CiA Petition Letter to BIS and DnA's Response

[windies 11]

The letter hits home on some of the major issue's with core functionality of the vanilla game. If I had known about it I would have signed it.

I appreciate Joris's response, We all knew there were problems behind the scene and I think most of us are understanding of it. I would venture to say that there was a serious question of "Is this the direction ArmA is going in now?" as opposed to "Is this Where ArmA 3 is at because of development problems and issue's". I think DnA pretty much answered that with his response. Hopefully the future holds good things for ArmA 3, I'm hoping that with time the kinks will get worked out.

[Tacti-Cool 10]

I think that all points on this list are good valid points, hell, they could have added a lot more to that list. Different strokes for different folks people. I read it as a representation of a small group, not at any time did i feel like I was being spoken for, or that my voice was taken away from me. And props to the CiA for taking the time to write this letter to BIS, and if you dont agree/ didnt have your points on there, no one is stopping you from WRITING YOUR OWN

[-ghost-tf 12]

Thanks DnA for your response, much appreciated.

[Variable 322]

Actually, I'm regret replying to Neurofunker. Looking at the three posts that answered him, I think we have just witnessed a successful trolling mission.

[windies 11]

I think that it is a common misconception that some people have about criticism.

Criticism is not hate. You criticize something (especially constructive) if you care about it. Otherwise, you wouldn't.

I criticize a lot. I don't hate Arma 3. I have 270 hours on it, more than most other titles I have on Steam. I intent to do missions for it now that it stopped being a moving target with ever-morphing class names.

However, I think it is actually pretty normal to point out things that you think could be better. This letter was just meant to point those things out.

This 100%. I bitch and criticize quite a bit about performance issue's and certain functionalities that should be in the vanilla game and not need to be modded in by modders. It's not because I hate the game, or hate the developers, but because I want the game to be the best it can be. If I hated the game I would just uninstall and move on and not say a word. Instead I want to share opinions and idea's, hopefully with the developers, to hopefully make the game a better experience.

[Varanon 892]

II would gladly sign that petition!

It's not a petition, actually. It's just a letter outlining the points we were concerned about.

[Colossus 2]

Yes, great letter and response. Though much of it has been said and answered before, it has for the most part been conveyed in fractions across the A3 forum.

The points are a concern, though hopefully in due time we'll see DnA's and the rest of the developers' vision come clearer. As of right now it's, on my part at least, a waiting game.

Hear, hear, for postmortem analysis. As for previous postmortem analysis, Spanel's postmortem on Operation Flashpoint might be of interest. I think there exist another one - it might as well be an interview - but I'm not completely sure.

Edited September 25, 2013 by colossus
Re-elaborated

[rfxcasey 1]

It's called "Freedom of Speech". And it was signed by 67 people. It was written by a group of people that are concerned about the direction the game is taking. There is nothing wrong with it, at least we tried to argue our case instead of using "fuck" all over the place.

Yeah, and then they posted it here, thinking we would all be like "Oh you guys are so great, BIS actually responded to you!" Get a life. I stand by my original statement and yes saying "the long-time fans of the series" does imply a certain heir of absolution. So I guess the rest of use that don't fully agree don't fit into "the long-time fans". This letter sounds like some obnoxious college kid petitioning a congressional comity. I have an idea, lets just keep everything exactly the way it is and never change anything. If you don't like 3 then go back to 2 if you love it so much.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Yes i see, i didn't try to make a scandal of it or anything, if that latter helps improving arma, i'm all up for it. This looked to me like someone were trying to impose their personaly / small team group vision, on how the game should have vent in their personal wishes. I think we are all on same team, and should act as one.

[instagoat 133]

Very good reply from the devs, thanks for this everyone! This is an example of very good communication, I think, and makes me hopeful for the future of the project as it settles and continues to expand.

Meanwhile I am trying myself to be constructive, rather than cynical and sarcastic in my replies to issues. At times it is difficult, but I think this collected and calm reply does a great deal to calming the waves a bit, and giving focus to the rather swirly and blurry past two weeks.

[chortles 263]

rfxcasey, I might agree with you if they hadn't included what is claimed to be DnA's response that was sent and received today... though much of it, frankly, restates a bunch of official statements and dev comments alike while being "diplomatically neutral" as to the exact details of nature of the specific "internal vision of Arma" (not least since that may not be universal among the devs ;) ) as well as just what he meant be "where the project was headed a year ago".

[NeuroFunker 11]

Actually, I'm regret replying to Neurofunker. Looking at the three posts that answered him, I think we have just witnessed a successful trolling mission.

well, i didnt try to insult here anyone. I dissagreed with this latter, and tried to explain why, but it's you who called me a troll. Did i miss something, mate?

[Sealife 22]

the letter and its subsequent publicly posting on the forums makes a mockery of the 1000`s ( yes including female units ) of requests that lie stale on the bug tracker

"its not a petition" yet you anounce it as one

"Its not representing the community " yet you anounce it as a community open letter

Got to be honest there is only self gratification that fits with your reasons for posting this letter

if you want a better loadout and medical system use the Bug tracker else everyone with a clan of 67 or more now has a valid claim for a response and it will just get stupid.

My vote is to remove the letter and do what everyone else in such matter is told daily use the bug tracker

Edited September 25, 2013 by Sealife

[ak1287 1]

My big question;

if I get 100 signatures on my letter, does that invalidate this one?

Joking aside, I don't really care about Comrades in Arms, no offense, or their opinions. I disagree with some of their ideas, although I think it's safe to say that everyone will find at least one in that letter that they find agreeable.

What I did like was DnA's response letter. It definitely supplied insight into the entire development process that I think a lot of people were lacking, either through willful ignorance or just plain stupidity.

[HKFlash 9]

Yeah, and then they posted it here, thinking we would all be like "Oh you guys are so great, BIS actually responded to you!" Get a life. I stand by my original statement and yes saying "the long-time fans of the series" does imply a certain heir of absolution. So I guess the rest of use that don't fully agree don't fit into "the long-time fans". This letter sounds like some obnoxious college kid petitioning a congressional comity. I have an idea, lets just keep everything exactly the way it is and never change anything. If you don't like 3 then go back to 2 if you love it so much.

WOW, you negatively impress me, your rethoric is pathethic!

[Varanon 892]

"its not a petition" yet you anounce it as one

Yeah, sorry, didn't notice that it said "petition". It was my understanding when I signed it that it was not meant to be one.

Got to be honest there is only self gratification that fits with your reasons for posting this letter

Uhm, self-gratification ? No, actually. It's your interpretation of it.

if you want a better loadout and medical system use the Bug tracker else everyone with a clan of 67 or more now has a valid claim for a response and it will just get stupid.

Actually, there are quite a lot of those on the issue tracker, thank you. And as always, appreciate being called stupid.

My vote is to remove the letter and do what everyone else in such matter is told daily use the bug tracker

Well, it's not up for voting.. pity, huh ?

For your information, we used the bug tracker quite a lot, voted tickets related to those issue, and created our own tickets.

[Sealife 22]

And as always, appreciate being called stupid.

if you can justify that i am willing to re evaluate your logic here .

[rfxcasey 1]

Very good reply from the devs, thanks for this everyone! This is an example of very good communication, I think, and makes me hopeful for the future of the project as it settles and continues to expand.

Meanwhile I am trying myself to be constructive, rather than cynical and sarcastic in my replies to issues. At times it is difficult, but I think this collected and calm reply does a great deal to calming the waves a bit, and giving focus to the rather swirly and blurry past two weeks.

First off, the continued development is almost a given, unless the company goes under. The more money BIS can make the more they can put back into development though folks opinion on progress varies considerably. And just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that its not constructive to have a dialog, however people will be bitching and whining till the end of time about this feature and that, what was added and what was taken away. I personally thing Arma 3 is a breath of fresh air after a long love hate relationship with Arma 2. If some of you loved Arma 2 THAT much, perhaps its your turn to experience the love and hate. Thankfully, history shows that you will not get ALL you are asking for so you may not ruin things for the rest of us. If you love Arma 2, you have a choice, go play Arma 2, plain and simple.

Edited September 25, 2013 by rfxcasey

[Alwarren 2765]

My big question;

if I get 100 signatures on my letter, does that invalidate this one?

Joking aside, I don't really care about Comrades in Arms, no offense, or their opinions. I disagree with some of their ideas, although I think it's safe to say that everyone will find at least one in that letter that they find agreeable. .

Read again. We don't claim this is valid, we claim it is our OPINION. Nothing else. If you can raise 100 signatures, fine, but this isn't about being right or being wrong. It's about perception. Opinion. Taste.

Nothing else.

[smokedog3para 365]

Jeez back the fuck up, arma3 is great. Hate those people who start open letters because they dont like a feature and act as if they are freeing political prisoners. Also being in a clan does not mean shit, clans are a tiny fragment of the people that bought the game, so stop acting like the ambassadors of arma gamers.

Arma3 is great, and the new animation system alone is worth more than 20 arma2 vehicles. So dont even start with the "lack of content" shit because if you do you have no clue how much content there is in arma3, and believe it or not, arma3 has more content than arma2 + oa. Because content is more than just counting the units in the editor list

actually the content excluding vehicles and planes, object wise there is hardly any compared to a2 chairs tables sofas tents so much missing from what a2 had as i like to make missions and terrains these objects make the scene\mission\terrain the devil is in the detail and there is not much to use at the moment. its like travellers have invaded altis and stole every thing that was not nailed down

Edited September 25, 2013 by SmokeDog3PARA

[Binkowski 25]

My big question;

if I get 100 signatures on my letter, does that invalidate this one?

Joking aside, I don't really care about Comrades in Arms, no offense, or their opinions. I disagree with some of their ideas, although I think it's safe to say that everyone will find at least one in that letter that they find agreeable.

What I did like was DnA's response letter. It definitely supplied insight into the entire development process that I think a lot of people were lacking, either through willful ignorance or just plain stupidity.

This letter and thread isn't even about CiA. It's about the fact that there was an actual reply by the project lead of ArmA 3 regarding our concerns. Which I find is quite good, at least they took the time to read and reply to it.

[ak1287 1]

This letter and thread isn't even about CiA. It's about the fact that there was an actual reply by the project lead of ArmA 3 regarding our concerns. Which I find is quite good, at least they took the time to read and reply to it.

Yeah. That's exactly what I was saying.

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:40 ----------

Read again. We don't claim this is valid, we claim it is our OPINION. Nothing else. If you can raise 100 signatures, fine, but this isn't about being right or being wrong. It's about perception. Opinion. Taste.

Nothing else.

I think I either wasn't thick enough with the sarcasm on the first part, or you missed it.

[gammadust 12]

Great feedback letter, gratz CiA. Some very good points in there.

Great dev response, gratz DnA. Let's keep the spirit up for the upcomming challenges.

PS: There is simply no object for the heated exchange going around. Why oh why do some people have the urge to discuss certain stuff of no consequence to them or anyone else losing their posture in the process. Agree/disagree with the letter, agree/disagree with the reponse, please stop with the meta. Really!

[rfxcasey 1]

WOW, you negatively impress me, your rethoric is pathethic!

I find all the whining about the sim "pathethic!". Its the same everywhere you go, people are always crying about the latest iteration of a series. If you all compare Arma 3 to the rest of the crap out there you'd see its heads and tails above most other titles at this early stage of the game.

Why oh why do some people have the urge to discuss certain stuff of no consequence to them or anyone else losing their posture in the process. Agree/disagree with the letter, agree/disagree with the reponse, please stop with the meta. Really!

How is it of "no consequence" to me if enough of the whiners sway the devs. Or were you not referring to the likes of myself. The rest of us will just have to start an anti-petition.

Edited September 25, 2013 by rfxcasey

[Alwarren 2765]

I think I either wasn't thick enough with the sarcasm on the first part, or you missed it.

Apparently, I missed it.