CiA Petition Letter to BIS and DnA's Response

[bad benson 1733]

just putting this part of the letter here for everyone who missed it.

We’re not trying to advocate a system like ACE with morphine and bandages and CPR, but we feel that getting shot has too little impact and that a system in module form, like that in Arma 2, is very much a requirement.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Bad Benson

[pd3 25]

Yes, this.

An effective deterrent to the whole: "either like it or pay out the backside for VBS" - false dichotomy.

[chortles 263]

You should also be boldfacing the module part, that would give more strength to the argument... "it's one thing if uncustomized vanilla (not just unmodded) is like this, but another to deprive us of a first aid module at all, even one as bad/no improvement as Arma 2's".

[laverniusregalis 10]

I'll toss in my thoughts on the letter.

MOVEMENT

I feel like overall, the way movement works in ArmA3 is a great step forward. The only thing I disagree with is how the soldiers feel weightless, and don't start sprinting a bit slower then speed up as they continue running, but I have no other gripes.

LOADOUT

I think the main problem is how some things are too light. Otherwise, I love the new inventory.

MEDICAL

FAKs should, in my opinion, only heal some of the player. Let's say he has 100HP. The FAK item should, in my opinion, heal him back to 80HP max, and only heal a total of 40HP. And it would be interesting if, on higher difficulties, players would bleed as they take damage and the FAK would only stop the bleeding.

[chortles 263]

@ steamtex: Right now FAKs do indeed only heal up to a certain amount max.

[Variable 322]

Nothing was ever directed at you so please lets keep those little emotions calm please and not get blurred with it all, pretending you were attacked by the word Shite in here wont get you another Dev reply so lets concentrate on the debate in hand , you want something i dont want lets see if the compromise is a module or something yeah ? .

Hey Mister, I think you should be the one that needs to take the chill pill. Nobody ever said that this letter is representing anyone except those who signed it. It was published just because DnA replied and we thought that it would be beneficial for the community to read what he has to say and have a nice discussion, and not for you to call features that are important to other people ""shit". We, or the letter, don't mock your preferences, so please, if you can't participate in a civil debate, pick your legs and take them elsewhere.

More like "supposedly open letter"...

We didn't publish this letter as a post on the forums because we didn't want to start a flame war. Although if it would, I suppose a lot more people would have signed it. In any case, we would have sent this letter even if it was just us CiA members, and not 56 other people.

[Alwarren 2765]

your offended i hurt the word Inertias feeling ?

Nothing was ever directed at you so please lets keep those little emotions calm please and not get blurred with it all, pretending you were attacked by the word Shite in here wont get you another Dev reply so lets concentrate on the debate in hand , you want something i dont want lets see if the compromise is a module or something yeah ? .

Just take some effort to stay civil, that shouldn't be asking too much, and discuss like a grown up not a 13 year old kiddie.

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:49 ----------

@ steamtex: Right now FAKs do indeed only heal up to a certain amount max.

75 or 80 percent. FAK's should just stop bleeding, and maybe heal 10% or so at most. As they are now, they're just simply too overpowered.

[Smurf 12]

FAKs set you damage to .25 no matter if your damage is .26 or .99.

EDIT: Oh yeah, health system is THAT simple.

[chortles 263]

75 or 80 percent. FAK's should just stop bleeding, and maybe heal 10% or so at most. As they are now, they're just simply too overpowered.

I was posting to indicate that FAKs are in fact working as steamtex's wish was.

[pd3 25]

FAKs set you damage to .25 no matter if your damage is .26 or .99.

EDIT: Oh yeah, health system is THAT simple.

I'm surprised they didn't include modifiers for hits to extremities.

That is to say: being shot in the arm will mess up your aiming, or legs: your walking - however may require more hits to put you out of "commission" entirely than say hits to center of mass.

A2 had something like that, are you saying A3 doesn't or?

[laverniusregalis 10]

@ steamtex: Right now FAKs do indeed only heal up to a certain amount max.

I was suggesting they don't just instaheal to 80%, but rather if a player has 100% health, and is shot down to 10% health, they use a FAK which only heals say 20-40% health right away, stops bleeding if that is added on higher difficulty, and can't heal to 81%+ health.

[Smurf 12]

It does for the legs, you can only walk; Not sure about the arms but I think it doesn't have any effect.

BI tried to do something and fail for time or resources constrains so they left this (too) simple systems. OK, I understand that.

But that means they won't try again? I think that is the question everyone wants to know the answer to. Yes or no?

Yes; Ok, we'll wait.

No; Oh well... ok, let's move on.

But don't come with "no promisses" because it anchieves nothing.

[AndrewsRG 22]

Contact me if you need support, signatures or anything else.

This is a very much needed push in the right direction. +1 CiA.

[MissionCreep 12]

Thank you CiA and DNA for your efforts to start a conversation about how to improve the Arma3 to the point where vision and reality can come together as smoothly as possible.

All I know is that I enjoy Arma3's operational smoothness, the large terrain, improved lighting and superior AI compared to Arma2. I can wait for content (I don't feel the need for a choice of 50 different handguns - yet). I am looking forward to more content and improvements to come down the pipeline from both BI and the Community as I explore the first iteration of the official release.

Signed -MissionCreep.

[PlacidPaul 11]

A very well thought out letter, by people who really understand the game. Also, a great response, will have to read that again.

Looking forward to hearing more on the subject matter. Hope BI can make some headway in these three areas. Thanks for all you hard work BI!

[icewindo 29]

It does for the legs, you can only walk; Not sure about the arms but I think it doesn't have any effect.

You mean A2 or A3?

Didn't pay attention to arms / aiming yet but if that is gone too, I'd be disappointed.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Icewindo

[twisted 127]

As far as weapon having differences due to weight and size there is a built in variable called dexterity. AFAIK This controls how heavy a weapon feels. Sure that's not the same as collision shape but it's instantly available for tweaking...

Edited September 26, 2013 by twisted

[LoneCrow66 10]

pffft this is a farce. They lose 67 people and gained probably 20,000 by making it a little more user friendly for the rest of us. The modding community can pick up the rest of the slack

[-Coulum- 35]

pffft this is a farce. They lose 67 people and gained probably 20,000 by making it a little more user friendly for the rest of us. The modding community can pick up the rest of the slack

Oh yes, I am sure the modding community loves to repeatedly "fix" the lack of realism and "pick up the slack" over and over again for every iteration of the game free of charge...

Thanks for the response DnA. I am really looking forward to how development will go from here. Arma 2 1.60+ has come a long way from 1.00. If we are starting at Arma 3 1.00 now I can only imagine how awesome the game will be come 1.60+.

I think what's really the problem is the release date. If the game still had the Beta status there would be a ton less complaining. But I guess you gotta do what you gotta do and I am sure you guys have your reasons.

[froggyluv 2130]

I think what's really the problem is the release date. If the game still had the Beta status there would be a ton less complaining.

LOL -seriously? Where you here at Beta?

[Smurf 12]

You mean A2 or A3?

Didn't pay attention to arms / aiming yet but if that is gone too, I'd be disappointed.

Shooting in the arms there is some sway but holding your breath makes you aim pretty steady for some seconds. Shoot in legs you can't pass the walk speed, but otherwise all fine. Both A3. Pretty much the same as A2, someone that still playing it may get a better comparison.

Oh yeah, take a FAK and you get fine from either leg or arms wounds, just the screen keeps flashing red and some moaning (usgin JSRS, kind of fine).

But I still have hopes. Because of

I created this. Don't know about skeletons and all that but all the hitpoint detections are in both games...

[-Coulum- 35]

LOL -seriously? Where you here at Beta?

Yeah true, the complaining was always pretty bad. But I do feel that if we were still in beta and the game release was a year from now there would be a whole lot less "doomsday" talk.

[progamer 14]

What happened with people and realism? Every time I hear someone mention Arma on other game forums or media, they are usually telling people if they want realism go play Arma. When news of Arma 3 came out, people wanted the vanillia Arma 3 to be like ACE. Now I find people argue against realism and want assets to be artifically changed to be balanced. The developers hinted that areas lacking realism like the medical system will be worked on. Are people upset that this just had 67 signatures? Because I would bet there would be thousands if it were public, because one of the major things that separates Arma from every other game is that you are just a soldier in a realistic battlefield and not some super human soldier. I personally love this game for what it does differently and how open the developers are to the community. You just can't find developers like these anymore.

---------- Post added at 01:30 ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 ----------

This ticket here: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=14351 Is for having the FAK be openable and have the player pull out what first aid items he/she needed then if needed have a medic open up his kit and pull out the heavy duty stuff.

[Harbinger2456 10]

Yeah true, the complaining was always pretty bad. But I do feel that if we were still in beta and the game release was a year from now there would be a whole lot less "doomsday" talk.

I agree. The whole problem right now is that the game obviously still is in beta. At least we hope. The big question is, are they going to do a WHOLE lot more to add in inertia, weapons clashing against walls, realistic weight system, and my biggest peeve - some REALISTIC FLIGHT MODELS! The one's they have right now are horrid crap. Some of this is hardcoded engine stuff, and I don't exactly see a lot of modders running over from Arma 2 to come save this game. I have seen some of the major ones actually decline to.

As of right now, I still don't see any real reason to buy Arma 3 if you already have Arma 2. Improved graphics and movement would be the only 2 things I could think of. But, then of course, you get all the "less than Arma 2" crap with it.

---------- Post added at 01:42 ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 ----------

When news of Arma 3 came out, people wanted the vanillia Arma 3 to be like ACE.

Oh yeah. I'm one of those.

Are people upset that this just had 67 signatures? Because I would bet there would be thousands if it were public...

You bet there would have been.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Harbinger2456

[MavericK96 0]

pffft this is a farce. They lose 67 people and gained probably 20,000 by making it a little more user friendly for the rest of us. The modding community can pick up the rest of the slack

Who said they "lost" us? It's just a commentary on how the game mechanic has changed since ArmA 2.