Scope glare, yes or no?

[jiltedjock 10]

That sort of simulation?

I was being very sarcastic. TheCapulet believes that Arma is the last word in simulation.

[Cathrynn 10]

That's from the camera, not the scope itself. You can obviously tell this by the fact that the glare itself is floating away from the ocular lens of the scope (And the fact that the anomaly is hexagonal in shape). And yet another case where your head would be shoved up close to the lens anyways, blocking out the sunlight entirely.

Honestly to me, it looks like another photo that disproves your thoughts.

The only light that may have been coming from the camera would have been the active auto focus which is infrared, not white. The long shadows cast by the tripod give a good indication of where the sun is in the sky; but imagine for a second that the sun isn't coming from the left, but the right, casting the tripod shadows to the opposite side of the rifle. Now depending on who the person is, they're positioning and how they prefer to look down the scope, I'd say that any shadow cast by the persons head can and will miss the scopes rear lens given the type of conditions we're witnessing in the photo. It's not something that happens every day, granted, but rear scope reflections do happen, and don't forget, just because there's a reflection doesn't mean the person will necessarily notice it.

[Longjocks 0]

The reflection/flare isn't coming from the camera, it is the camera. If your eye was in that scene in place of the camera there would be no flare. It's why we have to always be careful with photos and video.

EDIT: I should mention that you'll be able to see what's going on re what TheCapulet said if you look at the original image size rather than how it's embedded in the webpage.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Longjocks

[Cathrynn 10]

The reflection/flare isn't coming from the camera, it is the camera. If your eye was in that scene in place of the camera there would be no flare. It's why we have to always be careful with photos and video.

EDIT: I should mention that you'll be able to see what's going on re what TheCapulet said if you look at the original image size rather than how it's embedded in the webpage.

Given the position of the reflection on the bottom half of the rear lens and it's angle in relation to the sun I know from experience that it's coming from the sun and not the camera, I've seen that type of reflection before. There's also the fact that there wouldn't be any light coming from the camera itself because the sun is behind the camera, casting only shadows, but even if there was some sun light hitting the top of the camera the light would be reflected upwards and away, not down onto the bottom of the scope lens. It's also possible that the camera could have been completely in shadow when the shot was taken but that's another argument entirely. As for the shape of the reflection I would suggest that the resolution, size, and focus of the image is the cause of that impression.

[Tonci87 163]

Google Lensflare FPDR

It´s a reflection on the camera lens itself. You cen tell that by the simple fact that there is a bright white reflection on the non reflective rubber material of the scope.

Face it you won´t find a photo showing a reflection on a gunsight

[Longjocks 0]

There's also the fact that there wouldn't be any light coming from the camera itself because the sun is behind the camera, casting only shadows, but even if there was some sun light hitting the top of the camera the light would be reflected upwards and away, not down onto the bottom of the scope lens.

I should reiterate that I agree it's not the camera reflecting or emitting light, etc. The effect is, as Tonci87 mentions, just a lens flare. Lens flare is an artefact created internally in a camera and dependant on several factors, including light not actually in the image. That's why I mentioned that if you have your eye in that position you won't see it.

[Cathrynn 10]

Gentlemen, I understand that lensflare can happen inside a camera but that's beside the point. From real life experience I've seen lensflare and bad reflections when looking into a scope, and by lensflare I mean sunlight that has entered through the rear lens, not the other way around.

When you have a moment please have a look at this little gem -

The highlights (watched in HD full screen):

0:45 - 0:52 Bottom left of scope, light starts reflecting on rear lens, please note the light on the black scope rim

0:53 - 054 Please note direction of sun by the shadow cast from the tree on left side of the picture

1:03 - 1:10 Sunlight can clearly be seen entering from the rear and lensflaring out to the front (if the person had taken the camera away and placed his eye in the same position he would still have seen the same thing, without question) Also please note the light cutting across the front of the scope rim

1:14 - 1:15 Please note that the lensflare moves with the scope and not in relation to the camera as the camera moves left to right (scope and lensflare move right to left as one)

1:15 More light reflections on rear lens bottom left

2:02 More light reflections on rear lens bottom left

2:16 Scope is now in a better position with much better shadow so no reflections on rear lens

The video above illustrates very well the problems that can occur when the conditions are right.

Here are a couple more vids if your interested -

0:12 - 0:23

from 6:32 onwards

I rest my case. :)

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

I'm sorry, but if you're really going to base your evidence off of a BB-Gun scope, you're tossing all credibility out the window. If that's your "real life experience", I'm done trying to convince you. It's clear that no matter how much evidence, real world experience from real shooters, and common sense we provide, it's not going to convince you.

I'll end this with the only real opinion I have on this topic. The reflections on the ocular lenses in game have to go. It's 100% pure fiction, and has no place in a simulator.

[Tonci87 163]

@Bear, Dude really?

What you yet again fail to realize is that a head is significantly bigger than a camera. You won´t have any refelctions on the lens if your head blocks out the sun. It can´t get simpler than that.

[Cathrynn 10]

@Bear, Dude really?

What you yet again fail to realize is that a head is significantly bigger than a camera. You won´t have any refelctions on the lens if your head blocks out the sun. It can´t get simpler than that.

I can only go with my experience of scopes in RL, and under the right conditions scope glare can and will happen.

[celery 8]

I can only go with my experience of scopes in RL, and under the right conditions scope glare can and will happen.

Looks like you're moving your goalposts here. You originally complained that someone else complained about annoying reflections, and as the evidence supporting the notion of no glare has been piling up, you hold on to the "right conditions" thing like it validates your point. It doesn't validate your point because the occasions where you'd get that would be very rare indeed, and as it stands it's very common in the game.

[Deadfast 43]

I can only go with my experience of scopes in RL, and under the right conditions scope glare can and will happen.

Under the right (or wrong) conditions you can also sprain your ankle, doesn't mean every second soldier should be jumping around on one leg.

[Longjocks 0]

Looks like you're moving your goalposts here. You originally complained that someone else complained about annoying reflections...

Bear, I have to admit that Celery's comment was the next thing I was going to bring up. I'm sure that under the so-called "right conditions" there may possibly be artifacts of light within a scope. I'm sure if it were just like it is in the image or video provided then you'd have few, if any, people complaining about it in game and this debate may not exist. However, the issue is a large circle of light which completely obstructs your view, even in conditions where no such light should exist. This is the issue as it is in-game, the point of discussion in your OP, and what we're primarily arguing against. The change in conversational direction to minor light reflection and lens flare is only spurred by the images and videos presented as evidence, each of which do not replicate what's seen in game and often have their own explanation outside of what they're intended to show.

I think the evidence required to change minds is something pointing to a real-life replication of ARMA's lens reflection with modern military-grade scopes.

[gatordev 214]

I think the evidence required to change minds is something pointing to a real-life replication of ARMA's lens reflection with modern military-grade scopes.

I've also yet to hear Bear's actual experience. Is this with a RCO or precision optic (I'm guessing not)? Or are we talking about a Scout scope with 8" eye-relief? I'd say you'd have a better likelihood of getting glare on a red dot, but I regularly shoot those and haven't ever noticed a problem in real life when shooting out in the sun with those, either.

So out with it...where are you seeing this? What kind of scope? Where is the sun when you experience this? Honestly, I'm not sure why I'm asking when it's clear it's an error in-game, but now you have piqued my curiosity.

[scrim 1]

I can only go with my experience of scopes in RL, and under the right conditions scope glare can and will happen.

So you're basing it of nothing? YT films of BB guns doesn't count as real life. If you've actually managed to get glare in an actual rifle scope IRL, then you can go ahead and consider yourself deserving a Darwin award, because it's probably easier to make the mistake of holding the rifle muzzle to shoulder than it is to hold it in such a manner that your head wouldn't actually make any glare impossible in the scope.

[suprememodder 11]

shadow maps will solve this. the stencil shadows do not self shade the guns, only the shadow map shows do.

[Cathrynn 10]

My real life experience comes from 22yrs as an eng-tech-w (plumber or armourer). I'm retired now but it makes no difference, and as I've said before, a number of times, reflections are not a common thing but will happen on the rear lens of a scope, any scope, under the correct conditions. Most of the time when a person is up at the aim, looking down the scope, they're concentrating so much on the scope picture and/or target that they don't notice any reflections, but that does not mean that the reflections never happen. A3 is obviously trying to replicate those reflection conditions, it may not be doing a very good job of it at the moment but at least it's a start.

My appologies for not starting this thread as a poll, it didn't cross my mind at the time.

[celery 8]

A3 is obviously trying to replicate those reflection conditions

No, it's not. The glass material reflects light sources because that's what it does.

[Cathrynn 10]

Longjocks, sorry for not responding sooner. I think most of us, myself included, are in agreement about the fact that the large circle of light that completely obstructs a players view when the rear of the scope is up at the aim and it's in shadow, needs to go. My reasoning for having the conversation about light reflections, for showing the pictures and videos, was simply to show that reflections do happen and therefore should not be gotten rid of completely from the game as they only add to the immersion; and as a few people have already mentioned, fixing the shadow issues would probably solve the large white blob in the middle of the scope while at the same time allowing the more subtle reflections to remain.

[scrim 1]

reflections do happen

Yes, artificially through cameras. That has been established.

[Cathrynn 10]

ACOG with light reflections on rear lens - 6:32 onwards

Examples of sunlight on rear of scope -

[progamer 14]

ACOG with light reflections on rear lens - 6:32 onwards

Examples of sunlight on rear of scope -

http://ubuntuone.com/5cNoT0cxOUVGmNHTOCaPxH

http://ubuntuone.com/7clf320S6AKGKdddTbFml0

How do we know the camera or video camera doesn't add the glare?

[-Coulum- 35]

Bear the thing is when you are looking through an optic you can look through the reflection. Its like looking into a glass window on a sunny day - from far away you can only see the reflection and at certain angles the glare - but up close you can look through the reflections and into the room.

Not saying that sunlight isn't annoying but they aren't anything like the big bright white spot on the lense in arma that you can't see through. In reality it only looks like that from far away. Up close its more like the first vid you posted on this page at 6:32. its there but you can see through it. And remember that the human eye can adjust to look through the glare (focusing on something behind the glass) whereas a camera does not.

If anything looking into the sun with optics is worse than having it behind you, imo.

[scrim 1]

Bear, are you actually making an effort to come across like an ignorant clown? There is nothing more to say, you've obviously stuck your head 3 feet down into the sand when you were confronted with reality, i.e. that you had no clue what you were talking about.

[Cathrynn 10]

ProGamer: Are you asking if the light reflections seen in the ACOG video are happening inside the video camera it's self instead of on the rear lens of the ACOG?

Coulum: I completely agree! The large white blob of light in A3 that appears in the centre of the '3D' scope when it's in shadow is not what's seen in RL when the rifle and scope are up at the aim, the large light blob seen in game should not be there. The more subtle lighting effects however, seen around the edge of the scope when the sun is behind a player, can and do happen in RL when the conditions are correct so why not in A3 also? And when a player is looking through the '3D' scope they're consentration is going to be on their target and not on any reflections that might be happening at the edge of the scope, not that the reflections would happen that often anyway due to shadows etc.