So Arma 3 is out now, does it set the standard for future releases in the series?

[pd3 25]

ehm, did you read latest report in With Marek Spanel? He clearly said, they gonna support the game, for at least 2 years. If thats not an answer for you. And by the way, if you said, you ain't going to buy arma 3 a nyway, why bother then?

Oh man, your posts.

You're killing me.

BI supported ARMA 2 at least that long.

But what comes next?

That's my question.

All other military FPS games are using outdated ballistics/weapon handling paradigm that is now 16 years old, because advancement would throw off their user base. Instead of technologically improving.

I want to know if a similar fate will meet my favorite series.

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------

ehm, did you read latest report in With Marek Spanel? He clearly said, they gonna support the game, for at least 2 years. If thats not an answer for you. And by the way, 8 if you said, you ain't going to buy arma 3 anyway, why bother then?

---------- Post added at 21:23 ---------- Previous post was at 21:19 ----------

depends, on what is untouchable for you personally. If we talk about graphics, physix, animations, infanatery close combat, no mods, can bring arma 2 on arma 3 level, for example.

You're right. It would have to be something like the other mainstream military FPS games.

---------- Post added at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Yeah, I'm waiting for them to port over all the A2 assets. All I really want out of A3 is the new infantry movement, the new lighting, and maybe the UAVs. Was watching some YouTube videos of the UAV's in action the other day and was pretty impressed. Just wish the graphics were better. As for them catering to the DayZ and Wasteland crowds foremost, you really can't blame them for wanting to make some money. We old A2 crowd, just like DCS flyboys, are pretty niche. I imagine DCS is going to cave into its investors one day too. I was shocked that I saw a mod saying Wags had actually been in talks with Outerra. VERY INTERESTING! You can't survive on the business of 200 odd people alone.

@PD3 - Wait for ACE and the many mods that are coming man. Give it some time. I do hope ACE is going to make a comeback.

So sad.

I don't tink mods can fix weapon handling, turn speed.

Which is what really annihilates the game for me.

[sektor 2]

I consider Arma 3 an unfinished product that was released early to get sales before BF4 gets released and christmas season starts. I hope that future Releases are more complete

This just may be true.

About dumbing down the game, they could make an ingame option for difficulty/complexity, i think every person in this thread would go for more difficult/realistic/complex setting (ACE anyone?).

And if i was in ACE team, i would go screw you BI guys, we showed you how it can be done, you don't care about it. I hope those guys go surfing/snowboarding/dancing or whatever rather than sit at home tweaking sheets of code.

Edited September 16, 2013 by sektor

[NeuroFunker 11]

well, then just wait for ACE 3. Arma 3 wont dissapear from market any time, so you have all time in the world, to buy it if there is something out there, which will make you want to play it.

[mistyronin 1181]

I consider Arma 3 an unfinished product that was released early to get sales before BF4 gets released and christmas season starts.

I don't really believe that Arma 3 and BF compete for the same market target. It was released now because they couldn't delay it more, and it lacks some content due to the incidents during its development. But it's gonna be added in the following months ( mainly the campaign ).

[MissionCreep 12]

This is like playing a deathmatch shooter. What "is" realistic about it at all? Period.

Arma 3 first and foremost an FPS. I have no desire to do a mission where I have to relocate traumatized flood victims while displaying the appropriate amount of cultural sensitivity. As you said, whatever you don't have, will likely be modded by the most loyal adherents of whatever genre is out there, whether its using farm animals as target practice or modding Star Trek. Arma is, whatever you are willing to make of it.

[NeuroFunker 11]

This just may be true.

About dumbing down the game, they could make an ingame option for difficulty/complexity, i think every person in this thread would go for more difficult/realistic/complex setting (ACE anyone?).

well tbh, from all arma 2 players, how many do play or even know about ACE? I barely think, that atleast 10% knows about ACE. So why BIS should bother about 10% hardcore realism fans, if 90% won't like it?

[steele6 0]

guys,

this thread is dissapointing.

I seriously don't even care about the lack of content or bugs on release, or performance issues, these are things that can be remedied by the community and improvements in technology....

you started out well, we all agree here.

The fundamental gameplay changes, specifically relating to weapon handling are what fill me with the most dread.

While I understand some more of the nooby players had a real hard time with some of the "stiffness" associated with ARMA 2, and even I didn't find it to be ideal, this is the diametric and hyperbolic opposite.

This is like playing a deathmatch shooter. What "is" realistic about it at all? Period.

The entire point behind the series was that you simply couldn't via player dexterity, maneuver yourself out of poorly planned situations. Strategic thought was an absolute must where human limitations simulated in game left off.

I'm not seeing any of that now, or considerably less than there should be.

Lack of inertial simulation in weapon handling is a massive disappointment, it seriously was the next logical step. Elimination of dead zone, by all accounts, it plays like unreal or another similar game of the genre sans jumping.

There is very little incentive to be tactically skillful in the way that it was originally meant to be done in the series. It's a lot of twitchy garbage now, and when you can twitch your way out of bad situations, there's not much incentive to have to think about what you're doing to the same degree.

you later on complain that that the aiming deadzone was better, arma 2 finicky, difficult and awkward control scheme/animations are somewhat realistic

honestly, the animations in this game are realistic, (the stances make you so more flexible and CQB/cover firing much better)

soldiers also use tactical walking, so that is realistic, people in real life move alot more fluidly in life than compared to arma 2.

you can be flanked, its not like quake/COD where you can jump, rocket jump etc, here if you are flanked, sniped, you still die 1 shot, and taking cover using the stances is realistic.

please play the game before you reserve judgement, it is utterly the best arma game I have ever played

[pd3 25]

This just may be true.

About dumbing down the game, they could make an ingame option for difficulty/complexity, i think every person in this thread would go for more difficult/realistic/complex setting (ACE anyone?).

I heard that implementing inertia to weapons was attempted, but the engine did a crap job as I heard it.

So I guess, where does that leave us in the future?

If that's too much to expect in the future, I'd say the series will progressively die off anyhow if any enterprising competition comes along.

If you don't innovate, you have to shill harder and harder to an increasingly less sophisticated audience, and competition will do just enough to eat some of their lunch.

Mediocrity all around.

[sektor 2]

well tbh, from all arma 2 players, how many do play or even know about ACE? I barely think, that atleast 10% knows about ACE. So why BIS should bother about 10% hardcore realism fans, if 90% won't like it?

And i think at least 80% of Arma2 players know and use ACE. So why BIS doesn't take care about the vast majority of their players?

[pd3 25]

Arma 3 first and foremost an FPS. I have no desire to do a mission where I have to relocate traumatized flood victims while displaying the appropriate amount of cultural sensitivity. As you said, whatever you don't have, will likely be modded by the most loyal adherents of whatever genre is out there, whether its using farm animals as target practice or modding Star Trek. Arma is, whatever you are willing to make of it.

Intentionally missing the point.

Good job.

[Maio 293]

If some consider the movement in A3 to be "swift", I recommend investing in a mouse with multiple dpi settings. I recently bought a new mouse and on the lowest dpi setting, trying a 180 turn is impossible, not to mention that I can now aim way more precise at long ranges.

[NeuroFunker 11]

And i think at least 80% of Arma2 players know and use ACE. So why BIS doesn't take care about the vast majority of their players?

Wanna bet? Lets open server browser count all servers, and filter all ACE servers, count and count players on both non ace and ace server. If that will be 80%, maybe you have a different game. Oh and not forget the arma 2 standalone/free servers. There are many as well.

---------- Post added at 21:45 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------

I heard that implementing inertia to weapons was attempted, but the engine did a crap job as I heard it.

So I guess, where does that leave us in the future?

If that's too much to expect in the future, I'd say the series will progressively die off anyhow if any enterprising competition comes along.

If you don't innovate, you have to shill harder and harder to an increasingly less sophisticated audience, and competition will do just enough to eat some of their lunch.

Mediocrity all around.

the future, the future, arma is not even out, you want to know everything about future? Just wait untill BIS anounces what dlc they gona make first?

[pd3 25]

guys,

this thread is dissapointing.

you started out well, we all agree here.

you later on complain that that the aiming deadzone was better, arma 2 finicky, difficult and awkward control scheme/animations are somewhat realistic

honestly, the animations in this game are realistic, (the stances make you so more flexible and CQB/cover firing much better)

soldiers also use tactical walking, so that is realistic, people in real life move alot more fluidly in life than compared to arma 2.

you can be flanked, its not like quake/COD where you can jump, rocket jump etc, here if you are flanked, sniped, you still die 1 shot, and taking cover using the stances is realistic.

please play the game before you reserve judgement, it is utterly the best arma game I have ever played

Again, I've already stated the foot movement was stiff, and could have been improved.

No limits on turning completely fucked it into FPS oblivion.

Again, barring a slow as crap PC, the weapon handling for A2 was more appropriate.

The only way to improve upon it would be to smooth it out, yet maintain a more realistic system to preserve human limitations on aiming speed vs accuracy.

Inertial modeling is literally the only logical way to go.

Unfortunately those two critical missteps kill it for me.

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

---------- Post added at 21:45 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------

[/color]

the future, the future, arma is not even out, you want to know everything about future? Just wait untill BIS anounces what dlc they gona make first?

DLC is not going to fix the apparent issues, I have raised.

[instagoat 133]

And i think at least 80% of Arma2 players know and use ACE. So why BIS doesn't take care about the vast majority of their players?

Quite possibly because these 80% are only about a third of the entirety of people who bought the game, and the rest stopped playing it because it was buggy as hell and generally not a well designed game, and rather just a massive soldier toybox with hurdles and hoops to make trying to enjoy it more difficult?

Also, just because you do not enjoy doing arithmetic in your head to sight in a mortar or stare at a black screen for ten minutes because you've been knocked unconscious does not mean you are "less sophisticated". COD and Baddulfield and Medal of Goner are not the only games played out there. The standards of useability are pretty much universal, and Arma was up until now one of the few titles not up to these standards. This has nothing to do with realism, this is simply bad design.

Arma used to be perceived first and foremost as a massive sandbox open to all kinds of gameplay. At some point everyone but the hardcore realism people left (likely because of the low quality of the post-resistance releases), and those often only stayed for lack of an alternative (hence the massive interest in OF:DR up until its release, and subsequent disappointment.). Arma 3 is sufficiently well put together to hold non military enthusiasts again, much like OFP did, I do hope, and make the community more diverse and expansive again.

So, in a sense, by choosing not to participate in your chosen avenue of Arma gameplay in this iteration, you are sabotaging the kind of gameplay you desire, because without the attention of their fans, people like those working on ACE and its predecessors will likely not have gotten where they are now either. While modders work chiefly for their own enjoyment, part of that enjoyment is the appreciation and feedback of the people who care about whatever they do. The core gameplay concept of Arma is unchanged, which again is why I do not entirely understand the excessive whining.

But, to each his own, I guess.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Again, I've already stated the foot movement was stiff, and could have been improved.

No limits on turning completely fucked it into FPS oblivion.

Again, barring a slow as crap PC, the weapon handling for A2 was more appropriate.

The only way to improve upon it would be to smooth it out, yet maintain a more realistic system to preserve human limitations on aiming speed vs accuracy.

Inertial modeling is literally the only logical way to go.

Unfortunately those two critical missteps kill it for me.

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

DLC is not going to fix the apparent issues, I have raised.

ok then, you wanna Marek Spanel, personally answer you in this thread, what gona happen to arma 3 in the future or what? I can't follow you here.

---------- Post added at 21:56 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

So, in a sense, by choosing not to participate in your chosen avenue of Arma gameplay in this iteration, you are sabotaging the kind of gameplay you desire, because without the attention of their fans, people like those working on ACE and its predecessors will likely not have gotten where they are now either. While modders work chiefly for their own enjoyment, part of that enjoyment is the appreciation and feedback of the people who care about whatever they do. The core gameplay concept of Arma is unchanged, which again is why I do not entirely understand the excessive whining.

But, to each his own, I guess.

exactly thats the point! If all the "hardcore" and "veteran" arma fans, will quit, and left arma 3 to the hands of newcomers and more casual people, the devs, the modders, everyone ofcourse, will concetrate on them, so making ACE or any realism mod for them, would be absolete.

[Opticalsnare 12]

Game was released too early.

Issues with the AI are still present not fixed since A1. Weapon damage and settings are really bad like up to 5 shots to kill an enemy soldier seriously?? and vehicle combat is pretty broken. On a side note you got a massive island which is great in detail, its a shame the game itself is borked..

[pd3 25]

Quite possibly because these 80% are only about a third of the entirety of people who bought the game, and the rest stopped playing it because it was buggy as hell and generally not a well designed game, and rather just a massive soldier toybox with hurdles and hoops to make trying to enjoy it more difficult?

Also, just because you do not enjoy doing arithmetic in your head to sight in a mortar or stare at a black screen for ten minutes because you've been knocked unconscious does not mean you are "less sophisticated". COD and Baddulfield and Medal of Goner are not the only games played out there. The standards of useability are pretty much universal, and Arma was up until now one of the few titles not up to these standards. This has nothing to do with realism, this is simply bad design.

Arma used to be perceived first and foremost as a massive sandbox open to all kinds of gameplay. At some point everyone but the hardcore realism people left (likely because of the low quality of the post-resistance releases), and those often only stayed for lack of an alternative (hence the massive interest in OF:DR up until its release, and subsequent disappointment.). Arma 3 is sufficiently well put together to hold non military enthusiasts again, much like OFP did, I do hope, and make the community more diverse and expansive again.

So, in a sense, by choosing not to participate in your chosen avenue of Arma gameplay in this iteration, you are sabotaging the kind of gameplay you desire, because without the attention of their fans, people like those working on ACE and its predecessors will likely not have gotten where they are now either. While modders work chiefly for their own enjoyment, part of that enjoyment is the appreciation and feedback of the people who care about whatever they do. The core gameplay concept of Arma is unchanged, which again is why I do not entirely understand the excessive whining.

But, to each his own, I guess.

I've never had any serious problems with bugs in A2, not to say they did not exist, however currently I have no problems with it.

Most people who weren't part of the core players early on left due to far more cosmetic reasons.

OFP was not a flashy game, it served a very specific niche from the onset.

Anyone buying OFP given the bullshit mainstream whine campaign that was prevalent during it's release was doing so out of curiosity, nothing more.

Don't shit on the people responsible for supporting the company that would never survived were it not for their loyalty. You benefit from it now.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Game was released too early.

Issues with the AI are still present not fixed since A1. Weapon damage and settings are really bad like up to 5 shots to kill an enemy soldier seriously?? and vehicle combat is pretty broken. On a side note you got a massive island which is great in detail, its a shame the game itself is borked..

if your talking about singleplayer,it has been discussed alot about 5 shots to kill thing. Make sure you play on veteran difficulty, so "extendend armor" gets disabled, or tun it off by yourself, in game dissiculty settings.

if you take multiplayer in account, most of servers are set to recruit difficulty, and guess what? Extended armor is enabled there by defailt.

---------- Post added at 22:02 ---------- Previous post was at 22:00 ----------

Don't shit on the people responsible for supporting the company that would never survived were it not for their loyalty. You benefit from it now.

and by saying to your favorite company "good bye", cause you aren't happy, how the things currently are, won't help either, don't you think?

Edited September 16, 2013 by NeuroFunker

[sektor 2]

Wanna bet? Lets open server browser count all servers, and filter all ACE servers, count and count players on both non ace and ace server. If that will be 80%, maybe you have a different game. Oh and not forget the arma 2 standalone/free servers. There are many as well.

If you filter servers, 90% would be DayZ + Wasteland. And most of the players that would use ACE are playing Arma3.

[NeuroFunker 11]

If you filter servers, 90% would be DayZ + Wasteland. And most of the players that would use ACE are playing Arma3.

you missed something there, devs filtered out dayz, out of default arma 2 co server browser. There are a lot of wasteland servers, which actualy could benefit from ACE a lot, don't you agree? And so far, ive not seen any ACE wasteland servers much.

I'm ACE player myself, and when i played arma 3 alpha for first time, i noticed, i were missing the ballistics from ace, like strong wind not affecting my bullets. But devs said, they would require a lot of work, to implement and synchronize this in arma 3.

I see no point in discussing this further, since ACE is something for only closed hardcore milsim people group. Devs looking at majority and not at smaller groups. And majority doen't play ACE.

[-ghost-tf 12]

well tbh, from all arma 2 players, how many do play or even know about ACE? I barely think, that atleast 10% knows about ACE. So why BIS should bother about 10% hardcore realism fans, if 90% won't like it?

You underestimate the amount of people that play ACE. Afterall its not about the amount of ACE servers you see in the serverlist, most of the ACE players are "serious", and therefore play with a community on a private server. And the amount of communitys that use ACE is quite big, I mean few of arma's biggest communitys (United Operations, Shack Tac and 15thMEU just to name a few) are playing with ACE and ACRE.

And if with that 90% you counted the wave of new dayz players then you should keep in mind that those will be jumping to DayZ stand alone, and would not be considered "arma fans".

[NeuroFunker 11]

You underestimate the amount of people that play ACE. Afterall its not about the amount of ACE servers you see in the serverlist, most of the ACE players are "serious", and therefore play with a community on a private server. And the amount of communitys that use ACE is quite big, I mean few of arma's biggest communitys (United Operations, Shack Tac and 15thMEU just to name a few) are playing with ACE and ACRE.

And if with that 90% you counted the wave of new dayz players then you should keep in mind that those will be jumping to DayZ stand alone, and would not be considered "arma fans".

what makes you think, i'm talking about dayz here? And yes, i know about thus hardcore tactical groups, there is also russian alternative group called "Tushino". But still, if we count all the hardcore groups together and compare them to regular arma 2 players, there never would be more then 10-20% of whole arma 2 community. So why again, BI devs, should make its next game for 10-20% people, when about 80% won't like that hardcore realism stuff anyway? I'm not talking about dumbing the game competly down, to make it another CoD or BF clone.

[pd3 25]

and by saying to your favorite company "good bye", cause you aren't happy, how the things currently are, won't help either, don't you think?

Well for the time being.

And if nothing improves in the future, I won't have much to be disappointed over at that point.

If complaining about the evident problems was a solution, the players who did care would have gotten some satisfaction.

Although, I strongly suspect coasting on this new demographic will eventually see them usurped by somebody with something to gain.

A3 is far less a niche game by design.

Nothing about it's most cosmetic appeal cannot be duplicated, not even the beloved editor. The easier it is to rip off the more market share they'll lose.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Well for the time being.

And if nothing improves in the future, I won't have much to be disappointed over at that point.

If complaining about the evident problems was a solution, the players who did care would have gotten some satisfaction.

Although, I strongly suspect coasting on this new demographic will eventually see them usurped by somebody with something to gain.

A3 is far less a niche game by design.

Nothing about it's most cosmetic appeal cannot be duplicated, not even the beloved editor. The easier it is to rip off the more market share they'll lose.

well if you think so - go on.

[chortles 263]

Last I checked, ShackTac uses what they like and ACE is merely a base.

Speaking of which, ACE3 is already confirmed by NouberNou, but you'll have to check with him for any details because I'm not aware of any other ACE devs who speak in public.

exactly thats the point! If all the "hardcore" and "veteran" arma fans, will quit, and left arma 3 to the hands of newcomers and more casual people, the devs, the modders, everyone ofcourse, will concetrate on them, so making ACE or any realism mod for them, would be absolete.

Sounds to me like the reason for the arguments over who's a "true" Arma player is because narrowing it down is the only way for "the milsim fans" to be a demographic majority...

Edit: As far as OP's question is concerned: Yes, I do really hope so!

Everything about this I am in such perfect agreement with that "+1" feels too lowly a way to signal my agreement.