Chechnya

[Benze 0]

I know about most of the conflicts in the world but I have never seen this really explained. What is all the fighting for?

EDIT: A chronology would be VERY helpful.

[Longinius 1]

Its about independence, last I heard.

[KingBeast 0]

Checnya wished to separate, Russia did not wish them to separate. Russia sent in troops en masse, checnan men women and children retaliate, much killing on both sides, not a very nice place.

I think thats pretty accurate.

[ran 0]

it ca, be compared to a new afghanistan , but in a smaller scale (not really smaller though)

[ralphwiggum 6]

and then some Chechens wet to Dagestan to increase battlefield, got their ass kicked.

[pathfinder 0]

The show Wide Angle(PBS) had a very interesting show about this topic.  They had a camera man along with speznaz troops

rounding up chechn men.  The whole thing almost brought me to tears ,until the chechens showed how they loved Osma bin

ladden.  But I still feel sad for both sides as it looks like a daily hell over there.

I would have brought it to eveyones attention the night I saw it but seeing we all come from different countries ,I didn't think it would have helped people with different broadcast stations.

Their web site incase you want the episode

Wide Angle

You got to go into the show finder and click (Greetings from Grozny ) to find the episode.

And if you click (web episode ) you'll get a time line and more.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I have seen some blood chilling images from Chechnya, depicting atrocities that would make Amnesty International's chairman have a brain hemmorhage. Basically, I would be banned if I even thought of posting links lol.

My take- both sides are fucked up, it is an unwinnable conflict, and it is the sucking chest wound that is keeping Russia from squaring itself away and joining us in the 21st century

[bn880 5]

Absolutely, if a province (state) votes by a majority to seperate and are determined to do it, I think they have some right to do it.

Does not have to be a vote, jsut a strong support to seperate.

If Russia was not so forceful and controlling maybe they wouldn't even want out?

[Exodist 1]

In 1999 Chechens invased to Dagestan

Active fase of war (yes - War) 1999 - 2000

After 2000 Chechens terrorists use only mine-war and terrorism, they kill civilians who support russian army.

In this days Chechens have training camps in Georgia - Pankisia. Geogian govenment NOTHING make against this. Month ago Chechens group want went to Russia from Georgia - group (~50 men) destroyed. Georgian army support this

Sorry my English....

[Tex -USMC- 0]

let me guess- The Russian army is just building houses and schools in Chechnya, right?

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Right now, believe it or not , I am supporting Russia over Chechnya at this point in time.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I think Russia should withdraw, and Chechen terrorists should be strung up.

[Guest]

I see the Chechen situation to be similar to the early days of the Yugoslav conflict when Yugoslavia tried by force to keep Slovenia and Croatia within the Yugoslav confederation. The difference is that nobody dares to really tell off Russia and the fact that the Chechens are muslims.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Exodist @ Aug. 20 2002,18:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In 1999 Chechens invased to Dagestan

Active fase of war (yes - War) 1999 - 2000

After 2000 Chechens terrorists use only mine-war and terrorism, they kill civilians who support russian army.

In this days Chechens have training camps in Georgia - Pankisia. Geogian govenment NOTHING make against this. Month ago Chechens group want went to Russia from Georgia - group (~50 men) destroyed. Georgian army support this

Sorry my English....

<span id='postcolor'>

This is what you mean right:

In 1999 Chechnyans invaded Dagestan.

The active phaze of was (yes - War) was 1999 - 2000.

After 2000, Chechnyan terrorists used only a mine war and terrorism. They kill civilians who support the Russian army.

These days Chechnyans have training camps in Georgia - Pankisia.

The Georgian government does NOTHING against this. A month ago a Chechnyan group wanted to go from Georgia to Russia, the group (~50 men) were killed. The Georgian army supports this.

[Badgerboy 0]

This is why you hear about reports of Russian aircraft striking targets in Georgia, and nothing happening about it.

Technically its an act of war, but Georgia won't speak out against it, as it'll just get itself in trouble.

'By the way, can you stop stiking those training camps... uh, I mean.... schools! Yes your striking schools full of AK47 weilding nutters.... no.... uh... schoolkids'

I've seen some of those videos Tex talked about. Killing a man is one thing. Capturing, torturing, and killing someone for fun is just sickening.

Being staked out in the sun and raped by packs of wolves is too good for those fuckers.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Aug. 21 2002,01:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've seen some of those videos Tex talked about. Killing a man is one thing. Capturing, torturing, and killing someone for fun is just sickening.<span id='postcolor'>

Ehh-hem. Ive seen some pretty ghastly stuff from both sides of the battlefield.

[zverushka 0]

Its a situation very much like vietnam out there, and face it, the American soldiers there weren't exactly clean of killing civilians.

But that's war.

Its definately like vietnam

Imagine you, taken out of high school, put into basic training where the officers treat you like a piece of shit (drill sergeant hartman is nothing), then you get thrown out into this cold, alien land, where anyone could be a rebel. They could be clean shaven, nice looking guys , and then they take out a pistol and kill ya, anturally you'd get some paranoia. Its exactly like vietnam, except vietnam was worse, more civvies were killed, and it was longer and bigger, more deaths overall.

You know about american soldiers takin' it out on the "dinks" and the "gooks".

Well russian soldiers take it out on "mujahedy" (mujahedins) and "bandity" (bandits).

Its the same sit. out there. it ain't pretty.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (zverushka @ Aug. 21 2002,01:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">. Its exactly like vietnam, except vietnam was worse, more civvies were killed, and it was longer and bigger, more deaths overall.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not sure on the "worse and longer" part...it could keep on going forever... At least I can't see why it would stop anytime soon...

[Col. Kurtz 0]

*Sigh* Yet another conflict tat will drag on, and civilians will suffer. And what could be done to stop it? A peace treaty? Not likely. Send in the UN? What good can they do? Let America 'Liberate' it? i doubt they would do that because they are 'friends' with Russia, and even if they did invade, they would probably not make the mess much better. The Chechen rebels wont stop fighting until Chechnya is under their control, and the Russians wont stop fighting until there are no more Rebels.

[rocketjager 0]

I have'nt heard anything of the war in Chechnya since the Russians basically wiped Grozny off the map, I was under the impression that the level of fighting had gone down, but that just might be the media's impression.

[desantnik 0]

See the problem is that when countries asked for their independance from Russian and Russia gave them that independance like Azerbijan, the Chechans wanted it too. It would not have been such a problem if Chechnya was 400 hundred miles in any other direction but from what I heard it is sitting on a big pile of oil, which Russia needs. Also the problem is that with every strike the terrorists (-rebels-) (politically correct) make the more paranoid the Russians become, actually you cant believe one side or the other so it is all a big freakin mess which my cousin is training for under Leningrad (St. Petersburg),  but I am generally biased in supporting the Russians as I am one but it is inadvisable to believe any side in Chechnya.

Some links to pictures of Chechya

Chechen weapons

View of a Russian

[desantnik 0]

"The Grozny Oil Institute: Before the war, Grozny was a major center for oil refining (6.5 million tons of petroleum in 1992). Oil has been extracted commercially here since the 1890s and Grozny was a hub for oil engineers from throughout the Caucasus and Russia. In this shot, the Grozny Oil Institute, which trained many engineers in the oil refineries in Grozny, lies in ruins, while black smoke from burning oil wells covers the city. Fires flare up periodically from Grozny's oil wells, sometimes burning out of control for months, blackening the sky, and polluting the water tables."

from the Wide Angle site

[LauryThorn 0]

Russia has always tried to wipe out those who have tried to separate.

Like Finland, the baltic countries and so on.

The situation there is very much fucked up, and you don't hear much

news from there because Russians won't tell you much.

However, the chechens have my sympathy on this.

Calling them terrorists is stupid. Why won't you call them guerilla or

resistance fighters?

And for links:

Seek "cecenonline" from Google.

EDIT:

I know my opinion on this is biased, but I'm not alone in this thread..

[Oligo 1]

Laury, I think you listened too keenly to the officers, when you served...

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Laury, I think you listened too keenly to the officers, when you served... <span id='postcolor'>

What do you mean?