Animal testing

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ Aug. 20 2002,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Because of humans, but at least we're trying to put right what we did before.<span id='postcolor'>

You can't turn back the clock, we can make attempts to repair the damage that was done, but environmental changes are remarkably stubborn to reverse.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For any species, getting domesticated by man is the best insurance of success as a species and assured survival.<span id='postcolor'>

Domestication is not an insurance policy for a species. Domestication, and all it entails can alter (over time) animals in such a way that they become hardly recognisable as the original species. OK so it's still 'A' species, but it's not the one originally brought in for domestication.

[CosmicCastaway 0]

Whoops, well thats that conversation killed then.

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Aug. 20 2002,12:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ Aug. 20 2002,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Because of humans, but at least we're trying to put right what we did before.<span id='postcolor'>

You can't turn back the clock, we can make attempts to repair the damage that was done, but environmental changes are remarkably stubborn to reverse.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For any species, getting domesticated by man is the best insurance of success as a species and assured survival.<span id='postcolor'>

Domestication is not an insurance policy for a species. Domestication, and all it entails can alter (over time) animals in such a way that they become hardly recognisable as the original species. OK so it's still 'A' species, but it's not the one originally brought in for domestication.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, you can't turn back time and you can't affect the past, so how about people stop whining about what everyone's done in the past

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ Aug. 20 2002,13:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah, you can't turn back time and you can't affect the past, so how about people stop whining about what everyone's done in the past<span id='postcolor'>

Because it affects people in the present.

Here's a wee quote I read over at Salon.com a while back:

...by the time the earth manifests the full effects of this generation's environmental recklessness, we'll all be on death's doorstep, and the grandkids will be left holding the bag.

We cant change what was done in the past, but we have to deal with it now.

[Major Fubar 0]

How did eating meat suddenly become the downfall of planet earth?

[Longinius 1]

Havent you seen "Day of the dead"??!!! Eating meat will destroy us all ;P

[CosmicCastaway 0]

I wasn't talking about eating meat, it was just a general discussion on animal intelligence / environmental type stuff. Although I did hear a rumour that Killer Tomatoes were on the loose a while back. Let's hope that never happens again. Bloody vegetables.

[Major Fubar 0]

Just look at what you veggies are missing out on. If you're mouth doesn't water, you're not alive!  

--------------

Vegetarians coming to dinner? Simply serve them a nice bit of steak or veal. Since they're  always going on about how tofu, Quorn, meat substitute etc. tastes exactly like the real  thing, they won't know the difference.

Invited by vegetarians for dinner? Point out that since you'd no doubt be made aware of their special dietary requirements, tell them about yours, and ask for a nice steak.

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Aug. 20 2002,13:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ Aug. 20 2002,13:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah, you can't turn back time and you can't affect the past, so how about people stop whining about what everyone's done in the past<span id='postcolor'>

Because it affects people in the present.

Here's a wee quote I read over at Salon.com a while back:

...by the time the earth manifests the full effects of this generation's environmental recklessness, we'll all be on death's doorstep, and the grandkids will be left holding the bag.

We cant change what was done in the past, but we have to deal with it now.<span id='postcolor'>

and...we...are, like i said

[Col. Kurtz 0]

I do like meat, but as I said earlier I do not belive that I will start eating meat until the corporations 'methods' change for slaughtering and rearing animals. And I will stree again Im not some hippie with a big peace symbol smoking dope and snorting LSD. I understand that meat is a major part of our diet, as it is for most animals. I just dont think i should say 'oh well, I dont like animals been treated cruely, but I really like meat so Ill do nothing about it and continue to put money in the pockets of the corporations'(Im only 13 so it wouldnt be my money......). And Avon, you said something about been distressed about having to go kill your own meat, I came up with a solution to make it easier and efficient. Since your in Israel, Im sure there a no shortage of military equiptment. Just take a M113 with a .50 mounted on it, look for some cattle that Im sure just roam around your cities like sheep do in New Zealand, and completely chew it to pieces with the heavy machine gun. this will kill it, skin it, gut it, and chop it up into little pieces, to make sure, maybe run it over a few times The just go, big up a few dollops of meat, then take home. Get a frying pan, put in a little oil, then add in the meat. Cook to your liking then serve with spices Another Kurtz Kooking Klass(you better not apprevaite that or it becomes KKK and then youll all think Im a rascist which Im not and then Ill get booted, and theres no point in getting booted for something I didnt do......). So, cooking is easier than you thought! The evn quicker way involes one canister of Napalm, and a field of cow/sheep. Soon you have a meal for a town already cooked!

[DarkLight 0]

Here's my opinion i posted it in the Al Qaeda topic.

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ Aug. 20 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and...we...are, like i said<span id='postcolor'>

But we're not, nothing's really changed. We tend to ignore these issues and brush them off as, to quote, "hippy pacifists being selfish".

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 20 2002,08:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I fully support animal testing. I know that it is sad to see that cute little cat get stuffed with drugs or whatever, but realise that animals are not human. It is much better to have safe medicines for human use then to save the lives of cute animals.<span id='postcolor'>

I accept the necessity of animal testing. But then again let them have a real life as well. Damn, allways in those sterile environments, fully ignored, fully isolated and then dying. Wow, great!  

Furtermore I dont think that cloning or viral research for military purposes has any use! None at all!

Often we have to deal with real animal-experiments than animal-testing. Often experiments are made without the realy knowing what aim the whole thing has.

On the other way, you should see it in comparison to other animal cruelties. And I think that animal testing is not as bad as other agriculutural sins.

Hey Mayor Fubar The pictures must be from the 80ies! This is the most undelicious meat-platter I have seen for years. Looks like a trucker-meal!

[VXR 9]

i also agree testing on animals but then not for Bio weapons or something but for carcer or something things that are good for people not that killing gasses

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Better them than me.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Aug. 20 2002,14:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Better them than me.<span id='postcolor'>

I put this into the back of your shirt!

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Aug. 19 2002,15:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Better them than me.<span id='postcolor'>

This is exactly because our world is so stupid, because everyone thinks like that...

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Aug. 20 2002,14:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ Aug. 20 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and...we...are, like i said<span id='postcolor'>

But we're not, nothing's really changed. We tend to ignore these issues and brush them off as, to quote, "hippy pacifists being selfish".<span id='postcolor'>

All i ever hear the non-depressed negative hippies talk about is how they go to africa every year to help zebras live or whatever, we're protecting endangered species and that, and in hundreds and hundreds of ways we're promoting biodiversity pretty much everywhere. I mean, i think the world is doing alot. I understand that the majority of hippies will only stop calling everyone in the world satan when everyone lives in mudhuts with Hippo's and using vegetarian crayons to color in our dung/wood walls, but i think we're doing a good job, watching all these documentires where the hippies all get together and talk about how they connected with a alligator or something that they got to shag off with another. We're also trying to prevent the Rainforests getting chopped down, exploring new, non-polluting means or transport, power and manufacturing....

[CosmicCastaway 0]

We are having to DO a lot, because we have already DONE a lot. Cleaning up our own messes is no reason to feel proud of ourselves.

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Aug. 20 2002,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We are having to DO a lot, because we have already DONE a lot. Cleaning up our own messes is no reason to feel proud of ourselves.<span id='postcolor'>

No its nothing to be proud of - but at least we are doing it. That was my point to try and stop all the whinging.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Its how the food change works... How would you like to explain a crokodile that eating meat is a big NO-NO?

For crocodiles, we are nothing else than a feared monster which, however tastes good. For a Zebra, the crocodile is a big huge monster that wants to eat it.

A chicken for us, is a small tasty animal that we like to eat.

For chickens, us humans are its feed suplier until the day we eat it. It is as simple as that. Eat or dont, but im not gonna be a freaking vegeterian.

Humans are both meat eating and plant eating, and that is what we are build for, our brain and instincs are build for it, our stomach is built for it and our teath are built for it.

Eating animals that have been behind bars all its life is nothing worse than going hunting shooting down a deer.

Testing drugs on animals is a crappy thing, but it is nessesary.

Oh, and to whoever said that all animals evolve, yes they do. But that is caused nature. Humans evolve psysically and mentally many times faster than any other animal.

We have many more fealings than any other animal, we are not only using our instincts to do what we do. We are the only animal that have been able to change our instincs. THAT is intelligence.

Yet alone being able to create various ways of communication, not only speach, but also using movements.

Our intelligence lays on, that instead of using monkeys grunt-sounds to communicate 20 different cmmands, we have millions of ways of expressing ourselves. Instead of using a stick to get ants out of the trees, we use bulldozers to conqiuer minerals, vitamins, money.

We are many times more suffisticated than any animal on the planet of earth.

And yes... I might be a selfish bastard, but I do feal more worth than an ant!

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ Aug. 20 2002,15:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Aug. 20 2002,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We are having to DO a lot, because we have already DONE a lot. Cleaning up our own messes is no reason to feel proud of ourselves.<span id='postcolor'>

No its nothing to be proud of - but at least we are doing it. That was my point to try and stop all the whinging.<span id='postcolor'>

Someone has to whinge, otherwise it'd never get done.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

There's probably someone here almost as wise as me, who have already mentioned this option, but I couldn't be bothered to check...

How about using terrorists and murderers for medical tests instead of animals?

1: The cuddly little beasts gets to live.

2: The nasty terrorists gets to die.

3: Testing on humans is much more effective than testing on animals.

It's a no-brainer, really.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

hey Gimbal! You lay off my idea! i came up with that, check the 2 kidnapped girls found dead thread(now locked) and you shall see I mentioned it! because that why they are doing something useful for us, and can partialy repay their crimes by trying out new experimental drugs!

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Espectro @ Aug. 20 2002,15:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yet alone being able to create various ways of communication, not only speach, but also using movements.

Our intelligence lays on, that instead of using monkeys grunt-sounds to communicate 20 different cmmands, we have millions of ways of expressing ourselves. Instead of using a stick to get ants out of the trees, we use bulldozers to conqiuer minerals, vitamins, money.

We are many times more suffisticated than any animal on the planet of earth.

And yes... I might be a selfish bastard, but I do feal more worth than an ant!<span id='postcolor'>

Hate to drag this up, but all animals use a combination of ways to communicate. Vocal, visual, aural, many many ways. If you could see me, I would be able to communicate to you simply from my facial expression, how I was feeling. Same goes for animals. For example, horses express themselves using their ears a great deal. Just because they can't speak (as we would understand it) doesnt make them of lesser worth.

I agree with you on this point though: Instead of using a stick to get ants out of the trees, we use bulldozers to conqiuer minerals, vitamins, money.

We do tend to express ourselves through destruction quite a lot...