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Had a nice comparision last night cus played 3 different CTI during 8 hours, Rubber-CTI (I guess without AI comm); OFPS, crCTIProman. Proman was the only one with AI comm+AISquadleader.

While the 1st two have the best GUIs for Inventory, Spawn etcpp, Proman beats all cus it is easy to compensate unbalanced join/quit over time.

Proman is a bit clunky when it comes to spawn selection and the gear shopping does not disclose important values important for selection decision for any item.

 

So the best would be any of the versions with a generic AI-comm module that can be turned off/on.

OFPS is basically BECTI, but further developed by Benny but AI comm crippled/cut out/deactivated by OFPS Team.

Benny told me that he still maintains the AI part (a while ago), even in the work for OFPS, but he was not aware about some bugs at the time I chatted with him so I do not know how mature the actual OFPS version (Bennys repository -> OFPS) is when it comes to AIcomm. Or if he is working at all for OFPS or if they do meanwhile all alone.

 

After all I still think Bennies core is still the best for CTI with tons of AI....but not A3 :-).

I will change that statement when BIS is replacing that bastard headless client for a real mature server SW able to scale masses of AI over lots of CPU cores and endless memory.

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I know the crCTIProman73. ----- but performance is very bad. Ai Commander does not come close to the Ultimate Warfare Rubber Edition. The AI Teamleader but already. No mobile respawn. AI Transporter is inefficient.


Ultimate Warfare Rubber Edition - is the base of the ARMA 2 Benny Warfare v2_073 / Warfarev2_071.
-Commander independently builds factories.
-Commander builds defensive positions.
-Commander independently moves MHQ to new position / default if money is there, every 60min.
-Commander Responds to Airborne Threats - More Air Defense Allocation to AI Teamleader.
-Commander building out. (upgrade)

 

The performance is good - is just CTI with AI.
No other CTI has managed this until today.

Missing only the AI team leader, the unfortunately freeze usually fast.


But :

Vadimir  [Autor] 4. Jan. um 13:22 Uhr  
 
@Chan, @arma3swiss, @MysticDaedra, @dvd.brewster, thanks for your feedback. I plan to start working on fixing the AI after adding all the maps and updating the gear menu and pylons dynamic loadout menu. The gear menu update is almost ready :) 

 

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crCTI (Proman) is a little different from the other CTI. this was since OFP times. the crCTI Proman is keeping the original rules. so not having fast travel or mobile spawn is not negative, in my opinion is a nogo for CTI.

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Thanks to parameters, everything can be adjusted in Ultimate Warfare Rubber Edition. With or without almost travel or mobile spawn.
Even with or without: ACE3, Community Upgrade Project (CUP), Red Hammer Studios (RHS), Iron Front ArmA3 (Lite) and The Unsung: Vietnam War Mod.
Just to the taste of the player - the server operator.


In addition, Ultimate Warfare Rubber Edition with double AI units runs significantly more FPS than crCTIProman.
Find crCTIProman not bad, do not misunderstand. But as long as the AI drives as it drives, the weekend is over before coming to the front with a tank. Perhaps after hours of driving, then destroyed shortly before the finish of a NLAW or Heli ....
In addition, the AI transport is not so mature. Ai Commander does not know where the front is. Send the trucks somewhere, transport helicopters are shot down quickly and you end up back in the base, instead of at the front, great.
The AI team leader unfortunately freeze with crCTIProman over time.
I'm not a WOW gamer

 

Actually crCTI Proman, but potential. Only something would have to be extended - parameters and especially in the performance. Ok, gun shop also, we could not get any smaller ...

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19 hours ago, SF_andy said:

I know the crCTIProman73. ----- but performance is very bad. Ai Commander does not come close to the Ultimate Warfare Rubber Edition. The AI Teamleader but already. No mobile respawn. AI Transporter is inefficient.


Ultimate Warfare Rubber Edition - is the base of the ARMA 2 Benny Warfare v2_073 / Warfarev2_071.
-Commander independently builds factories.
-Commander builds defensive positions.
-Commander independently moves MHQ to new position / default if money is there, every 60min.
-Commander Responds to Airborne Threats - More Air Defense Allocation to AI Teamleader.
-Commander building out. (upgrade)

 

 

So it is BECTI-RE but based on A2 code base?

Basically independent A2-A3 port cus as I understood Benny he wrote the basic game logic more or less from scratch for A3.

 

The GUIs referenced at https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1510350822 looking exactly like those I seen when playing last weekend, maybe AI functions were deactivated in server/game setup.

 

19 hours ago, SF_andy said:

The performance is good - is just CTI with AI.
No other CTI has managed this until today.

 

Well...best is to have online stats that displays and records

 

- amount of groups + units per group /per side / per time unit /location of group

- server fps / per time unit

 

Then you would be able to compare the performance. crCTI has indeed problems if lots of full squads wandering across (lets say 2 sides times 16 squads times 12 units = 32 groups, 384 units) + base defense patrols (lets say 2 sides times 1 group times 12 units = 2 groups, 24 units) and many towns are triggered and hence defense triggered (lets say 10 towns x 4 groups x 5 units each = 40 groups, 200 units), but I assume BECTI would have performance problems too once server + HCs must deal with so many unity and groups.

In classic "PvP"-CTI at least the 32 groups, 384 units of acting factions are not loading the server assuming that so many player clients are connected.

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, CAWA Gaming said:

crCTI (Proman) is a little different from the other CTI. this was since OFP times. the crCTI Proman is keeping the original rules. so not having fast travel or mobile spawn is not negative, in my opinion is a nogo for CTI.

 

Indeed, crCTI is more about extended AI commander/Squad leader compared to BECTI.

 

Main differences in generic game design I remember:

 

- crCTI features scripts under "transport duty" where units waiting in a certain area would be transported by unity of that group being in transport duty. Excellent to get massive troops into a certain area. Even air transport was working quite ok during those times in OFP when copter were able to land instead of crashing

 

- crCTI - repair/rearm/refuel, scripts gathered all available assets like medic,ambu vehicles, medic tent, gas station, ammo boxes, mobile refuel/rearm....support of any kind. At squad leader level, the conditions of the units and send individual units to the next useful support asset if conditions are below certain threshold. Damaged unit went for heal/repair and returned to squad location after successful heal/repair...all that in AI only environment - nice to just watch

 

 

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27 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

Well...best is to have online stats that displays and records

 

- amount of groups + units per group /per side / per time unit /location of group

- server fps / per time unit

 

We are using a Discord bot to keep track of the mission performance. You can check it out here: https://github.com/Yoshi-E/jmwBOT Im still reworking the code a little, so its not 100% the best atm.

Should directly work with any BECTI based missions, and with some slight changes can work with any mission.
2018-12-27_22-54-42143-CUR-ADV.png

The data is saved, both as an graph/image and a json format, for later use.

Bot is used on https://discordapp.com/invite/YhBUUSr

My discord: Yoshi_E#0405

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@SF_andy

It makes no sense to compare two diffrent missions. Also this thread is BECTI and not whats the better mission.

But as there is mentioned crCTI here I would throw my 2 cents in the room. Cause I found some of the statements hardly wrong and not true. Kind of guessing the taste of a food which never been eaten.

Quote

I know the crCTIProman73.

There does not exist a mission called this afaik.

Quote

Ai Commander does not come close to the Ultimate Warfare Rubber Edition.

Can you please explain this ? What does the AI commander do to be so far away from the crCTI one ?

Quote

In addition, Ultimate Warfare Rubber Edition with double AI units runs significantly more FPS than crCTIProman.

Can you say a number of AI running in UWRE? Or better can you say a number of AI running in crCTI Proman ?

Quote

But as long as the AI drives as it drives, the weekend is over before coming to the front with a tank. Perhaps after hours of driving, then destroyed shortly before the finish of a NLAW or Heli ....

This is complety phantasy. Do you realy think the AI drives hours to get to a town ?

Quote

In addition, the AI transport is not so mature. Ai Commander does not know where the front is. Send the trucks somewhere, transport helicopters are shot down quickly and you end up back in the base, instead of at the front, great.

Half true. The AI commander sends Trucks/Helo´s to captured towns something like 1.5km away from it. Many get killed or shot down yes. Thats because Resistance is fighting back as good as they can. But this loss is only for Infantry. There are Squads with vehicles which move to the front by them self. So how does the transport of units work in UWRE? Do they spawn on parachutes above sectors ?

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The AI team leader unfortunately freeze with crCTIProman over time. I'm not a WOW gamer

This happens from time to time but happend to me maybe once in the whole last year. Just happens if you #restart or do #reassign often. Sever issue...only WOW gamer dont know that ;)

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Actually crCTI Proman, but potential. Only something would have to be extended - parameters and especially in the performance. Ok, gun shop also, we could not get any smaller

See thats taste. I dont like to much parameters. I think 60% are not necessary at all and just brakes the start. I like the gear menu in BECTI its nicely done and looks much better than in crCTI but to me its more important how fast i can rearm and how much I got sucked out of the situation iam in atm. Also to say crCTI has potential is kind of escapist. I play crCTI 16+years now, and not only I do. It has payed back his potential a billion times since then.

 

Saying a mission is not bad but then subribing it as crap is not the gentlemen way buddy. Especially when its not true!

This tells me that you and others who maybe start playing CTI in ArmA2 dont know much about it.

I never said BECTI or Warfare or even Warlords are bad. They are diffrent missions for diffrent taste or variety.

What do you think Benny played before he made BECTI ? And who do you think was playing with him for many years ?

 

Anyway I wish you Guys good luck with Ultimate Warfare Rubber Edition to make it work perfect and have many ppl joining your servers.

Quote

-Commander independently moves MHQ to new position / default if money is there, every 60min.

I would like to see this. How does the MHQ being moved ?

 

_Muecke

 

 

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Question: Who knows ARMA 2 and who played Benny Warfare?

Apparently less than I thought - Muecke, you disappoint me. Do not you really know the Benny Warfare?


The MHQ has already been relocated in ARMA 2 by AI Commander. Ai-Commander Undeployed HQ to MHQ vehicle, drive new location and deploy MHQ to HQ building. He also builds again factories and defensive positions.
Thus, one is not always sure where the MHQ is located and enlightenment has more meaning.


AI team leader with air transport, buy transport heli and soldiers in the base. Everyone climbs in and at ARMA 2 they climb 400m-600m before the finish, parachute or heli landed shortly.


One thing is certain, not all bug's come from CTI missions. Driving the tank and partly just standing in front of rocks is not a CTI bug, but an ARMA 3 bug.
Or the tank sneaks around and drives to the left right.

By the way, even with warlords, the Ai often freezes after 1-2h!


- I never said that Proman is bad, on the contrary it has potential. In return for the OFPS team, who had started with empty servers and no AI, hopelessly attempting with a suspended mission. Is yours, as well as Ruben available for everyone and not provided with monster big own Mod's and with AI's - so very well!


But you have also admitted that the performance for the crCTI Proman mission takes its toll - so it's not really that good.
What I have read in the comments at Promen, are some who would like to have a mobile respawen vehicle. Would be a breeze for you, with an additional parameter to integrate - on or off.
When it comes to CTI, I have been fully involved since ARMA 1 and at ARMA 2 I started to expand and adapt it myself. But only for [SF] Intern.
So also know the Proman of ARMA2. (was that also done by you?)

 

Ok, my advantage is, of course, that I have a stand-alone Det.-Server for ARMA2 and 3, because I can of course much more control, compare and make parameter settings.

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Sorry Muecke.


Today have the crCTI Proman: crCTI_24_ @ Proman_2035_v1_11_Altis
Again under the magnifying glass. Have my Det. Server hosted with 2 H C client. 10vs10 with 6Ai units each. 45 8 towns, no civilians, no traffic and test max. Money.
My server was always between (mission display33 and 40 FPS) with display: #monitor 30 = 12-20 FPS
So delete my statement, poor performance.

Did you still do something, was previously unplayable. Cool.


Ai units have not turned out big yet. After 2h 2 Ai team leader. But a bug was quickly noticed. If Ai units buy aviators, they simply crash.
What I also noticed, one has in between small jerk, even if server 40FPS and client has 60 FPS. Was earlier in older versions but much worse.

Ok, what I forgot to mention, of course, is that to date in ARMA 3 the crCTI Proman, by far still has the most reliable AI team leader.
All the more missing is that the Ai Commander could shift the HQ independently.
Ok, with Mob respwan is a matter of opinion, but how about a transport heli that a player could call to place him in a location chosen by the player?
I had such a script of xxx called myHeli. Had this time in the Arma2 Warfare planted and worked great. Thus, it would not necessarily need a mobile respwan. Think for you would be a rewriting of this script for ARMA 3 hardly a big deal.

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yeah you can manage this in the parameters but mostly CTI servers have Fast travel on an ppl are using it. for crcti players is fasttravel a nogo.

 

if you can find some time you are welcome connect every Saturday 1900 on Armanexus server. the server is stronk and the crcti runs good.

 

under the week we arrange per discord or steam group chat. 

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9 hours ago, CAWA Gaming said:

 for crcti players is fasttravel a nogo.

 

 

 

 

well, for serious gaming nerds fasttravel is a no - no; but respawn at all maybe too :-)

 

I do not like Fast Travel (especially group fast travel where even all units including vehicles go with the player) because it makes real life tactics expendable.

I found it interesting to give higher death penalties for players and team kills, even supply points are removed (was it Rubber or OFPS CTI?)

But the accessability of town camps and mible spawns are also a kind of fast travel, even I used suicide to spawn closer to the next theater of interest.

This habbit is prevented by Respawn timer + death penalty that really hurts (no gear, no cash, when spawning, time penalty before you can trigger respawn) (I guess it was in OFPS-BECTI). I still could prevent time penalty by using hand granade for suicide, but I caused supply loss for the entire team which expressed the unhappiness about it.

 

So there are ways to unite easy access to fun (means being after virtual death quickly back to the front line) as well as serious gaming.

In the end my evergreen statement: open all possibilities in game design and let the server admin decide if he is setting up a serious game (no spawn, no fast travel) or a run&gun (spawn everywhere, even into other units, FastTravel on). Then, eveyone will be able to find "his" server.

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20 hours ago, Yoshi_E said:

 

 

We are using a Discord bot to keep track of the mission performance. You can check it out here: https://github.com/Yoshi-E/jmwBOT Im still reworking the code a little, so its not 100% the best atm.

Should directly work with any BECTI based missions, and with some slight changes can work with any mission.
 

The data is saved, both as an graph/image and a json format, for later use.

Bot is used on https://discordapp.com/invite/YhBUUSr

My discord: Yoshi_E#0405

 

Yepp, you have exactly what I meant, and with your tools you have also the ability to show server FPS + total playable units + total objects within the same graph where you see the coincidence.

 

Your server needs more cores and more HCs .....or a better A3 server SW :-)

 

PS: Are you able to count the amount of groups in addition to units? Some scripts steering at group level instead of unit level, hence those data would be interesting

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15 hours ago, SF_andy said:

Sorry Muecke.


Today have the crCTI Proman: crCTI_24_ @ Proman_2035_v1_11_Altis
Again under the magnifying glass. Have my Det. Server hosted with2 H C client. 10vs10 with 6 Ai units each. 45 towns, no civilians, no traffic and test max. Money.
My server was always between 33 and 40 FPS.
So delete my statement, poor performance.

Did you still do something, was previously unplayable. Cool.


Ai units have not turned out big yet. After 2h 2 Ai team leader. But a bug was quickly noticed. If Ai units buy aviators, they simply crash.
What I also noticed, one has in between small jerk, even if server 40FPS and client has 60 FPS. Was earlier in older versions but much worse.

Ok, what I forgot to mention, of course, is that to date in ARMA 3 the crCTI Proman, by far still has the most reliable AI team leader.
All the more missing is that the Ai Commander could shift the HQ independently.
Ok, with Mob respwan is a matter of opinion, but how about a transport heli that a player could call to place him in a location chosen by the player?
I had such a script of xxx called myHeli. Had this time in the Arma2 Warfare planted and worked great. Thus, it would not necessarily need a mobile respwan. Think for you would be a rewriting of this script for ARMA 3 hardly a big deal.

Now this sounds by far more mature than your posts before. Apology accepted. ;)

By 10vs10 you mean 20 human player or every slot with AI ? Because mission will write errors if you disable slots in the lobby, must be 12vs12 always.

I did not much about performance, most work was done by Kastenbier and BI for better performance. Iam not a scripter just a player. :D

Like CAWA said it depends mostly to the parameters or what terrain you play. For example the new chernarus summer has bigger frame impact than altis.

 

I understand what you mean, you want to be fast back to the front. Long trips are hard and some ppl wont afford playtime for that. There is no problem to let an AI pilot take you where ever you want.

Other thing in Proman is Unitswitch: you spawn into one of your squadmember with your actual gear but he will die and you will pay his deathpenalty ( call it soultravel maybe :) ).

Means if you have a groupsize of 6 you can respawn 5 times somewhere out of bases. We never play with this parameter enabled but its possible for those who need something like this.

And its less cheating in my eyes cause you had a unit already there where you want to go so not much magic happend here.

Quote

All the more missing is that the Ai Commander could shift the HQ independently.

Yes, that one is needed!

Quote

If Ai units buy aviators, they simply crash.

Yes, this happens sometimes and needs an overhaul.

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Ok, I have 10 vs. 10 Ai units, not player- So, 19 Ai units at the starting slot and one player. But it worked well, despite the 4 disabled slots.


- You can see it this way, soldiers were already in the Vietnam War, transported by helicopter quickly into the field. Even vehicles were brought there with helicopters from A to B. Well, if such a transport option were more than ok - because it's realistic.

Of course, it could be expanded to allow team leaders to request artillery or air support, perhaps even supplies. Everything would still be realistic.
But how often, is more likely the question. Price another, hardly believe that a team leader paid for his equipment or support, ha ha ha.
Where the internal support module, only works reasonably in multiplayer, so a script would be needed. If you want, can you send me the script: "myHeli", which I planted in Warfare at ARMA 2? Although you think that you do not need this quite specific, with your scripting skills, you wrote a new one faster than rewrite it.

 

Since I've served in the army and the heavy tank - Leopard A2, I know or can I say in good conscience, the ARMA 3 tanks or better said AI drivers are very bad - well, shit is rather true. With shifts of the tanks, one does not drive at walking pace, there we are between officially 60 Km / h on the way, unofficially rather 80Km / h, our record was already 110Km / h, do not say further ... Would you trust a 50 ton thing, never.
In combat missions - positional change, speed is the key. It says, depending on the terrain, with 60 km / h and with an acceleration that even a standard PW (for example VW Golf) can not keep up. Clearly in extreme terrain, it is not possible, the crew would not survive it well.

What I want to say and probably no CTI problem, in ARMA 2 tanks are not good, but in ARMA 3 even worse. Everyone knows, Ai driver drive there. He drives left once right and barely comes to speed, stops in front of a stone and does not find the reverse ...
In addition, the WBG thermal imaging device of vehicles, especially tanks, in the ARMA series is pathetic. I've never blinded my own gun barrel, lol.

 

Back to the topic: Would be great if you can create the shift with HQ. Ok, with the flyers too, if I see how much money the AI throws out of the window you could almost feel sorry for her.

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I have two questions:

 

1. Is there some way to save your progress while hosting the mission on a dedicated server? I don't care if it's BECTI, CRCTI or UWRE, as long as I don't have to start from the beginning when I have to shut down the server. I like big scale misions, but in no way I can conquer whole Altis or whatever map in the few hours of free time I have each day. So saving progress is essential to me. I know that some missions like Liberation or Dissension offer at least some sort of persistence.

 

2. What do you think would be the best distribution of CPU power to run one of the above missions? I do have two rigs available, each one with an I7 6 Core / 12 Threads CPU and 16GB of RAM. So I probably could run several instances / headless clients at once to maximize the available computing power. How many Cores or Threads should I allocate to each client? What is your experience with this?

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Unfortunately, I made a mistake - test for the crCTI Proman. :don9:


First of all, I did not have 45Towns, but were just 8 laps.
With more active Towns, FPS is down.
The other somewhat embarrassing mistake, I have relied on the server FPS ad, from the mission. But that's not true, has some bug.
So all servers can use this command to display the servers FPS: #monitor 30   (Only as admin)
Unfortunately I wrote 33 - 40 FPS, but real are just 14-20 FPS. (All the more surprising that hardly all AI has failed)

 

It is also interesting that the HC client from my point of view hardly bring anything, whether none or 4, have found no higher FPS.
The mission supposedly hates the non-original map, because on Altis the FPS are much higher than on Cherno.

 

Who has experience with crCTI Proman host, with det.servers.
How can you play with AI and many tows, with high FPS?

 

- Det.Server: Win 10 64bit / AMD FX (tm) -8150 8Core 4.5GHz clocked with water cooling / SSD HD / DDR3 32GB
                                                (Is without HC client - 40-50% busy with 2 Hc-Clients 70-80%)

 

- For other HC clients: Win 8.1 64bit / AMD FX (tm) -8150 8Core 3.8GHz / SSD HD / DDR3 32GB

- Internet: Fiber 1G up / 1G down.

 

Should be enough, for ARMA 2 + 3 BennyWarfare, it was very good enough. :don14:

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23 hours ago, SF_andy said:

The other somewhat embarrassing mistake, I have relied on the server FPS ad, from the mission. But that's not true, has some bug.
So all servers can use this command to display the servers FPS: #monitor 30   (Only as admin)

 

Actually, thats the number that tells you the most. It's a 5 minute FPS average over the server and all headcless clients.

If you just use #monitor it's showing the server FPS only, and this won't magically go up to 50fps by adding more HCs.

 

The Server still bears most of the load. It still runs all important scripts and some part of the AI and -- as i understand it -- has to coordinate everything anyway. Stuff like that never scales linear.

 

If you connect some HCs, most of the AI get transferred to them after a while (not instantly!), not by a fixed fraction but by what you might call a 'weight'.

Its 1 part for the server, and 3 for every connected HC, so for 2 HCs for example, you'll get a 1:3:3 distribution of AIs (+/-), so in that case 1/7 of the AI still run on the server.

If 4 HCs are connected, 1:3:3:3:3, uhm, ... whats that, 1/13? You get the picture.

Groups that is! Not single units.

All in all, you should get more responsive / better driving AI if you're using HCs.

 

If you enable your .rpt on the HCs, you should see a periodic unexplained message, just some numbers, like: "30 200 50 15" or something.

Thats the local FPS, the amount of units local to that HC, the amount of vehicles local to that HC and the amount of groups local to that HC.

 

So, maybe check that as well. Shouldn't be that low.

 

On 1/19/2019 at 12:22 PM, SF_andy said:

Unfortunately I wrote 33 - 40 FPS, but real are just 14-20 FPS. (All the more surprising that hardly all AI has failed)

 

Was that with or without HCs? If you have no HCs running, the displayed average FPS should be in the range (not exactly) of the #monitor value.

The more HCs you add, it should go up and display the the average FPS over all HCs and the server.

 

And what do you mean by "hardly all AI has failed"?

 

On 1/19/2019 at 12:22 PM, SF_andy said:

The mission supposedly hates the non-original map, because on Altis the FPS are much higher than on Cherno.

 

It shouldn't matter *what* map you play, except something is triggering a shitload of .rpt output if you have it enabled.

More important is the actual distribution of towns and how "dense" they are.

Altis in that regard is less densely populated than Chernarus.

 

Also, the towns won't affect your FPS until they're actually active and spawning AIs, which happens when something of relevance gets into a certain radius.

If nothing's there, they despawn the AI. If you completely wipeout the resistance in a town, they get deactivated permanently, unless you're having towngroups / civilians still running around, which also only spawn if some "eneny" is near.

 

On 1/19/2019 at 12:22 PM, SF_andy said:

How can you play with AI and many tows, with high FPS?

 

Just like you do. Just don't only look at the #monitor value. Check if it really sucks and is unplayable.

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12 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

The mission must be written to utilize HCs...and even then it is hard to move units from server to HC without issues. Sometimes AI wbome inactive after moved to HC.

 

Question about that: You're using a dedicated server? Are you running with the "whole" content (steamappid 107410) or the dedicated server only thingy? (steamappid 233780)?

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