Animal testing

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ Aug. 20 2002,16:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I said you probably think that communism works because I've know people with your views in the past and they were mostly of the pinko hippie types that think killing of any kind is wrong, even in times of war.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, i know. Your kind has many names for people who think like i do. I really hope you dont think it disempowers us to use such names for us. Because you cant kill an idea, and you cant disempower me either. New kids come up every day with ideas very similar to mine, and youd be hard pressed to disempower them as well.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I love you guys

[Renagade 0]

and plenty more do it just becuase............

[cybrid 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Aculaud Posted on Aug. 20 2002,19:31

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Quote (cybrid @ Aug. 20 2002,16:26)

I said you probably think that communism works because I've know people with your views in the past and they were mostly of the pinko hippie types that think killing of any kind is wrong, even in times of war.

Yes, i know. Your kind has many names for people who think like i do. I really hope you dont think it disempowers us to use such names for us. Because you cant kill an idea, and you cant disempower me either. New kids come up every day with ideas very similar to mine, and youd be hard pressed to disempower them as well. <span id='postcolor'>

May I ask why then are you involved in a war game?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ Aug. 21 2002,01:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">May I ask why then are you involved in a war game?<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I’m what I like to refer to as a fantasy war enthusiast. The idea of things like methods of employing forces in combat, tactics, military history, and more specifically, things like special forces and sniping intrigue me to no end, but its something I’d never want to be part of in real life.<span id='postcolor'>

That would be Aculauds profile

[cybrid 0]

cool tex, where did you find that?

[Aculaud 0]

Gracias, Tex

[Tex -USMC- 0]

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....0148057

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ Aug. 20 2002,16:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">cool tex, where did you find that?<span id='postcolor'>

The little button on the bottom of each and every one of my posts that says "Profile"

[cybrid 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The little button on the bottom of each and every one of my posts that says "Profile"<span id='postcolor'>

Well I'll be damned. If I had any ambition, I could have an interest section too.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Breeding animals for our own uses is polluting the world! There are millions of cows in countries around the world, and all those cows produce metahne, which goes up and BURNS the ozone layer up! So eating cows is going to BURN the world! Be afraid, be very afraid.

Ok, animals are not as advanced as us, they cant do funky things like make computers(they dont have hands!(but animals have a full set of nerves and emotions, and feel and react to pain every bit as a human would. If you mian a human, it feels it, you maim an animal, same thing. We only chose to maim animals because we couldnt bare to hurt our own species, we find a species, say its dumb and is below us and procede to do all the nasty thing we dont want to do to humans.

When the Animals revolt and take over the world, only Aculand and myself from these forums shall be spared! All of yous shall be cast into cages and slaughtered to feed the animals. Think of it, imagine yourself been put on a conveyor belt, been taken down a line, and then been killed with a bolt to the head. Then you are cut open, gutted, all your best meat is cut up by cows with big knives, then you are put into little packages and sent all over the country to be eaten by families of ship for dinner! Kinda a funny idea, would be a cool movie, when Aniamls revolt!

[Aculaud 0]

LOL....right on

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 21 2002,04:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Breeding animals for our own uses is polluting the world! There are millions of cows in countries around the world, and all those cows produce metahne, which goes up and BURNS the ozone layer up! So eating cows is going to BURN the world! Be afraid, be very afraid.

Ok, animals are not as advanced as us, they cant do funky things like make computers(they dont have hands!(but animals have a full set of nerves and emotions, and feel and react to pain every bit as a human would. If you mian a human, it feels it, you maim an animal, same thing. We only chose to maim animals because we couldnt bare to hurt our own species, we find a species, say its dumb and is below us and procede to do all the nasty thing we dont want to do to humans.

When the Animals revolt and take over the world, only Aculand and myself from these forums shall be spared! All of yous shall be cast into cages and slaughtered to feed the animals. Think of it, imagine yourself been put on a conveyor belt, been taken down a line, and then been killed with a bolt to the head. Then you are cut open, gutted, all your best meat is cut up by cows with big knives, then you are put into little packages and sent all over the country to be eaten by families of ship for dinner! Kinda a funny idea, would be a cool movie, when Aniamls revolt!<span id='postcolor'>

Go watch animal farm instead....

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Aug. 20 2002,14:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I accept the necessity of animal testing. But then again let them have a real life as well. Damn, allways in those sterile environments, fully ignored, fully isolated and then dying. Wow, great!  

Furtermore I dont think that cloning or viral research for military purposes has any use! None at all!

Often we have to deal with real animal-experiments than animal-testing. Often experiments are made without the realy knowing what aim the whole thing has.<span id='postcolor'>

What do you mean with a "real life"? You're judging the conditions of the lab animals with human terms. The mice, for example, in their lab boxes have toilet paper to play with and to hide in. They have food to eat and water to drink. For a mouse, this is what it wants to do. It definitely does not want to interact with any big scary humans or fight for territory with other mice. They're not free, but they have a very cozy environment from a mouse's point of view.

Cloning has many useful applications aside from reproduction. Cloning of organs for example is a very nice example of this. If you drink your liver to oblivion, they could just clone you a new one. Cloning of stem cells is also a very promising application, which could cure countless ailments. This is why cloning research should not be banned.

Experiments or tests with animals are never done without knowing what the aim of the whole thing is. Before doing anything, you have to apply for a permit, in which you have to present a research plan among other things. The panel which reviews the applications has not only scientist members, but philosophers as well among others. This crap about no aims in research is just an animal activist lie.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ Aug. 20 2002,15:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How about using terrorists and murderers for medical tests instead of animals?

1: The cuddly little beasts gets to live.

2: The nasty terrorists gets to die.

3: Testing on humans is much more effective than testing on animals.<span id='postcolor'>

First of all, there aren't enough terrorists for all the experiments. Secondly, I at least would have a problem injecting humans with experimental substances, when I already feel quite awful doing it to mice.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ Aug. 20 2002,21:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hence, i'm pretty sure my stick of botanical deoderant is fairly safe to believe as cruelty free.<span id='postcolor'>

It's very easy to check whether your deodorant is cruelty free. If it has a label: "Warning: Not tested for safety" or something similar, it is cruelty free. If you check the material I quoted, you'll notice that all untested products have to be labelled like that as per orders by your FDA.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ Aug. 21 2002,00:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let me explain something to you, Espectro. Animals (mammals, in this case) have brains with which to think, hearts with which to pump blood, diggestive systems with which to process food, excretory systems with which to get rid of toxins, nervous systems with which to feel, bone structures with which to hold them together, etc. unlike you.

They have everything it takes to be alive. They are no more dead than we are. They are no less alive than we are. Many of them are less evolved than us, few are more evolved than us. According to science, a human invention, we are no more worthy of respect than they are. I hope someday you'll get this.<span id='postcolor'>

It seams to me you are backing out of your eairlier statements. Intelligence doesnt lay in a animals body. It doesnt lay in an animals heart, its liver, its kidnee, or in your case, its arse.

Intelligence is in its head, the ability to solve problem (yes, also sofisticated ones), and the abilitry to interact with other animals socially.

I dont know why you are backing out of your earlier statements and "trying to prove your theory" with a statement i made earlier, to make me look like an arse who doesnt give a shit about animals.

I care about animals, but most of them is just food for me. I dont like them being mistreated, that is why I eat eco-meat, eco-eggs and drink eco-milk. Which means that the animals have a larger area to walk on, they can walk outside. Mammals sometimes walk the entire year on a field here in Denmark. The chickens can walk outside etc.

But still, they are just food for me. Every time I eat an egg, I dont stop eating and start thinking... "My gosh, this is an abortion im eating, this is a personality, this egg... its a chicken! Im a murderer and im eating of a dead corpse". No..... I start thinking... "Uhm.... this egg could have used a little more..."

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 21 2002,04:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Breeding animals for our own uses is polluting the world! There are millions of cows in countries around the world, and all those cows produce metahne, which goes up and BURNS the ozone layer up! So eating cows is going to BURN the world! Be afraid, be very afraid.

Ok, animals are not as advanced as us, they cant do funky things like make computers(they dont have hands!(but animals have a full set of nerves and emotions, and feel and react to pain every bit as a human would. If you mian a human, it feels it, you maim an animal, same thing. We only chose to maim animals because we couldnt bare to hurt our own species, we find a species, say its dumb and is below us and procede to do all the nasty thing we dont want to do to humans.

When the Animals revolt and take over the world, only Aculand and myself from these forums shall be spared! All of yous shall be cast into cages and slaughtered to feed the animals. Think of it, imagine yourself been put on a conveyor belt, been taken down a line, and then been killed with a bolt to the head. Then you are cut open, gutted, all your best meat is cut up by cows with big knives, then you are put into little packages and sent all over the country to be eaten by families of ship for dinner! Kinda a funny idea, would be a cool movie, when Aniamls revolt!<span id='postcolor'>

So do plants, will they take over the world as well?

[CosmicCastaway 0]

Holy crap! I go away, and when I come back the topic is 17 pages long. Guess that'll teach me to go to bed.

[Badgerboy 0]

If a cow manages to capture me, slay me, and then uses me to feed its herd, than fair enough.

Until that happens, I will continue to dine on bovine....

Mmmmmm

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ Aug. 21 2002,00:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They have everything it takes to be alive. They are no more dead than we are. They are no less alive than we are. Many of them are less evolved than us, few are more evolved than us. According to science, a human invention, we are no more worthy of respect than they are. I hope someday you'll get this.<span id='postcolor'>

So let me get this straight...if a friend or relative of yours was dying, and some mad scientist had found a way to funnel life essence from animals to humans...and they asked you for permission to drain the life of a cow to save the life of your friend/relative, you would say "no, you can't do that, both of their lives are equal"?

If your answer is yes, you might want to take a good look at yourself...and I don't mean that as an insult.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Aug. 21 2002,08:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Aug. 20 2002,14:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I accept the necessity of animal testing. But then again let them have a real life as well. Damn, allways in those sterile environments, fully ignored, fully isolated and then dying. Wow, great!  

Furtermore I dont think that cloning or viral research for military purposes has any use! None at all!

Often we have to deal with real animal-experiments than animal-testing. Often experiments are made without the realy knowing what aim the whole thing has.<span id='postcolor'>

What do you mean with a "real life"? You're judging the conditions of the lab animals with human terms. The mice, for example, in their lab boxes have toilet paper to play with and to hide in. They have food to eat and water to drink. For a mouse, this is what it wants to do. It definitely does not want to interact with any big scary humans or fight for territory with other mice. They're not free, but they have a very cozy environment from a mouse's point of view.

Cloning has many useful applications aside from reproduction. Cloning of organs for example is a very nice example of this. If you drink your liver to oblivion, they could just clone you a new one. Cloning of stem cells is also a very promising application, which could cure countless ailments. This is why cloning research should not be banned.

Experiments or tests with animals are never done without knowing what the aim of the whole thing is. Before doing anything, you have to apply for a permit, in which you have to present a research plan among other things. The panel which reviews the applications has not only scientist members, but philosophers as well among others. This crap about no aims in research is just an animal activist lie.<span id='postcolor'>

This is pure assumption. You assume that animals (in contrast to humans) prefer the "golden cage" in contrast to their natural life-environment.

That cloning has many useful purposes is absolutely right. But I think we are crossing one of the last moral bridges here. Cloning in my eyes is going too far. And while people are still preparing weapons of massdestruction and over 50% of our planet live below the povertyline I think we are not prepared nor moraly capable yet to do this step. Cloning means playing with life, you are actually experimenting with tools of life. I think that is pervert!

The problem is that again some very capitalistic countries pressure forward (cause they got little moral values only good customers do count) and force all others to follow in order not to fall behind in a very lucrative and prgressive business idea. You know like me that the official kidney cloning is not the last step. I dont even want to know what is happening behind closed doors of some of the worlds national labs. Just accept that 70% of the people on this planet have no moral barrier and are willing to ignore all and everything to reach certain goals. The atomic bomb is a good example. How the hell can a scientist develop a weapon of mass-destruction without remources (please dont give me that "it ended the war". Whether yes or no, this no scientists could have forseen)

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Aug. 21 2002,08:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ Aug. 20 2002,15:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How about using terrorists and murderers for medical tests instead of animals?

1: The cuddly little beasts gets to live.

2: The nasty terrorists gets to die.

3: Testing on humans is much more effective than testing on animals.<span id='postcolor'>

First of all, there aren't enough terrorists for all the experiments. Secondly, I at least would have a problem injecting humans with experimental substances, when I already feel quite awful doing it to mice.<span id='postcolor'>

besides, if it's experimental substances, it might give them super-powers, and the last thing we need is more super-powered terrorists!

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Espectro @ Aug. 21 2002,00:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It seams to me you are backing out of your eairlier statements. Intelligence doesnt lay in a animals body. It doesnt lay in an animals heart, its liver, its kidnee, or in your case, its arse.

Intelligence is in its head, the ability to solve problem (yes, also sofisticated ones), and the abilitry to interact with other animals socially.

I dont know why you are backing out of your earlier statements and "trying to prove your theory" with a statement i made earlier, to make me look like an arse who doesnt give a shit about animals.

I care about animals, but most of them is just food for me. I dont like them being mistreated, that is why I eat eco-meat, eco-eggs and drink eco-milk. Which means that the animals have a larger area to walk on, they can walk outside. Mammals sometimes walk the entire year on a field here in Denmark. The chickens can walk outside etc.

But still, they are just food for me. Every time I eat an egg, I dont stop eating and start thinking... "My gosh, this is an abortion im eating, this is a personality, this egg... its a chicken! Im a murderer and im eating of a dead corpse". No..... I start thinking... "Uhm.... this egg could have used a little more..."<span id='postcolor'>

I cannot believe you......honestly. You're not a hypocrite because you eat "eco" eggs, "eco" meat, and drink "eco" milk. They're still fucking eggs, espectro. Its still fucking meat. And yes, its still milk as well. Believe it or not, but youre no saint for consuming the same thing with a different label.

I dont know what free range means in denmark, but i seriously doubt it differs from the states. Free range means nothing more to the meat industry than "Not being in a cage". More specifically, it means that chickens, for example, are out in an open hanger thats so crowded it barely gives them a foot of room to move around in, and is set up so there are about 100 hens for every rooster. Its objective is nothing more than mass production.

I wouldnt believe you cared about animals for one second. Sure, you care about the 10% of them that are fun to play with, but the majority might as well stick their heads between their knees and kiss their asses goodbye, so you to eat just the parts that taste good and throw the rest in the trash.

As far as where animals intelligence comes from, i never said it was in any organ other than their brain (with the exception of the ones that dont have one, some insects, you, etc). I was merely trying to point out to you that, due to the striking resemblence of their biological structure compared to ours, it just might prove logical to accept the fact that they are no different than us, and hence, deserve respct at the very least.

If youre going to include these things in your diet, do yourself a favor, stop acting like an imbecile, and research these things. I eat vegan because its a lifestyle i can take responsibility for. For the life of me, i could never hurt anything that didnt wrong me personally, or intentionally. So i dont.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Well, thats your lifestyle. My lifestyle is to eat what I want, when I want. And i happend to like meat. And being the vegetarian that you are, for the reason you are, makes you a passive hippy, which tries to do a different not eating meat. Well, newsflash, its not gonna help. If you feal so much for the animals around the world, why dont you do something instead of sitting infront of your computer trying to broadcast your sick oppinions to a bunch idiots that you call us?

No, I might not be a saint for eating eggs and drinking milk, but if i become evil of this, you might want to seek the nearest hospital and talk to a doctor about it. You would be surprised how many "evil people, children etc." is walking about.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I cannot believe you......honestly. You're not a hypocrite because you eat "eco" eggs, "eco" meat, and drink "eco" milk. They're still fucking eggs, espectro. Its still fucking meat. And yes, its still milk as well. Believe it or not, but youre no saint for consuming the same thing with a different label.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, i thought you were talking about a "no tested on animals label" thing earlier? Well, as I said a 20 lines above, it wont do differently. Do you really think the packaging of your deoderant havent been tested on animals? Do you think the plastic in your car havent been tested on animals?

Being a vegetarian have nothing in common that being an animal lover. You arent gonna save any, and believe it or not, many of the animals that is mainly produced for the sole purpose of meat have a good and healthy life.

It seams to me you fail to understand the few basics of life. We are hear to eat, and believe it or not, if you look in your mirror you see your teath and...whoo, they were made for eating meat... unbelieveable ey? Its a part of nature, a part of the big eco-system that we call Earth. Humans is the one and superior animal on this planet, it is us that rule it, and that is why we have to take responsibility. If we were a bunch of Aculauds here, Earth would dispair, since development would come to a halt, and noone would take responisibily to help other animals, develop medicine to humans and to animals. Animals, come, animals goes. Its a part of evolution. get used to it. We might not be here in 20000 years, but who cares? Lets be who we are, who we were born to be. The savoir of the planet, not any other animal that wont take responsibility for our actions. After all, we cant go against nature in the end.

When did you last see a vegetarian aligator?