Launch, travel and entry cutscene

[Demongornot 10]

Actually the game miss something really nice that a lot of people i'm sure will be happy to have !

Cutescene !!! of course skipable one (their is already a key for skip cutscene, i don't know if it mean that we will get some cutscene for launch and entry or if it for something else).

See the rocket being launch and the entry phase are both really nice !

Rather than spend time in long animation why not including video files ?

What i mean :

An option for cutscene where we choose Realistic, Cinematic and No Cutscene.

For example the Realistic one can be a video of the rocket launch from NASA

The Cinematic one can be a Tribute style one.

For example for the Large Rover style we can pic Curiosity video, for Medium Rover a Spirit and/or Opportunity one, for small rover a Mars Pathfinder video.

For the small Lander a Viking video and for the large lander a Phoenix one.

Example for a large rover :

In realistic this video for the launch :

a black screen with X month latter write on it (based on real one or not) and for the landing http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=945_1344441527 A nice thing will be to be able to skip the first without need to skip the second one.

I know it is long but anyway this is not an action game but a game where sometime we need to be patient, if someone like the realistic side and don't care about the "long aspect" he will probably like to see the Nasa's monitors style.

For the entry and approach on Realistic cutscene use this video in fullscreen + in the top right corner for example at the last moment the image from the game (at the right time for make feel that we have data screen on center and decent camera at the right top as a feedback from Mars) they need to be synchronized but this is not necessary to make them perfectly synchronized anyway and it can lets you improve the realism of the final stage before landing !

If something goes wrong in the game like a huge failure, a music start and the game goes full screen !

For the Cinematic one a video like this can be nice :

No one force to use this one but one like this can be nice ! but need to cut the video at the right moment to switch just after the landing to the full game, in this video at 3:35 this is perfect for switch to the decent camera view, mainly with the music that can be perfectly stop at this time !

Another Cinematic style can be this one

and for this video just after they said that they have the signal and before we see the landing platform opening (since the vehicle in the game are not the perfect replica of the real equivalent) can be a perfect transition to a vehicle spawn on the ground next to the landing area that we have choose.

The synchronization between game and video is not needed.

If we use no cutscene or in Cinematic one skip it, it make us have the actual game one that show the final moment before the landing (just before the release of the thermal shield) and in Realistic mode since the game run in the same time if we skip it will just disabled the cutscene and bring the game to the right top corner to normal full screen.

I hope you will considering this !

It don't require a huge work next to highly complicated 3D animation that consume a lot of time and resource, video are already done and i'm sure some HD one are free to use and NASA and JPL will probably agree to give you some of them !

It make feel like their is a real launch, a huge cost, a team work (and it give credit to the incredible JPL team) rather than just spawn on the red planet like if it is "normal" !

Edited October 27, 2013 by Demongornot

[dram 14]

Hi, cheers for the suggestion. In the very near future, you will actually be able to watch the launch sequence - where the rocket counts down and flies off. There are also ideas about having the player control the phase prior to entering the Martian atmosphere, but this is on the nice to have list, while the rocket launch sequence is about 70% complete.

[Demongornot 10]

Thanks for answer and nice to read that !

This is sad that you do a 3D scene and other animation for rocket launch when we have a lot of HD video available everywhere on internet and NASA website !

It is a nice thing but it consume a lot of time to do it !

[felthat 1]

id put cinematics and videos in encyclopedia, in space program/game only controllable scenes/parts/phases, something Dram mentioned

[Demongornot 10]

id put cinematic and videos in encyclopedia, in space program/game only controllable scenes/parts/phases, something Dram mentioned

Or why not both ?

Lets people have the choice to use 3D animation or for those who prefer have a real video which are visually way better (and can't be more immersive and realistic) than any 3D animations, feel that this is real...

I have always trouble to watch 3D scene with animation, it look too fake, sometime we see some improbable/impossible or ridiculously bad done things and so one...

For a fictional thing ok, but for something that based on real i think it can be really nice, and it avoid devs to wast time on (some time ugly) 3D animations way too short that require a lot of time that can be simply using for something else...

And no choice for those who prefer see a realistic control monitor rather than see a rocket go away over a low resolution earth with cinematic camera that are everything except realistic...

I should have prefer to see video that include entry (the best part for me) and the landing including the bouncing rover with inflatable balloon rather than the actual one where the balloon inflate too slow, the lander bonce at an unrealistic way, look unrealistic when deflated or the too much plastic and toys looking of the Large Rover rocket decent stage etc etc...

And for the Encyclopedia yes why not but as optional, cause this will take too much HDD size...

[felthat 1]

encyclopedia will be there anyway

i meant: put there any video ya want, cgi, real one, i dont care

what i was tellin: dont put cutscenes in gameplay, closest to this should be automatic sequences (as u have now with landing) that u can turn on to manual

one exception i can think of right now would be starting sequence in the beginning of space program, only one, no need for more

[Demongornot 10]

I think we all want Encyclopedia anyway...

And for the cutscene if you don't want it don't mean that no one want it...I want to have this, and like i have an option for disabled them will be nice, so their is no problems...

When a rocket launch it is FULLY automatic and NEVER anyone have use manual control on a rocket and will probably never, so when we have a 100% non playable scene, i don't see the issue that replace it with cutscene for those who want it...

[dram 14]

Thanks for answer and nice to read that !

This is sad that you do a 3D scene and other animation for rocket launch when we have a lot of HD video available everywhere on internet and NASA website !

It is a nice thing but it consume a lot of time to do it !

Well the problem is that we do not have the rights to use such material, and can therefore not include it in the game. The other advantage of using in game scenes is that you can influence them in various ways - a video of a rover landing means it is not influenced by terrain, rocks and the environment on which it is landing. In a physically simulated scene, however, the environment plays an important role in the way the landing plays out, affecting the way the game goes.

Seeing the same video every time becomes boring very quickly and leads to the player skipping it, but a proper physically simulated landing means the players are nervous during it whether they chose a good landing location and so on, adding to the gameplay.

[felthat 1]

but i wrote that rocket launch would be exception...

and i dont rly get you "i want this, i want that, add 9999 options so everyones happy", BIS should follow their vision, with lil help of our feedback

wherever u can u should put playable part insted of cutscene, which would be skipped after first time

sayin that they should put something there because someone wants it is also pointless, im fan of buggy racer but i dont want it to be rally sim (if you don't want it don't mean that no one want it)

Edited October 16, 2013 by FeltHat

[Ryder 10]

I think that everyone is missing something here...

Cut Scenes?

One of the big reasons that Kerbal Space Program is so popular... massively so, is that users get to solve the problems of getting their hardware to it's destination in one piece.

To my mind... the science is the smallest possible piece of interest in such a game as TOM.

The REAL challenge, and where I'm certain that most people will get the most enjoyment, is solving the problem of landing.

This is the one true challenge that a game like TOM might offer... it's dynamic, it's exciting, and it allows for creativity.

The science missions simply don't have any of that...

What heat shield do you select?

What parachute? When do you deploy it?

Did you bring enough fuel?

Did you navigate properly to hit your intended landing site?

Did you enter too steeply... too shallow?

These questions and these challenges deserve far, far more than a cutscene, and should probably represent the core challenges of TOM... landing and then doing science would be icing on the cake.

A cutscene for take off and the journey to Mars... sure... that sounds great, but the player should be taking charge while in orbit.

Our personal experience with the real Mars rover landings was that the landings them selves were far and away the most exciting part of the entire mission... and the first photo back was the real prize.

By not having this part of the mission available, TOM is less than it could be, and is missing the important bits that KSP has that make it such a success.

R

[Demongornot 10]

...

Read again what i have write, i talk about cut-scene for launching and trip to Mars...

I don't think entry will be part of the 3D animation.

I talk about something BETTER and WAY MORE REALISTIC visually than a 3D model with poor graphic realism cause of low detailed, bad textures, bad smoke effect, wrong timing, strange shake, no correct lightning, unrealistic camera angle, bad sound etc etc...

With all respect due to codders and 3D designer, i know they can't do something about all of this, this is a technology and also time and resource limitation...

But i prefer see this :

Rather than this :

And it is not even sure that we can get voice recorded from real launch

And i don't see any problem to include video if we can still have the option to watch the 3D version also...

And the entry is for me one of the best part, beautiful flame, beautiful effect and more and more, i prefer 1000 time have a cinematic scene rather than a 2D real time animation...

I really want this :

Rather than this :

I talk about cutscenes for launch, trip and entry mainly...

Also for final decent and landing i have talk about lets the game running in background and visible in for example the top right corner when we have decent camera, and even if a video is playing in full screen, the game STILL do the same thing than actually, this is not a magic teleportation on the ground and if something happen, any emergency, the game back in full screen and we see what happen, rather than see a cinematic totally desynchronized from the game.

For the half realistic only, the cinematic where we see reentry is perfect, and for those who like realism their is no more realistic thing than this : http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=945_1344441527 which is EXACTLY what people have seen from the NASA screen during the entry, and still be possible to include in the right top corner the decent camera only (external view disabled) for a feel realistic and see what happen on the game but without really be 100% realistic...

I don't see any issue of using a cinematic custscene of the game is running in the same time, weather, heat shield, weight...Everything will count like if their is no cutscene, this is just WAY better for those who look it and anyway their can be an option for disabled cutscene, this is not the most hardest options even to make and play a video is not the biggest challenge that devs can have, this is not even the longest thing, a mail to the NASA to get HD version of all available video and that's it, some hours of editing if they want and in a day maybe 2 maximum including all test this is done, this will just took a little more space in the HDD...And everyone is free to disabled video option and delete them from HDD, or BIS is free to make it optional like DayZ or HD Texture pack for Skyrim for example.

I think realistic entry (not visually but i talk about trajectory) is probably not possible, if you miss the landing area where your probe will land considering the small martian map ?

The only solution is cutscene or 100% scripted (which will be stupid next to cut-scene, it will take a lot of work to do, a lot of fix, and will not be realistic some time and visually definitely not matching with what a video can give.

Orbiter and KSP have a 3D model for the whole planet, including a 3D model for landing/low altitude...

i'm sure TKOM will never have this and if only it can have this i really prefer that they invest money, time and resource on something else and more important/needed rather than something that can't be 100% right simulated, will cause a lot of issues, took too much efforts and will finally be easily and way better done with a video with a "probability of failure during reentry" calculation and a cut-scene for the desintegration rather than a real time fully simulated thing including trajectory...

KSP is a toy, not so realistic, it just handle basic physic and a few ridiculously small part of the main thing of rockets and other space ships, definitely not able to reproduce real things.

Orbiter is way more complex but default space craft have not enough data, some of them like the XR2

have a good simulation of aerodynamic pressure and temperature, but this is only on basic, the crash of the space shuttle Columbia can't be simulated, but still more advanced than KSP, and professional people have work on it...

I think we can't see realistic reentry and everything that they can try, a cut-scene with a calculation of failure based on some data ruing in background and another cutscenes for see the space craft disintegrated into the atmosphere will be way better than everything that they can done...In vanilla Orbiter we can't have disintegration during reentry cause even if the game is really complete, he is not for handle this without addons...

And again no offence against them, this is the same for every other software/game/simulator except those that real space agency use...

And my solution rather than save time and resource give a better visual result.

[Ryder 10]

I think that if the landing is off course such that it misses the landing zone... then the mission says the craft is lost and the mission is a failure... so yes, dealing with a bad approach seems very possible.

A little creative thinking goes a long way.

The method KSP uses is to support all flight modes, and then add realism. I think it is a mistake to add realism to limited flight modes... it only means that development is unbalanced... a refined roving mode... but a very limited landing mode. It makes for an uneven experience.

What I learned from KSP surprised me. I discovered that the Kerbal characters were vital to the enjoyment of the game, and I have no doubt that this is what is causing KSP to be popular. As NASA learned, the hardware needs to become a character. The rovers need to become that character, and have names.

I also learned that the simulation does not have to be accurate, but it does need to seem realistic in what it does. Perception is slightly more important than accuracy in this case.

Mass appeal for TOM will probably require that the simulation become a bit more of a toy. Not a lot... but a little. It needs a friendly face. It needs to be forgiving where it is now frustrating. For example, the wheels do need to stay on... unless very seriously bumped in a fall. We don't need the instruments breaking on the rocks in order to create false challenge where it is not enjoyable to have it.

Designing a mission then seeing if your design works, is a huge part of what makes KSP worth coming back to. I grew tired of TOM after one evening. I have been returning to KSP again and again. Creativity is the key. Letting users be creative in how they design their landing in all of the various ways would be the best and most exciting challenge I can think of.

This is important.

The landing could be separated into two phases... one is the entry phase that is rather generic with respect to actual navigation to the landing site... once through this phase... the actual landing site can then be placed beneath the lander for the final few thousand meters... previously obscured by dust or somesuch.

I really do hope that the developers realize the potential and promise of designing the landing configuration and sequencing.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Ryder

[Leader 0]

I think that everyone is missing something here...

Cut Scenes?

One of the big reasons that Kerbal Space Program is so popular... massively so, is that users get to solve the problems of getting their hardware to it's destination in one piece.

To my mind... the science is the smallest possible piece of interest in such a game as TOM.

The REAL challenge, and where I'm certain that most people will get the most enjoyment, is solving the problem of landing.

This is the one true challenge that a game like TOM might offer... it's dynamic, it's exciting, and it allows for creativity.

The science missions simply don't have any of that...

What heat shield do you select?

What parachute? When do you deploy it?

Did you bring enough fuel?

Did you navigate properly to hit your intended landing site?

Did you enter too steeply... too shallow?

These questions and these challenges deserve far, far more than a cutscene, and should probably represent the core challenges of TOM... landing and then doing science would be icing on the cake.

A cutscene for take off and the journey to Mars... sure... that sounds great, but the player should be taking charge while in orbit.

Our personal experience with the real Mars rover landings was that the landings them selves were far and away the most exciting part of the entire mission... and the first photo back was the real prize.

By not having this part of the mission available, TOM is less than it could be, and is missing the important bits that KSP has that make it such a success.

R

Your spot on.