this game even exist then? oO

[bad benson 1733]

They didn't have the time to put into doing it properly, so they didn't do it.

probably yea. at least much much more likely than "yea let's make them clean wiped empty, look it looks great".

Not to mention the AI. The AI don't handle populated buildings well at all.

where do people get that from? sure if you fill a house with mission objects, the AI will go nuts. but i can't remember one single time the AI got stuck on furniture. it's a myth. AI has 100% predestined paths inside buildings. there's no way they can "decide" to walk against a part of the model. they rather ignore collision alltogether. try locking a door and see how well it keep AI out.

you can argue that BI had no time to do it or that they (obviously) decided that polies and sections are better used for view obstructing, unmoveable, set in stone window shutters and doors everywhere inside buildings that you can't even properly open with the action menu and get stuck on all the time. everybody knows that. but let's not try to find made up reasons why it's a bad idea to make a building look finished and less sterile.

The AI don't handle populated buildings well at all.

the AI don't handle buildings at all unless you force them. for a reason...

Edited October 21, 2013 by Bad Benson

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well if you put OFP quality furniture in A3 buildings, and OFP quality interiors in A3 tanks, the sort of people who start threads like these would instantly be up in arms about the "crappy quality" or the "half finished content".

They didn't have the time to put into doing it properly, so they didn't do it. Who knows if they'll populate the buildings with the first campaign release (my guess is not, because if you place the objects into the buildings via visitor they're "there for good", and if you add them in the mission the amount of items reduce performance).

Not to mention the AI. The AI don't handle populated buildings well at all. So they may have decided to leave them empty for gameplay reasons.

Yes yes. I perfectly understand that choices have to be made, for whatever reason (and i suspect it has nothing to do with AI not handling furnitures well..). I still think that A3 is a "technically and visually better" game than OFP or A2, but all those "reasonable" choices are making each iteration more boring than the previous. I guess A4 will be about accounting.

Edited October 21, 2013 by ProfTournesol
typos...so many of them...

[OMAC 254]

All what you call "eye candy", i call it immersion. But who is wearing tinted glasses, that's the question.

+1 Yeah! :)

Sometimes all it takes is a single, mysterious trunk in an attic (CWR2)

or an armoir:

or sometimes going for broke, like in Viktor's office on Nogova:

And Martin and company has already done it to perfection, so I know they can do it again:

[m1lkm8n 410]

...I guess A4 will be about accounting.

You'll have to stand tho cause there will be no furniture there either.

[bad benson 1733]

Sometimes all it takes is a single, mysterious trunk in an attic (CWR2)

haha. exactly. not much is needed.

[CptMacMillan 20]

And people still condemned the A3 development progress as "beta" or half "asset" for not having ... furniture?

That's pathetic.

[smokedog3para 365]

And people still condemned the A3 development progress as "beta" or half "asset" for not having ... furniture?

That's pathetic.

its kind of hard to make a detailed looking terrain with not many objects to place down in oxygen to make it look how you want, it just makes more work and will make terrains take longer as we will have to make our own objects to get the terrains to be believable that they are lived in\on

[m1lkm8n 410]

And people still condemned the A3 development progress as "beta" or half "asset" for not having ... furniture?

That's pathetic.

I think you'll find that's part of the issue. When they released a3 it had no jets, no campaign was/still is buggy as hell. It's a great game so far don't get me wrong. But it's no final release.

[froggyluv 2130]

If you look underneath the surface of the majority of "BI do this" threads, the theme may be different but the subtext is the same. You have a group aka "Complainers", either asking or demanding that BI do "x" -that being add more content, redo the sound engine, switch to Outerra, add furniture, more fishees, rewrite the entire code to 64 bit etc... The second group aka "Fanbois/enablers" that tend to think these are either outside the scope of the game, too much work, or just unfair to ask of an already overburdened game built on a house of cards.

At the end of the day, we are all a special group of niche gamers that want a fulfilling continuation of the mindblowing experience we had with OFP and in that sense are on the same page. Hopefully we also all want to support BI to continue this rare type of gaming as one can easily see it is a rarity among the mindless hordes of simplified games swallowing previous quality titles whole and spitting out utter baby diaper with limited identity in its place.

That said, it is my personal belief that this will be the last iteration of an OFP game minus DayZ. The handwriting is on the wall for all to see -Maruk, Suma, pretty much all the old crew have moved on to support a less intensive, bigger money maker and I see little reason why they would continue this series. I also hold the belief that this series is built on a house of cards, the house of the landmark Operation Flashpoint, a game no other company has come close to matching even 12 years later. Dayz, as impressive as it is, is still a piggyback job on the OFP engine and until someone makes a real, standalone game on another engine, OFP reigns supreme (for our niche) after all these years.

So it's not just about furniture, I'd like to have it as well -it's about perspective in that this is most likely the last of it's kind for a long, long time and again, me personally -keeps my expectations in check and decide to just enjoy the ride.

[progamer 14]

If you look underneath the surface of the majority of "BI do this" threads, the theme may be different but the subtext is the same. You have a group aka "Complainers", either asking or demanding that BI do "x" -that being add more content, redo the sound engine, switch to Outerra, add furniture, more fishees, rewrite the entire code to 64 bit etc... The second group aka "Fanbois/enablers" that tend to think these are either outside the scope of the game, too much work, or just unfair to ask of an already overburdened game built on a house of cards.

At the end of the day, we are all a special group of niche gamers that want a fulfilling continuation of the mindblowing experience we had with OFP and in that sense are on the same page. Hopefully we also all want to support BI to continue this rare type of gaming as one can easily see it is a rarity among the mindless hordes of simplified games swallowing previous quality titles whole and spitting out utter baby diaper with limited identity in its place.

That said, it is my personal belief that this will be the last iteration of an OFP game minus DayZ. The handwriting is on the wall for all to see -Maruk, Suma, pretty much all the old crew have moved on to support a less intensive, bigger money maker and I see little reason why they would continue this series. I also hold the belief that this series is built on a house of cards, the house of the landmark Operation Flashpoint, a game no other company has come close to matching even 12 years later. Dayz, as impressive as it is, is still a piggyback job on the OFP engine and until someone makes a real, standalone game on another engine, OFP reigns supreme (for our niche) after all these years.

So it's not just about furniture, I'd like to have it as well -it's about perspective in that this is most likely the last of it's kind for a long, long time and again, me personally -keeps my expectations in check and decide to just enjoy the ride.

Many devs really enjoy Arma, I doubt Arma 3 will be the last, but Arma 4 won't come for at least 5 years.

Edited October 21, 2013 by ProGamer

[LoneCrow66 10]

I saw they added some basic objects in the last week for inside. I think they should include a lot of pre-made objects for people at least if they want to attempt to make some missions in a single town or something. At least then it doesn't need to load a lot of objects only the stuff in the immediate area.

[bad benson 1733]

And people still condemned the A3 development progress as "beta" or half "asset" for not having ... furniture?

That's pathetic.

of course! lots of people have said in this thread that arma 3 is in beta state because of missing furniture and only furniture. because obviously that's the only part that is unfinished and certainly the most important one. i've seen that statement so many times.......thinking break......oh wait!

i think the only pathetic thing here are your reading and comprehension skills.

geez. some people try way to hard...

You have a group aka "Complainers", either asking or demanding that BI do "x" -that being add more content, redo the sound engine, switch to Outerra, add furniture, more fishees, rewrite the entire code to 64 bit etc... The second group aka "Fanbois/enablers" that tend to think these are either outside the scope of the game, too much work, or just unfair to ask of an already overburdened game built on a house of cards.

your examples of brought up issues are as different as the opinions and people in this forum. people are trying way to hard to make this a black and white two sided thing. i fail to see how asking BI to move to outerra is the same thing as asking for some furniture like in previous games. why the need to generalize that way? to me this kind of generalization is exactly the problem here. some people act like this here is just an objective discussion about a possible feature when posts like that just show that it's all more about stupid hurt feelings. i couldn't care less if someone can't take a criticism or suggestion towards BI because they are in some imagined relationship with their favourite dev team. why do these people have to be all over threads like this?

why does one have to overreact to the slightest suggestion and criticism trying to reason perfectly fine ideas away all the time? the number of times the OP was accused of wanted furniture prioritized over other features is frustratingly high. same goes for attempts of trying to explain what technical problems lead to the furniture being left out. if you honestly look at the arguments and facts you will see that it's not as clear as people try to make it look in an attempt to just end this discussion with "not possible cuz...". so i'd appreciate if people could stop doing that.

infact while DM seems to suffer from the same syndrom he is one of the few people who acknowledged the fact that furniture might just not have made it into the game like so many other things and is not missing because of imagined reason X.

please read the first post of this thread with it's hilarious "don't freak, i still love this game"-excuse upfront. it just shows perfectly fine what a place this forum has become.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Bad Benson

[windies 11]

Most people only see in black and white. There's no middle ground and no understanding unless it falls in line with their logic or "your" logic as they see it. Most people think that if you criticize, it's to hurt or to cause harm to something. They don't understand that the real reason for it is to hopefully improve. I criticize a hell of a lot and sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right, if you want to view it that way. The only thing that really bugs me is when people take it to mean that I hate what I'm criticizing or mean to do it harm. Sometimes I think people read text and put their own made up emotion behind the words rather than actually trying to understand what the poster is trying to say.

Anyways, about the furniture, it's definitely an immersion killer to walk into a room and it looks like some prefab model home with absolutely no decoration. Especially if you're trying to portray some sort of conflict in a populated area. I haven't seen anyone yet say that it needs to be a top priority, but more so that it's definitely an issue and it needs to be addressed. I especially like the argument against the shutters, those things drive me effing nuts. I would gladly get rid of those if we could use the extra poly count to make the actual buildings look more "alive".

[CptMacMillan 20]

Most people only see in black and white. There's no middle ground and no understanding unless it falls in line with their logic or "your" logic as they see it. Most people think that if you criticize, it's to hurt or to cause harm to something. They don't understand that the real reason for it is to hopefully improve. I criticize a hell of a lot and sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right, if you want to view it that way. The only thing that really bugs me is when people take it to mean that I hate what I'm criticizing or mean to do it harm. Sometimes I think people read text and put their own made up emotion behind the words rather than actually trying to understand what the poster is trying to say.

Is not about about what is logically correct when argument 1 is intermediately counter by "you're wrong and therefore your logic is not right". Is a matter of opinion, opinion A vs opinion B, the sweet irony of it is that when opinion A is criticized while opinion A is indeed a criticism, opinion A on itself doesn't hold up to be a factual statement, which is what this whole "buildings devoted of life" is trying to be.

I think everyone would like to see interiors, but is it really necessary? or in fact does it make the game less complete? Of course not. ArmA III turns out to be the most stable release of the series (people who played ArmA II 1.0 will know what I'm talking about) and thus far the assets tent to be the more balanced in the series given the engine in which it is working (granted, they are not complete but ArmA itself was delayed, and then it's beta and full release were provided in 3 different states at 3 different prices, Alpha for 20 USD, Beta for 40 USD, and final release for 60 USD).

The problem relays on perspective, you cannot expect someone like Sony, Microsoft, EA or Activision going for something with the same scope of ArmA, but people tent to treat the game in the same way of an ordinary FPS for consoles, which is pretty childish on itself. Secondly ArmA and OFP has always being WIP, given all player requests and what people expected to see after they played DayZ and ArmA II OA people just tent to loose the conception of what the series is all about: authentic warfare simulation (or a proxy of it, since the actual thing that is given to the real military is the virtual Reality Engine, which is the closest approximation to real warfare).

CQC is something people wanted to have, and is now given now that the freedom of getting into any building has been given. But now people also want furniture ... because it looks pretty? the smallest round in the game can penetrate ordinary wood, so it serves nothing to the gameplay or realism level, the engine itself and the objects that are in it are already overloaded (and IMO pretty well optimized, given the set ups in which I've seen it work), and for a mission designer it serves no purpose because the AI would get stuck on it, the scale of some battles would have to be reduced because of more crap thrown to the engine that increases the game load.

My opinion is my opinion, but people who have a different opinion will simply shot down the logic behind such opinion for the mere fact of ignoring these basis, in favour of diminish the game for not giving them what they want, which in itself is based on what FPS players on consoles want. And that pretty much tells a lot of what this thread is all about, a mere request and dismissal of the progress of the game based on ... thin air. It would make sense once CQC on ArmA is perfected, but given the state in which it actually is ... is more important to focus on actually more important issues.

[katipo66 94]

so i'd appreciate if people could stop doing that.

Sorry, you dont own the internet.. its a public forum, we all have opinions and counter opinions which we (all of us) are free to express, this is a storm in a tea cup.. my opinion :)

[bad benson 1733]

you misread. in "stop doing that". that is refering to what i wrote before that. which is: "attempt to just end this discussion with 'not possible cuz...'". in this case "not possible cuz..." is hardly an opinion. it's a claim. there is a difference.

i also like how you turn "i'd apreciate if people could.." into "i ownz zhe internetz" :p

Edited October 22, 2013 by Bad Benson

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Many devs really enjoy Arma, I doubt Arma 3 will be the last, but Arma 4 won't come for at least 5 years.

Hmm I'd like to believe this and there may yet be time for it to happen but with the latest developments between Cryengine and Star Citizen I smell change in the wind. Star Citizen is dragging Cryengine back to PC with 64bit min, and an increased float point. And will combine 'tactical' FPS with ground vehicles and space combat and modding support. Now I agree it would be foolish to declare a single sci-fi game some sort of competition or replacement to a mil-sim style game like ArmA, but the biggest drawcard for the OFP engine has always been the size of the maps, the combination of different unit types and a feeling of being part of something big. If game devs happen to find an engine that allows them this sort of scope off the shelf then by comparison ArmAs scope doesn't look as big or as unique, and possibly not as attractive to PC gamers.

Please don't take this as some sort of doomsday prophecy for ArmA, but I think froggyluv does have a point. Many of the core ArmA devs have hinted that they would like to move on, as everyone is want to do from time to time. If a trend takes off to develop 64bit min games that take advantage of PCs, it could easily deter the will to work further on OFPs 32bit engine.

Still its going to take time. BIS certainly have enough time to milk A3 for a few years with DLC's, and the community might even survive another decade or more. But ArmA4? I don't know. Maybe they will play it smart and tick a few more things off the bucket list via DLC and patches till they make the idea of A4 redundant. Its becoming clear that a significant step up from the current would basically require a new engine from scratch. And BIS already have another proprietary engine in their stable under Carrier Command and TOM, so its clear they know they have to move with the times. Lets just hope there will always be someone out there doing a mil-sim game.

[froggyluv 2130]

Hmm I'd like to believe this and there may yet be time for it to happen but with the latest developments between Cryengine and Star Citizen I smell change in the wind. Star Citizen is dragging Cryengine back to PC with 64bit min, and an increased float point. And will combine 'tactical' FPS with ground vehicles and space combat and modding support. Now I agree it would be foolish to declare a single sci-fi game some sort of competition or replacement to a mil-sim style game like ArmA, but the biggest drawcard for the OFP engine has always been the size of the maps, the combination of different unit types and a feeling of being part of something big. If game devs happen to find an engine that allows them this sort of scope off the shelf then by comparison ArmAs scope doesn't look as big or as unique, and possibly not as attractive to PC gamers.

Interesting in that I literally just pledged to Star Citizen and got my ship/hangar minutes before checking these threads :)

Got to be honest, I already have the anticipation of some real magic awaiting the opening of those hangar doors -the type of "wonder whats out there...." I've craving since the original OFP days. Not that I don't enjoy Arma, I really do but I guess after years in the editor or fiddling with latest AI mods, some of the magic is gone and it's time to leave my Asperger like Arma-only obsession behind, if not only for a while until I get a mil-sim craving again.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

I wonder if star citizen will have furniture?

[10t 12]

Without in any way suggesting where it should come in the development priorities list, I just want to add that I'll appreciate some furniture in buildings.

I've just finished building a (clumsy, inept, but personally satisfying) mission that involves entering a few key buildings. I spent frigging hours learning about SetPosATL and AttachTo in order to furnish some of the rooms believably. My reasons were threefold:

1) Camouflage - Clearing buildings is so much more of a challenge when it's more than just "There is something in this room that isn't a featureless wall: shoot it". It's the indoor equivalent of the trees and rocks all over the outside portions of the island.

2) Immersion - It makes the buildings feel about a billion times more lived in, which helps me (and hopefully the dudes I'll play it with) get into the vibe ("It's Mabo, it's the Constitution...") of the story. Without which there's not really much point.

3) Eye candy - Fine. I like pretty things. I'm ok with that.

Sure; it took ages to do, the AI pathfinding in the populated buildings is a bit messed up (but still works where I need it to), and I might have lost 2 or 3 fps because of it but I was happy to do it because of the above rewards. I guess that all I'm saying is that several mission makers will get a lot of value out of a bit of furniture in places.

I have no idea what the best implementation will be, nor who should do it, nor when it should be done. Trying to balance ease (just pre-populate the buildings with stock furniture!), with flexibility (and this will be the briefing room, and that will be General Gubaslavislav's office!), and performace (give me All The Polygons!) is not something I'm equipped to do, but any increase in furniture (including optional furniture) will be an improvement on the Island of the Damned vibe we've got going on now. And whoever does it will have my gratitude.

[smokedog3para 365]

still some furniture from a1 sample mlods to be ported, beds chairs tables pictures and sorts ive made a start on it already an a1 objects pack untill the a2 sample models are released.

[bad benson 1733]

well appearently for some people it's more important, if recycling models will make someone complain, than the actual state of the game improving. i'd personally be already happy with some texture changes that make the houses look more dirty and used inside and the occasional single pushed over (or not) piece of furniture (why nor recycled. the one single jet is recycled so who the f cares).

[lappihuan 178]

Martin is talking about free DLC's to the map.

This may include forniture in buildings.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

As a mission maker, I NEED furniture in the buildings as part of a convincing story. Yes I can place all the objects if I have to, but wouldn't my time be better spent actually making the mission?

It's a BIS job, not my job as far as I'm concerned. Seriously, at the moment the villages are a step back from OA, maybe 2.

---------- Post added at 08:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ----------

One of the most puzzling things for me at this stage is why would BIS not port all of the old objects straight into a3? Why start from scratch?

Sadly, I feel this work will fall to scripters/ modders to fix.