Scope glare, yes or no?

[Cathrynn 10]

For anyone that does not believe that you can get sun glare/reflections while looking down an ACOG type scope I found this mild example - http://ubuntuone.com/4FxqV7iczrsyhdsv53AUHs

[Tonci87 163]

For anyone that does not believe that you can get sun glare/reflections while looking down an ACOG type scope I found this mild example - http://ubuntuone.com/4FxqV7iczrsyhdsv53AUHs

That sir, is the reflection of the red light on his camera. FPDR

[Cathrynn 10]

That sir, is the reflection of the red light on his camera. FPDR

It makes no difference whether its a light from the persons camera or not, it shows quite clearly that any light source hitting the rear lens at the correct angle will reflect and disrupt the scope picture.

[Deadfast 43]

It makes no difference whether its a light from the persons camera or not, it shows quite clearly that any light source hitting the rear lens at the correct angle will reflect and disrupt the scope picture.

You're not going to get many light sources if your head is in the way.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

It makes no difference whether its a light from the persons camera or not, it shows quite clearly that any light source hitting the rear lens at the correct angle will reflect and disrupt the scope picture.

That light source is right where your eye should be. Of course there's going to be glare if there's a bright light where your eye is. Hell, the black plastic surrounding the lens will have glare in that case.

Honestly, I think this goes further to proving everyone else's point. Even with direct light shining inches away from the lens, there's still so little glare that it nearly doesn't effect the picture at all. In fact, so little glare that the black matte plastic shows more glare than the glass lens.

[Cathrynn 10]

This vid says it all from about 6:32 onwards -

The vid looks like it was filmed indoors but even so you can clearly see a light source reflecting off of the rear lens, disrupting part of the sight picture, but if the sun had been shinning over the guys shoulder at the correct angle the disruption would have been much worse.

[gatordev 214]

This vid says it all from about 6:32 onwards -

The vid looks like it was filmed indoors but even so you can clearly see a light source reflecting off of the rear lens, disrupting part of the sight picture, but if the sun had been shinning over the guys shoulder at the correct angle the disruption would have been much worse.

Ugh. I can't resist anymore... If you're using YT videos using a camera to back up your point, you're not making your case well. If you actually put your head into the optic on a real gun, all of that goes away unless it's an INCREDIBLY oblique angle that the sun/light source is coming in. And even then, the eye-relief on the ACOGs are pretty short, so it's going to be tough to let light in. I have NEVER had this issue with my TA01NSN that I have. On the objective? Sure, but not on the ocular lens.

[Cathrynn 10]

Ugh. I can't resist anymore... If you're using YT videos using a camera to back up your point, you're not making your case well. If you actually put your head into the optic on a real gun, all of that goes away unless it's an INCREDIBLY oblique angle that the sun/light source is coming in. And even then, the eye-relief on the ACOGs are pretty short, so it's going to be tough to let light in. I have NEVER had this issue with my TA01NSN that I have. On the objective? Sure, but not on the ocular lens.

When all is said and done '3D' scope glare is simulated in the game for a reason, the devs didn't just include it because they thought it would look pretty. As I said before I'm not saying that sun glare is a common thing with the ACOG and just because someone hasn't experienced it before does not mean that it can't happen under the right sort of conditions. But the hole point of this thread is to find out what people think about scope glare in game, do they think it should be removed completely? Or should it be left in but with the shadow issues fixed? Or maybe something else?

[-Coulum- 35]

I don't think it was purposely simulated though. I think it just happened to happen that way because of the lighting engine and teeh way the defined the surface of ths scope. And if it were simulated it would have to take into account that the shooters head is actually behind the scope. Right now the player never actually positions his head behind the scope, the camera view merely moves which is why there is why no shadow is cast and the unrealistic amount off scope glare. I actually prefer TMR scope mod to the "3d". Gives a much closer representation of what looking down an acog looks like especially in terms of brightness and clarity. 3d scopes are gimmicky imo.

[Longjocks 0]

I actually prefer TMR scope mod to the "3d".

TMR was already good, but adding the change in the scope was a very pleasant update and a step in the right direction. I'm now happy to use the scope again. The original iteration implemented by BIS wasn't much cop, but it was at least good and simple to use. When the change was made to the '3D' scope the only positive was in way of aesthetics - but some of which is the basis of this thread and is actually a negative.

[-Coulum- 35]

TMR was already good, but adding the change in the scope was a very pleasant update and a step in the right direction. I'm now happy to use the scope again. The original iteration implemented by BIS wasn't much cop, but it was at least good and simple to use. When the change was made to the '3D' scope the only positive was in way of aesthetics - but some of which is the basis of this thread and is actually a negative.

Yes indeed. I downloaded TMR just for the scopes. Not that I don't like what it has but I am trying to extend the vanilla experience as long as possible. TMR's scopes may not be pretty or have the cool factor but they are much more realitic to use. I actually find the 3d scopes an immersion breaker because it looks like I am just looking through a plastic lense with zero magnification.

All TMR scopes needs is proper simulation of the effects of eye misalignment (ie scope shadows) especially during recoil, recovery from recoil and sudden twitch movements.

[timmo1982 10]

I would suggest it's this:

I don't think it was purposely simulated though. I think it just happened to happen that way because of the lighting engine and the way the defined the surface of the scope.

As opposed to this:

When all is said and done '3D' scope glare is simulated in the game for a reason, the devs didn't just include it because they thought it would look pretty.

It's simply a function of using a 'glass' material (i.e. high spectral value + an environment map....similar to the perspex on the little bird) which shines brightly at certain angles and overlays an approximation of a reflection. The scope glass doesn't have any idea it's a scope, let alone have 'knowledge' of what's around it such as a head (i.e. the environment map isn't a true reflection- reflections are computationally VERY demanding).

[antoineflemming 14]

When all is said and done '3D' scope glare is simulated in the game for a reason, the devs didn't just include it because they thought it would look pretty. As I said before I'm not saying that sun glare is a common thing with the ACOG and just because someone hasn't experienced it before does not mean that it can't happen under the right sort of conditions. But the hole point of this thread is to find out what people think about scope glare in game, do they think it should be removed completely? Or should it be left in but with the shadow issues fixed? Or maybe something else?

Just because the devs included it does not make it realistic. Arma does not define reality. Just because something appears in Arma does not mean it's realistic. Reality should define Arma, not the other way around. The devs added 3d scopes because people suggested it. That's why. People wanted parallax sights, Arma 3 finally delivered, because people wanted it. The point is to find out about scope glare. You found your answer. Significantly reduce it. And reduce the shadow that's seen through the scope as well. Should appear that dark when looking through it (talking about the 3d scopes.)

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

As I said before I'm not saying that sun glare is a common thing with the ACOG and just because someone hasn't experienced it before does not mean that it can't happen under the right sort of conditions.

It's not just someone. Every single person in this thread with real world experience with modern RCOs has told you the same thing. Real RCOs don't work like that. BIS did in-fact just include it because it looks pretty. Without a doubt, 3D scopes in their current implementation are less realistic in every single way compared to the traditional 2D scopes.

And pretty much everyone but you has agreed; scope glare on the ocular lens has to go.

[scrim 1]

You're not going to get many light sources if your head is in the way.

I resent that good sir. I'm from Chernobyl, and after enough exposure to sunlight, my head shines like a light bulb.

Why's this thread not locked yet?

[Cathrynn 10]

I know from real life experience that it's possible, under the right sort of conditions, to get glare and bad reflections from the rear lens of a rifle scope, hence my scepticism. I also know I said in the OP that I hope BI never changes the way the sun glares off of the RCO but what I was really trying to say was that they shouldn't just get rid of the effect just because it's not working properly at the moment.

Yes, there are obviously a number of issues that need to be addressed in regards to how reflections and glare appear on the rear lens but what I'd like to see would be for the lighting effects to be much more subtle and reduced, maybe only happening around the edges of the lens with the conditions of when those effects can happen tightened up considerably; taking into account the fact that the persons head has a much bigger part to play in all of this. Of course, there's also the argument that the game is simulating a future conflict and so has eliminated glare and bad reflections entirely from a technical point of view, but to be honest though, I think removing the lighting effects completely would not be a good thing in the long run.

[dmarkwick 261]

I have to say that I've never, ever, seen a glare from a scope rear lens. Ever. The only time I could imagine it happening is if the sun is situated exactly, within a couple of degrees, over my right shoulder shining onto the lens between my head and the lens shield. Even then I doubt I would actually see a glare, and certainly not one that would affect my major sight.

As such, IMO it should just go for that particular glass object.

[Deadfast 43]

I know from real life experience that it's possible, under the right sort of conditions, to get glare and bad reflections from the rear lens of a rifle scope, hence my scepticism.

And therein lies the problem. Right now the conditions are right 50% of the time.

[maffa 29]

so lets say it's far more probable to get lens flare at night or indoor because of low artificial lights than by day because of the sun

[Minoza 11]

I would suggest it's this:

As opposed to this:

It's simply a function of using a 'glass' material (i.e. high spectral value + an environment map....similar to the perspex on the little bird) which shines brightly at certain angles and overlays an approximation of a reflection. The scope glass doesn't have any idea it's a scope, let alone have 'knowledge' of what's around it such as a head (i.e. the environment map isn't a true reflection- reflections are computationally VERY demanding).

Actually one of the marketed lighting features for Arma 3 was light being visible in specular reflection. Meaning you can toss a chemlight and you will see it in specular, in this case it has nothing to do with the environment map.

[jiltedjock 10]

BIS did in-fact just include it because it looks pretty.

Hard to believe, given their fidelity to simulation.

[scrim 1]

Like in: No weapons resting. SABOT armour penetration = Didn't penetrate first time? Shoot again. Got shot in the chest, hardly notice it. No resting your cheek on the rifle stock, as illustrated by scopes that sway out of your FOV. Or "3D" scopes that magnify everything around the scope and doesn't even bother locking your view to the scope, giving everyone with TrackIR Superman vision. All scope reticles being "Generic reticle #101". Discovered mines turning up as red HUD triangles, etc.

That sort of simulation?

[timmo1982 10]

Actually one of the marketed lighting features for Arma 3 was light being visible in specular reflection. Meaning you can toss a chemlight and you will see it in specular, in this case it has nothing to do with the environment map.

Yes because it's a light source just like the sun is- One of the advances in Arma3 is that many more light sources can be rendered- You are seeing the reflection of the light source, not the chemlight geometry/model as such. Specular highlights are determined by light sources not other geometry in the environment (in this type of engine).

The strength of a 'reflection' is a function of light source strength, material parameters and size of the area reflecting (i.e. a flat surface will have a large area but only a small angle where light is reflected, a curved area will have a small region but a larger range of angles due to its shape)- I suspect the issue here is because the 'lens' on the scopes is actually flat (with a bump map applied to give the appearance of a curved surface.

[Cathrynn 10]

An interesting photo - http://coyotecanada.ca/weapons.html

Scroll down about half way to the seventh photo, you can tell where the sun is coming from by the long shadows cast by the tripod.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

That's from the camera, not the scope itself. You can obviously tell this by the fact that the glare itself is floating away from the ocular lens of the scope (And the fact that the anomaly is hexagonal in shape). And yet another case where your head would be shoved up close to the lens anyways, blocking out the sunlight entirely.

Honestly to me, it looks like another photo that disproves your thoughts.