ARMA 3 Graphics and Performance Analysis

[Hameedo 10]

This is a video discussing ARMA 3 graphics and performance , what do you guys think about the points mentioned :

[Flash Thunder 10]

Wow that was harsh

there are some things graphically that I can't stand still in Arma 3 but i really think the physics engine is the biggest let down its very rigid still. Im definitely not convinced Physx paid off.

[windies 11]

It's harsh but ultimately true. Also he raises a good point, if this game was multi-platform, it would be easier to forgive the lack of proper use of hardware. They say they focus on the PC, because of the power of PC's but then their engine can't make use of that power.

I also can't disagree with most of the points about graphics either.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Windies

[NeMeSiS 11]

I disagree with the lightning and fog comments, they are absolutely beautiful. Has he never seen the new fog system?

His assesment of performance is quite poor, recognizing it is heavy on the CPU, but not recognizing it is very efficient on the GPU, being able to make very nice scenes on a 3 year old 4870.

Though i guess the lack of dynamic shadows is a fair point considering high end GPU's are barely used at all, should not be taxing on the CPU (AFAIK), and thus have room to spare.

I also agree with his point about the physics. PhysX feels a bit weird in every game, but in ArmA3 it barely seems present at all, and comparing just driving between ArmA2 and 3 i cant help but feel dissapointed. It is different sure, but not really better.

Overall i thought the guy was a bit whiny, and expecting too much considering the scale, which he mentioned, but then he compared ArmA3 to Crysis anyway.

EDIT: The only other video on that channel complains about the BF 4 beta not running well on windows7 while it runs fine on windows8, which is something is really something you can chalk up to it being a beta, which is acknowledged in the beginning, but then it gets whiny about it anyway.

Edited October 14, 2013 by NeMeSiS

[Flash Thunder 10]

I agree NeMeSiS

Even Far Cry 3 doesn't run very well on my system which I dunno why my GPU uses 1.5GB of Vram typically at 1680x1050 high/ultra settings

Arma 3 is way more impressive than Far Cry 3 when it comes to shear object and draw distance (minus the lackluster terrain textures at range).

[windies 11]

I disagree with the lightning and fog comments, they are absolutely beautiful. Has he never seen the new fog system?

His assesment of performance is quite poor, recognizing it is heavy on the CPU, but not recognizing it is very efficient on the GPU, being able to make very nice scenes on a 3 year old 4870.

Though i guess the lack of dynamic shadows is a fair point considering high end GPU's are barely used at all, should not be taxing on the CPU (AFAIK), and thus have room to spare.

I also agree with his point about the physics. PhysX feels a bit weird in every game, but in ArmA3 it barely seems present at all, and comparing just driving between ArmA2 and 3 i cant help but feel dissapointed. It is different sure, but not really better.

Overall i thought the guy was a bit whiny, and expecting too much considering the scale, which he mentioned, but then he compared ArmA3 to Crysis anyway.

EDIT: The only other video on that channel complains about the BF 4 beta not running well on windows7 while it runs fine on windows8, which is something is really something you can chalk up to it being a beta, which is acknowledged in the beginning, but then it gets whiny about it anyway.

For ArmA, yeah the fog and lighting is better. I've seen much better fog and lighting effects in many other games though. What do you compare it to? Do you always compare ArmA to ArmA or do you compare it to other games in general?

Also his assessment on performance is true when you factor in real world ArmA scenario's and the performance associated with them. This is the only program I've ever seen where usage drops under load. It's akin to Prime95 all of a sudden only using 50% of every core instead of the typical 100% when it encounters a harder prime equation and then saying it's normal.

I didn't really think he was whiny, just a little over critical sounding in his judgement.

[Tonci87 163]

It does sound like a rant at first, but he has valid points (minus the fog, I like how that looks). Especially the lack of dynamic shadows is very important. Hell I would have been happy with solid objects obstructing light sources.

The Age of the Engine starts to show more and more. It needs to be optimized for multicore CPUs

[dm 9]

Opens with "uses tessalation on heads but nothing else".

Closed. Typical armchair expert. Full of comments, no actual knowledge...

[Dwarden 1124]

@DM exactly :) i must grin

his first mistake is that while the game uses DX11 it's also running on DX10 ...

(that by itself limits what the engine can do to keep visual uniformity across both)

Edited October 14, 2013 by Dwarden

[Hameedo 10]

@DM exactly :) i must grin

his first mistake is that while the game uses DX11 it's also running on DX10 ...

(that by itself limits what the engine can do to keep visual uniformity across both)

Don't think that counts as a mistake at all !

Opens with "uses tessalation on heads but nothing else".

Closed. Typical armchair expert. Full of comments, no actual knowledge...

He specifically said the application of Tessellation appears limited at best .. listing examples of it's obvious lack on vehicles and even character's bodies ! I tend to agree with that observation .

[mistyronin 1181]

IMHO he has a few good points, but doesn't seem to understand the kind of game A3 is, the kind of studio that develops it and their goals.

I would understand a critic like this on a 200 people studio that develops mainstream games, but in this case it just doesn't seem appropiate.

[mamasan8 11]

One thing I noticed yesterday. My comp utilization is always 30% util. on CPU (fx-8350) and 40% on GPU EXCEPT...when I'm flying over water. Then it raises to 70% on GPU, with or without Caustics. This makes me wonder if Utilization is held back on purpose. Also, kinda weird that rendering water requires just as much from my graphics card (7870) as rendering of the rest of the world combined.

Edited October 14, 2013 by mamasan8

[dmarkwick 261]

He specifically said the application of Tessellation appears limited at best .. listing examples of it's obvious lack on vehicles and even character's bodies ! I tend to agree with that observation .

He specifically mentions tessellation when there is no tessellation at all, specifically or otherwise.

He also mentions what a lot of other people seem to believe - that a CPU not going 100% is evidence on an unoptimised engine. Far Cry uses 100%, whereas ArmA uses 60%..... and yet it's ArmA that is unoptimised? :D

[Dwarden 1124]

Don't think that counts as a mistake at all !

He specifically said the application of Tessellation appears limited at best .. listing examples of it's obvious lack on vehicles and even character's bodies ! I tend to agree with that observation .

that's massive mistake, because there is no hardware tesselation in DX10 ...

so NVIDIA cards with DX10 would be w/o tesselation (while AMD cards with DX10+ have tesselation unit you would need address specially)

you could use 'workaround' where NVIDIA simulate tesselation on DX10 using other techniques available on DX10 but on cost of performance and complexity of implementations

in short, he has no idea what he talks about (same goes about claims like "no use of hyperthreading" or smart VRAM talk (managed by OS/DX11 not unlike DX9 where engine can manages it)

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Opens with "uses tessalation on heads but nothing else".

Closed. Typical armchair expert. Full of comments, no actual knowledge...

While a few points are brought across that I agree with, this was my impression as well, the more the video went on, the more cringy it became. And it's not limited to the Arma 3 video, the only other content, BF4 video, I get the same cringy feeling.

Then I looked at the channel to see who "we" that he refers to are and realised it's basically someone that created a channel and refers to himself as "we" as if to project authority.

[chrisb 196]

I’m just sad that it seems to be all about the look of the game now and little to do with what the content is or how the content runs, i.e. vehicle handling (he has a point), also, ai, medic system, and the rest of the content that has been left behind, or not implemented, just to try and please the graphic hungry crowd, or mainstream runners..:(

[Tonci87 163]

I’m just sad that it seems to be all about the look of the game now and little to do with what the content is or how the content runs, i.e. vehicle handling (he has a point), also, ai, medic system, and the rest of the content that has been left behind, or not implemented, just to try and please the graphic hungry crowd, or mainstream runners..:(

^this

I personally don´t care that much about graphics if the content is good.

[Hameedo 10]

He specifically mentions tessellation when there is no tessellation at all, specifically or otherwise.

He also mentions what a lot of other people seem to believe - that a CPU not going 100% is evidence on an unoptimised engine. Far Cry uses 100%, whereas ArmA uses 60%..... and yet it's ArmA that is unoptimised? :D

Yes , when the game is acting like a resource hog , delivering low fps , than not fully utilizing the CPU is a colossal lack of optimization !

And if there really are no Tessellation at all , then that's even worse ! he may have gotten it wrong on the faces and heads ,but he was definitely spot on for the rest of the objects !

Edited October 14, 2013 by Hameedo

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I’m just sad that it seems to be all about the look of the game now and little to do with what the content is or how the content runs, i.e. vehicle handling (he has a point), also, ai, medic system, and the rest of the content that has been left behind, or not implemented, just to try and please the graphic hungry crowd, or mainstream runners..:(

^this

I personally don´t care that much about graphics if the content is good.

It's obviously not a review. I'm not sure what you expected from a video titled "ARMA 3 - Performance and Graphics Analysis". ;)

[chrisb 196]

It's obviously not a review. I'm not sure what you expected from a video titled "ARMA 3 - Performance and Graphics Analysis". ;)

Not talking about him, talking in general..

[froggyluv 2130]

After much thought and analysis I've also got a review:

- Runs goodish

- Looks great!

Now, where to publish my findings :386:

[Hameedo 10]

that's massive mistake, because there is no hardware tesselation in DX10 ...

so NVIDIA cards with DX10 would be w/o tesselation (while AMD cards with DX10+ have tesselation unit you would need address specially)

you could use 'workaround' where NVIDIA simulate tesselation on DX10 using other techniques available on DX10 but on cost of performance and complexity of implementations

in short, he has no idea what he talks about (same goes about claims like "no use of hyperthreading" or smart VRAM talk (managed by OS/DX11 not unlike DX9 where engine can manages it)

So using the DX11 path , does the game use Tessellation or not ?

Does the game also use Hyper-Threading ? many people have pointed out the game barely used 3 cores at all :

This means that ArmA 3 did not take advantage of our additional CPU core, something that is really ironic considering this is a PC exclusive title that relies heavily on the CPU.

http://www.dsogaming.com/pc-performance-analyses/arma-3-pc-performance-analysis/

[Sniperwolf572 758]

After much thought and analysis I've also got a review:

- Runs goodish

-Looks great!

Now, where to publish my findings :386:

Don't worry, here, I found you a soapbox. :cool:

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------

...

And if there really are no Tessellation at all , then that's even worse ! he may have gotten it wrong on the faces and heads ,but he was definitely spot on for the rest of the objects !

"I have x-ray vision"

"To prove you have x-ray vision, I've placed a pearl under one of these 1000 opaque cups, you have to find it"

"I pick the first one"

"Nope, I lied, there is no pearl"

"Well at least I was definitely spot on for the rest of the 999 cups so that proves that I have x-ray vision!"

:rolleyes:

[dmarkwick 261]

Yes , when the game is acting like a resource hog , delivering low fps , than not fully utilizing the CPU is a colossal lack of optimization !

And if there really are no Tessellation at all , then that's even worse ! he may have gotten it wrong on the faces and heads ,but he was definitely spot on for the rest of the objects !

I think the main point is, that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Added to that, he concentrates on odd things, like detail around a headlight to prove graphical incompetence. He doesn't see the big picture, therefore he doesn't see the game strengths. He's a graphic polygon-counter with no real vision of gameplay or environment.

[Hameedo 10]

I think the main point is, that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Added to that, he concentrates on odd things, like detail around a headlight to prove graphical incompetence. He doesn't see the big picture, therefore he doesn't see the game strengths. He's a graphic polygon-counter with no real vision of gameplay or environment.

But these are his main points , graphics and performance , not gameplay , he even states at the end that ARMA is a strong looking game , just not at the same level of other graphically advanced games.