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ARMA3 Coop Tactics - how to fight the AI

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Hi guys,

I have some questions regarding the AI and Coop. We moved the last days to ARMA3 on Squad level and it was nasty.

Our background: We play since years ARMA OA ACE/ACRE on a constant pretty good level (I thought at least :yay:). With ARMA3 we played mostly Altis Domination or the Resistance Modification the last days. Sometimes with ZeusAI, sometimes without it (because the Server tend to lag with Zeus AI).

Anyhow - right now I am bit puzzled how to fight the AI Infantery in Coop with my squad.

The AI is, even on lower settings (compared to ARMA2OA ACE) like a terminator. I mean not good, just more like artifical. For example: On one of our mission we set up 360° secure perimeter with 8 guys, we established also a overwatch position behind solid cover and sniper rifle and spotter. The AI Group, maybe 8 EIs, did a suprise move over the hill around 500 m distance, ran in our positions and just sniped us like tin soldiers - even through bushes and grass. The firefight was over in around 3 minutes, wie 6 dead and the rest totally supressed or wounded. That was like Delta vs. FSA Level. We didn't had a chance :cool:

I had also several ocassions, where the KI sniped me with iron sight in a 1vs1 fight. The problem, I was behind hardcover prone (house corner) while the KI killed me standing in the landscape without any cover - and hit me right between the eyes with around 200 meters.

My experience with the KI:

  • The performance of the AI is very inconsistant - sometimes just blind and stupid, sometimes like a superhuman. We had this issue with ARMA2 - I am suprised to see this again in ARMA3
  • What is new, the AI can see (and now shoot) through bushes, metal, some walls and wood with pin point acurracy. There is no point in hiding behind bushes or even wooden doors anymore - the KI knows where you are...EVEN if you change the position behind cover
  • Most of the time, the AI is concealed behind bushes/Grass/whatever - but will see you anyhow and kill you.
  • I have the feeling, there is no big difference right now, what kind of scope is attached to the weapon - the KI uses iron sights weapons like sniper weapons.
  • The AI is very fast very deadly, even with fast moving targets. 5-10 Secons are enough to kill, whatever you do. Running is better than hitting the deck right now - but it's not an good option either against the AI.
  • Supression doesn't work at all
  • The sound of the bullets. It's very difficult to hear, where the bullets are comming from. In ARMA the tracers are more helpfull to guesstimate the location of the AI than the sound - but most of the time I am dead without hearing even one bullet

My questions:

  • What kind of experience do you have in ARMA 3 with Coop this days (Squad level with Tactical Teamplay)? Specially compared to ARMA2 OA Ace - is it good, the same, is it worse?
  • What kind of AI settings do you use to come close to the ARMA2 AO ACE feeling?
  • Do you use any AI modification -which one is the best in your opinion?
  • Did you chanced your tactics playing against the ARMA3 AI compared to the ARMA2 AI?

Thanks in Advance!

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Howdy,

I’d like to start by saying that you are correct in declaring the Arma 3 AI as nearly superhuman. I’m not sure how much different they are from the Arma 2 AI but I can certainly tell you that they seem harder. Like you mentioned before, they seem to have been revamped in accuracy and tactics to some degree.

I don’t have much knowledge with the different AI mods for Arma 2 so I can’t help you there, and I don’t know the actual technical abilities of the AI. (How far they see, what they can see through, what their accuracy rate is...might search the forums...) but I can briefly outline what works for me…

I suppose I should start by trying to identify or consider the capabilities of the enemy AI. As we mentioned before, they seem almost superhuman. In my experience this is the most important thing to remember. Think of them as machines, they may not be very smart but they don’t get bored, tired, or scared either, and like machines they’re not hindered by the same things that we are. You’re pretty much spot on with the tactics you mentioned but I’m going to reiterate some important points.

1. Cover and Concealment - Concealment IS NOT cover! Cover can be concealment but concealment can NEVER be cover. With that in mind and knowing that the AI are machines, you shouldn’t expect them to see anything that won’t stop a bullet from hitting you. Basically it’s a good idea to think that grass, glass, bushes, wooden doors, thin sheet metal walls and anything else that won’t stop a bullet, doesn’t even exist. When you move from place to place, you SHOULD NOT be looking to try and stay hidden in the grass or behind bushes. You should only be concerned with moving from one object that will stop bullets to another object that will stop bullets. (Obviously though at far enough distances, moving in the grass and bushes will work because you’re out of the visual range and it’s a good idea to practice using bushes and grass to hide your movement from cover to cover.)

2.Breaking contact and the 5 second rule: As you said earlier 5-10 seconds is about all it takes to die. This is why I tell everyone I play with to start counting to 5 as soon as they start shooting from their position, especially in the prone! By the time you hit 6 you should be behind cover and looking for a different spot. Of course every situation is different and some situations will allow you to sit in one spot for a long time but when the enemy figures out where you are, it’s best to break contact and find a different spot. The longer you sit still the better his chances at hitting you get. Remember, he’s a machine, he’s not afraid to get shot and he has near laser like precision. It’s also important to know that by changing positions it might take longer to kill the enemy. It’s often hard to hit anything past 400m after sprinting to doge fire, add lag and your chances get even worse.

3.Movement and the visual range: - Like I said above, move from cover to cover and practice using the bushes and grass to hide movement but don’t count on it for anything when playing against AI because ONLY COVER COUNTS. Use the terrain as much as possible, don’t expose yourself if you don’t have to.(I.E. Skylining.)The more area you can see means the more places you can get shot from. If you can see them, it probably won’t take them long to see you too and when they do they might start shooting. Take a moment to look over the terrain on your map before you move.

4.Maneuvers: This goes back to breaking contact but on the enemy’s side. I have read numerous stories of people being flanked by the AI after thinking that they were routed and everything was all clear. Indeed I too have experienced such incidents while playing against the AI. Just because you see them tucking tail and running doesn’t mean they won’t be back. In fact I once had 3 AI that peeled away from their decimated squad only to show up 3km away. It could have been luck but it’s still something to watch out for.

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The AI doesn't know where you are, it estimates, just like people. If I see someone running behind a tin sheet fence, I am going to shoot at the fence. What is cover and what is concealment now heavily depends on the weapons the enemy carries: if they have a .50 cal, pretty much only reinforced concrete walls and armored vehicles provide cover, and every building turns in to mere concealment.

One thing that is absolutely necessary to win right now against AI with equal or superior numbers is to win the fight before they can spot you. Establish an ambush, and kill them before they can spot you. They are still too accurate when returning fire, so you don't want to have to deal with them replying in kind.

Another thing that's important is the 50% casualty rule. If you quickly inflict 50% casualties on AI, they will begin to flee on the average. Force them to move, when they move, they can't shoot.

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My only tip is, don't engage them in forests or anywhere with a lot of foliage if you can help it. They have a HUGE advantage in those situations because it barely, if at all, impedes their vision.

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and my tip is, until this is fixed, shift the precision to 0.3

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What is new, the AI can see (and now shoot) through bushes, metal, some walls and wood with pin point acurracy. There is no point in hiding behind bushes or even wooden doors anymore - the KI knows where you are...EVEN if you change the position behind cover

Most of the time, the AI is concealed behind bushes/Grass/whatever - but will see you anyhow and kill you.

I have the feeling, there is no big difference right now, what kind of scope is attached to the weapon - the KI uses iron sights weapons like sniper weapons.

Believing in fairy tales will get you killed. If you propagate them on the forums, then I say: Long live natural selection!

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Hi Squirrel,

thanks for your reply. Due to my broken english, i all the time mix concealment and cover up all the time. In our Squad we even just adapt the training for ARMA3. In ARMA3 our Squad will establish 3 classifications:

Concealment - no protection

  • Bushes
  • Grass
  • Fences
  • Wooden Doors (!)
  • "blind" Windows (!)
  • Corrugated Sheet Metal (!)
  • ....

Cover (acceptable protection against Rifle, Calliber 6.5, 5.6, etc.)

  • Walls
  • House Corners
  • Brick Walls
  • Cars (Engine)
  • Trees
  • ....

"Hard" Cover - no Sniper Rifle, no MG can penetrate, good protection against HE

  • Concrete Wall (my fav)
  • Tanks
  • Stones (most popular)
  • small hills
  • ....

I have several problems in ARMA:

Use of Concealment: I am very happy with the advanced penetrations system. For example, a Tank round can go through several buildings. But I am not so happy, how the AI uses concealment. I did several tests, and I come to the conclusion: IF the AI spot you - it will track and shoot you very accurate while you move under concealment. You can test for your self: Shoot close to the AI, run into a Shack with corrugated sheet metal, move inside the Shack to a different location - and the AI will shoot you through the metal with a scary accuracy. This behaviour does have big consequences for Squad level teamplay. Because concealment is not working how it should in real life. While the player have to break contact (he can't see the AI) the AI guestimates pretty good your position and kill you.

Use of "movement under fire" (LINK): The concept (for ex. 2 guys firing, while 2 guys find left or right cover for preparing a flanking maneuver) is based on using concealment/cover and supression. In RL you just throw more lead to your enemy than he throws to your side, while finding your self cover. If you supress him, he will stop shooting and duck behind cover. While he stopped shooting, you try to move into cover, while part of your squad will hold down the enemy. After that you break contact or start to flank. With the ARMA3 there is no supression effect (I didn't notice any). The AI right now will shoot till he is dead, lost a target or moves. Most of the time, the AI will just shoot, no matter how many rounds will zipp around. Combined with the pinpoint accuracy and the new penetration system you will have this weird High Noon effect. The only way to beat the AI is to kill faster - it's a duell, but has nothing to do with RL tactics.

It would be great to hear the experience of all the Squads and their sneaky tactics to adapt to the current AI.

For example, we start to use a LOT more indirect fire and drones. Staying behind hard cover, sending in some rounds from above is now the only way to secure the health of your squad mates. It's a bit boring for the rest of the squad, but you stay alive :yay:

---------- Post added at 08:36 ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 ----------

Maturin,

Believing in fairy tales will get you killed. If you propagate them on the forums, then I say: Long live natural selection!

first - would be nice you could be a bit more polite (even if it is not cool...sigh). I will up some tests on youtube. While the AI doesn't "see" (sorry for using the wrong description), it does a VERY good job on reacting on movement and guessing your position. The AI doesn't spray and pray like a human through bushes - it fires very accurate.

Edited by relain

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This is totally helpful too. (And if not, it's at least interesting.)

Edit: Also note how these real life examples reflect the AI: standing upright in enemy fire, firing from the hip, walking slowly. Edited by InstaGoat

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The AI doesn't know where you are, it estimates, just like people. If I see someone running behind a tin sheet fence, I am going to shoot at the fence. What is cover and what is concealment now heavily depends on the weapons the enemy carries: if they have a .50 cal, pretty much only reinforced concrete walls and armored vehicles provide cover, and every building turns in to mere concealment.

One thing that is absolutely necessary to win right now against AI with equal or superior numbers is to win the fight before they can spot you. Establish an ambush, and kill them before they can spot you. They are still too accurate when returning fire, so you don't want to have to deal with them replying in kind.

Another thing that's important is the 50% casualty rule. If you quickly inflict 50% casualties on AI, they will begin to flee on the average. Force them to move, when they move, they can't shoot.

Thanks Insta,

you did answer while I did answer to Squirrel - I agree with you, what you said. I am familliar with infantry tactics (RL exp.). It's just, that's my feeling, they don't apply in ARMA3 because the changes compared to ARMA OA (ACE).

I am a bit suprised the 50% rule still apply in ARMA3 right now - didn't experience any "fleeing" movement in ARMA3.

Also I didn't experienced any supression effect.

Will do some tests on both.

Did you guys changed your tactics in squad nights or you just play ARMA3 like in ARMA2 right now?

---------- Post added at 09:01 ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 ----------

Believing in fairy tales will get you killed. If you propagate them on the forums, then I say: Long live natural selection!

Hey Maturin,

I guess you know the video already (because you are reading the Dev AI thread) but anyhow: The video does demonstrate the issue withe use of concealment and the AI. I think it is very intersting for all Coop players.

It maybe a bug or a feature - I don't really mind.

My intention of this thread is just to collect the community experience with Coop in ARMA3 and maybe come up with some new tactics to adapt. :)

Edited by relain

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ANother problem is that the AI instantly share information on your position.

If one AI Squad member knows where you are, the rest will immediately know your precise position too and will shoot you through foliage.

Add to this that they are not affected by wounds and supression and you get superhuman AI.

But Please BIS don´t dumb the AI down!

Just fix those issues.

Let AI fall down and get up again when they are hit, that would be a good start.

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Thanks tonci for the input.

Another superhuman feature: According to my offline tests, the AI accuracy is not influenced by the optics attached to the rifle. Iron Sights or Scope - the same results on 400 m. Maybe someone could verify this?

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In OFP, AI could shoot you through bushes, trees, grass. That got fixed in a later patch. I can't believe we are back there. I watched that AI video. Pure cheating.

Concealment serves no purpose in this game. It might help approaching enemies but as soon as you shoot once, AI know where you are. Even with silencer on. Just seems to take a splitsecond longer.

I would expect the reaction to be "Someones shooting at us, all take cover and scan horizon". Instead I get "He's there, shoot him between the eyes".

I was under fire and decided to go into a house. I was carefully approaching the window, leaning to watch outside to see where enemy was. As soon as I looked outside, I got headshotted.

Infantry AI on the move = stupid. Run straight at me, jumping around carelessly like kindergarten kids.

Infantry AI stopped = worse than Terminator.

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If you don't use a suppression mod it is pointless trying to use RL tactics in Arma.

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I was under fire and decided to go into a house. I was carefully approaching the window, leaning to watch outside to see where enemy was. As soon as I looked outside, I got headshotted.

I can confirm that - but need more testing for verification, though.

---------- Post added at 11:47 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------

If you don't use a suppression mod it is pointless trying to use RL tactics in Arma.

Could you help me out and tell me, which AI mod you are referring to? I did some AI Mod tests, but I am not sure which one you mean. :)

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Yeah, I get what you mean. I suppose I should have made it a little bit clearer on what I was talking about. When I say “Think of the AI as machines†I mean that you can’t fight them the same way you would fight human players. Concealment doesn’t work, suppression doesn’t work, and thanks to their pinpoint accuracy, moving under fire is extremely risky. ( I’ll get back to that in a second.)

As to what Instagoat stated: The AI doesn’t automatically know where you are but, once you get within a certain distance and are spotted or start shooting, it’s basically like popping up on their radar and thanks to their machine like precision and situational awareness….It often feels like they might as well.

As far as overwhelming firepower go, I agree that is one of the key points to any firefight but you have to be careful when you are talking about operating in small teams of 2-6 men. It gets less and less likely that you will succeed with firepower alone, against AI that doesn’t mind bullets cracking all around them. Another danger with operating in small teams is picking or getting sucked into the wrong fight.

Now back to the explanation about running into that sheet metal shed… Again as Instagoat stated… If I saw you (the enemy) running into a shed, behind a fence, or any structure that I think I can shoot through….I’m going to shoot it! Area saturation (which is different from suppression) is a perfectly acceptable action when engaged in a firefight. As the saying goes, “When in doubt, empty your magazine.†This is where that part about being machines comes back into play. As you saw in the video, once you’re spotted, they pretty much know where you are no matter where you move inside the building and when they put that laser accuracy to work it feels like you get shot almost instantly because you basically do. That is why I say don’t look at anything except cover from whatever you’re fighting.

Finally, movement under accurate fire by AI when operating in small teams…. Recently a friend and I completed the Head Hunters mission on normal together with just the two of us and no AI teammates so I’ll try and go off that experience… Unless you have support or a large force, most of the conventional “Assault through the objective†tactics have to go out the window. When working in small teams you have to hit hard and move quickly. It’s all about situational awareness, advantageous positioning, and not being reluctant to give up ground. (E.G. Your excellent shooting position that becomes less and less excellent the longer you stay there.)

What we used for movement under fire was basically just a modified buddy system. Because suppression doesn’t work, we just tried to draw fire away from each other by shooting directly at the enemy AI shooting at whoever was pinned down. Basically if there is an enemy squad spread out on the hillside and we’re engaged, my buddy has been shooting for over 10 seconds and he’s pinned down. I will ignore everyone else and just take very well aimed shots at the 2 or 3 soldiers shooting at him. (Selective covering fire basically) You have to be careful though, going back to what I said about overexposure… If you get down behind a rock and you can see 4 enemies on the hill…You need to expect that all 4 of those enemies are going to be shooting at you at the same time. If possible, find cover where you can single out each enemy solider, only exposing yourself to one at a time.

Like I said, I know you already know this stuff, I just wanted to reiterate it because this is what has been working very well for me. In the end I think that playing against the AI is just going to have to be taken with a grain of salt for a while. The challenge is certainly fun though.

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I have was behind a wall with the ai 20m out and I could see it track me when I moved left and right. They are still able to track you for a bit when you get behind cover. How does it know that I did a change in direction for that short time? Maybe the ai hearing goes up very high for a short time?

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Finally, movement under accurate fire by AI when operating in small teams…. Recently a friend and I completed the Head Hunters mission on normal together with just the two of us and no AI teammates so I’ll try and go off that experience… Unless you have support or a large force, most of the conventional “Assault through the objective†tactics have to go out the window. When working in small teams you have to hit hard and move quickly. It’s all about situational awareness, advantageous positioning, and not being reluctant to give up ground. (E.G. Your excellent shooting position that becomes less and less excellent the longer you stay there.)

Yep,

that's exactly what we are testing right now. We split up the Squads (because overwhelming fire power for supression won't work with AI like in RL) and spread Buddy Teams around 50-100 meters. If one buddy team get contact, they will retreat as fast as possible while the other buddy teams look for hard cover. If the AI start to engage we start to fire from different locations and angles - it's like creating ad hoc MG Nests. Because the AI will just attack one group at the time (my experience), the other teams will try to "snipe" the AI from the flanks. It's not how it is meant to be played, but it works ok.

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Even with max skill their aim is not 100% but they sure do have great vision

On a seek and destroy waypoint. I took some shots so I could get the ai to move, then moved to another spot. I moved into a small shack in that yard after the video and it was able to track me down and kill me through the window. This is how I love the ai to act.

Ok so just did another test. I did a restart and did not fire this time. The ai starts out in the street near me with a wall between us. I moved away at the same time it moved away on its seek and destroy waypoint that 5 m away from it. I went into a house up stairs and went prone. I watched it for about 5 to 10 mins as it moved all around the city. It did not enter any house as it moved around going out to about 150m. It then worked its way back to my house and went inactive. I got up in a slow crouch walk and moved outside the room on the balcony. The ai was able to track me on just that sound... http://i40.tinypic.com/2u6js4o.jpg

Just found out doing more test that the ai can track you off sound for sure from 30m out. (if you slow or fast run)

Edited by R71

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In OFP, AI could shoot you through bushes, trees, grass. That got fixed in a later patch. I can't believe we are back there. I watched that AI video. Pure cheating.

I have various test setups using no AI mods which is the only way to get reproducible results. It is impossible to get accurate results unless you control all the variables in the testing. One test involves hiding behind a bush while an enemy crosses in front of me around 20-30 meters away. If I kneel behind a bush and don't fire he goes right past me. I can even follow him if I am careful. If I fire one or two shots at him but stay behind the bush he shoots in my direction a few times then continue on their way. If I am prone in the grass he goes right past me too. so, cover works for me unless I fire on him in which case i get hit, as expected. They spray the direction of fire just like I would.

I was under fire and decided to go into a house. I was carefully approaching the window, leaning to watch outside to see where enemy was. As soon as I looked outside, I got headshotted.

I have been doing this a LOT in the last few days testing one of my missions. I only get this i I have fired on them so they know where I am. Obviously if they think enemy are in a building they should be watching the windows.

So I guess I have different issues.

1. If I have am commanding a squad of AI and one of them shoots and an enemy I feel like I get targeted first most times if I am also visible to the enemy. EG: I am kneeling behing a bit of cover but a bit exposed. My AI shoots. Enemy AI see my AI and me, they seem to shoot me before the guys that was actually shooting at them. It seems that way, I haven't tried to verify it and it isn't a deal killer for me.

2. If I am in a position to headshot an enemy they go straight down. Most of the time thought it takes me two or three hits to drop one and it doesn't seem to affect their combat efficiency. I do wonder if the armour in RL is really that good. Ninety percent of the time I get head shot is because I camp or pop out of what a human would consider an obvious position. When under fire, peeking from behind cover more than once or twice. Taking cover in a building (an the enemy see me go in it) and being close to a window, especially if I am not standing a meter or two back from the window when looking out.

Attacking from different angles is rather crucial.

So. What I would like changed:

1. To be able to drop an enemy regularly with less than three shots. Maybe I just need to choose my weapon better?!

2. Ensure enemy AI are targeting their immediate threat. Not seemingly go for me then the guy doing the actual shooting.

3. Enemy able to reinforce each other. I normally use UPS so not so much an issue.

4. Suppression behaviour.

5. If an enemy gets hit but not fatally then do more than flinch and carry on. I like the fall down idea, if they are already prone then maybe a roll simulating trying to get out of the way of a second hit?

6. Prevent enemy from going prone on the first sound of gunfire when placed in buildings. I want them to shoot out the windows! Scripting forcing them to stay standing prevents kneeling or prone when CQB is in effect.

7. They don't usually enter a house that they know I am in.

Other than that I don't really have much problem with it.

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4. Suppression behaviour.

5. If an enemy gets hit but not fatally then do more than flinch and carry on. I like the fall down idea, if they are already prone then maybe a roll simulating trying to get out of the way of a second hit?

6. Prevent enemy from going prone on the first sound of gunfire when placed in buildings. I want them to shoot out the windows! Scripting forcing them to stay standing prevents kneeling or prone when CQB is in effect.

7. They don't usually enter a house that they know I am in.

5. Have you tried TPW fall mod? Personally I won't play without it but yes it would be nice to have more variety to hit responses in Vanilla. Still even the twitch is better than ARma 2 where they stood like stone statues with red puffs materializing around them while returning fire.

6. I've totally given up that BI will ever use windows doors or even an interior AI of anykind. You'll never see a Dev utter any of those phrases- sad...

7. It happens more often than not in A3 than it did in 2 -don't know why but it's unexpected surprise.

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I guess you know the video already (because you are reading the Dev AI thread) but anyhow: The video does demonstrate the issue withe use of concealment and the AI. I think it is very intersting for all Coop players.

It maybe a bug or a feature - I don't really mind.

New rule:

No one is allowed to post or even watch this video unless they read through the entire bugtracker thread.

I know you have good intentions, but you post the video with an inaccurate description of what is going on, more people in the thread get all worked up, and the bullshit machine of AI myths rolls on and on...

Which means people train themselves to always assume the AI is cheating and flood the bugtracker with absolutely worthless and whiny tickets that bury everything constructive.

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Just to follow up:

Yesterday I did extensive tests with the Dev Built. Around 3-4 hours of testing with different Setups, with different AI Skills, with different AI Infantery configurations.

Test purpose was:

Can the actual AI track your movement behind soft cover/concealment

We maybe all experienced something like - the AI spot you, you run into a metal shack or dive behind a bush and with astounding accuracy the AI will kill you anyhow - how is this possible? Does the AI see you trough concealment? Well, before I going to explain my test results we have to differ between concealment types. I did a classification yesterday:

Concealment - no protection

Bushes

Grass

Fences

Wooden Doors (!)

"blind" Windows (!)

Corrugated Sheet Metal (!)

....

The problem with concealment most of the time is: You can't be 100% sure if the AI still has a LOS on your avatar. You maybe think you are totally concealed behind a bush but you simply can't be sure. You maybe can't see trough the bush (because of several reasons) but the AI maybe can see you. So, to be sure - I choose one concealment the AI shouldn't, under any circumstances, see you: The Corrugated Sheet Metal, we have ingame - Shacks and Fences. The normal caliber (6.5) goes easily through it but will be deflected.

The test result was consistent: The AI, not a single time (with more than 40 test runs) did see me behind Sheet Metal Concealment. BUT: It can kill me while I take "cover" behind the concealment. How?

The reason is: If you, for example run from left to right while the AI fires at you. After you are behind the concealment the AI guesstimates (love that word, lol) your movement behind the concealment. It will spray a burst of bullets (4-8) from left to right with the same speed you moved before you dissapeared behind the concealment. And that's the crazy thing: If you move with the same speed behind the concealment from left to right - you will get hit several times through the Sheet Metal and die even. Because the calculation of the AI any your movement are equal. If you move into the concealment and you stop immediately - you can see 4-5 bullets zipping through the concealment from left to right without hitting you.

That's the reason why you have the feeling the AI can "see" you through concealment. Lesson learned: Stop immediately moving behind concealment (wich is against any instinct normally). I did the same tests behind bushes - the results are the same, the outcome is far more leathal. The Bushes, even the thick ones (the Bamboo or Reed) won't deflect enough for protection. So if you move at the same speed the AI guesstimates, you WILL be killed 7 of 10 times (my test result).

This maybe even explains the video I posted above.

One reason why the AI is better in distance than in Close Combat:

Another test result: One of the superhuman features of the AI is the fast reaction if you pop your head out of cover and kill you from 200 meters distance. I need some more testing but one thing, but one thing I can say: The AI does react faster and is more leathal between 100-300 meters than with lets say 25-80 meters. The reason: The AI has this akward turn rate for scanning the environment combined with a quite narrow Field of View (FOV). Because if you are, let's say, 200 meters away, the AI do see you immediately(!) if looking in your direction and will kill you in seconds with less than 11 bullets - the AI simply has a bigger FOV at 200 meters distance and do not have to turn to engage you. In Close Combat, with less than 100 meters the AI needs sometimes seconds to turn into the right direction and to "see" you, even when shots are fired and your position is obvious. This results in a unnatural behaviour - for a human player it is normally easier to spot and kill a enemy in close distance than an enemy 200 or 300 meters away. For the AI it is reverse. That's one reason (out of many) why the AI right now feels like a terminator (in distance) and smart like a lamppost in Close Combat.

Final thoughts:

Please share your AI tests here for Coop: We all need to learn how the AI reacts and works in the "wild". :)

Edited by relain

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Just to follow up:

Yesterday I did extensive tests with the Dev Built. Around 3-4 hours of testing with different Setups, with different AI Skills, with different AI Infantery configurations.

Test purpose was:

Can the actual AI track your movement behind soft cover/concealment

We maybe all experienced something like - the AI spot you, you run into a metal shack or dive behind a bush and with astounding accuracy the AI will kill you anyhow - how is this possible? Does the AI see you trough concealment? Well, before I going to explain my test results we have to differ between concealment types. I did a classification yesterday:

....

The problem with concealment most of the time is: You can't be 100% sure if the AI still has a LOS on your avatar. You maybe think you are totally concealed behind a bush but you simply can't be sure. You maybe can't see trough the bush (because of several reasons) but the AI maybe can see you. So, to be sure - I choose one concealment the AI shouldn't, under any circumstances, see you: The Corrugated Sheet Metal, we have ingame - Shacks and Fences. The normal caliber (6.5) goes easily through it but will be deflected.

The test result was consistent: The AI, not a single time (with more than 40 test runs) did see me behind Sheet Metal Concealment. BUT: It can kill me while I take "cover" behind the concealment. How?

The reason is: If you, for example run from left to right while the AI fires at you. After you are behind the concealment the AI guesstimates (love that word, lol) your movement behind the concealment. It will spray a burst of bullets (4-8) from left to right with the same speed you moved before you dissapeared behind the concealment. And that's the crazy thing: If you move with the same speed behind the concealment from left to right - you will get hit several times through the Sheet Metal and die even. Because the calculation of the AI any your movement are equal. If you move into the concealment and you stop immediately - you can see 4-5 bullets zipping through the concealment from left to right without hitting you.

That's the reason why you have the feeling the AI can "see" you through concealment. Lesson learned: Stop immediately moving behind concealment (wich is against any instinct normally). I did the same tests behind bushes - the results are the same, the outcome is far more leathal. The Bushes, even the thick ones (the Bamboo or Reed) won't deflect enough for protection. So if you move at the same speed the AI guesstimates, you WILL be killed 7 of 10 times (my test result).

This maybe even explains the video I posted above.

One reason why the AI is better in distance than in Close Combat:

Another test result: One of the superhuman features of the AI is the fast reaction if you pop your head out of cover and kill you from 200 meters distance. I need some more testing but one thing, but one thing I can say: The AI does react faster and is more leathal between 100-300 meters than with lets say 25-80 meters. The reason: The AI has this akward turn rate for scanning the environment combined with a quite narrow Field of View (FOV). Because if you are, let's say, 200 meters away, the AI do see you immediately(!) if looking in your direction and will kill you in seconds with less than 11 bullets - the AI simply has a bigger FOV at 200 meters distance and do not have to turn to engage you. In Close Combat, with less than 100 meters the AI needs sometimes seconds to turn into the right direction and to "see" you, even when shots are fired and your position is obvious. This results in a unnatural behaviour - for a human player it is normally easier to spot and kill a enemy in close distance than an enemy 200 or 300 meters away. For the AI it is reverse. That's one reason (out of many) why the AI right now feels like a terminator (in distance) and smart like a lamppost in Close Combat.

Final thoughts:

Please share your AI tests here for Coop: We all need to learn how the AI reacts and works in the "wild". :)

Interesting. Would love to read BIS statement about these findings.

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