"Opening up Arma 3 to paid user-made content" - How?

[meshcarver 12]

We could really do with this clarifying completely.

Is there any chance a BI rep could post on here to explain exactly their thoughts/plans on this please?

[grillob3 11]

We could really do with this clarifying completely.

Is there any chance a BI rep could post on here to explain exactly their thoughts/plans on this please?

Yes please. Would be nice!

[gammadust 12]

Gnat;2503832']Yep' date=' agree.

I say no.

Biggest concern (among many) is that the Addon makers community(s) will basically implode, because those people who understand the BIS technology and make mods will cease to support the community, as it becomes a competitive environment.

Commercial imperatives take over :([/quote']

I have to agree that it is not hard to imagine such competitiveness leading there. But i think some here are letting that concern cloud the alternatives of how "paid user-made content" may materialise in practice. Remember:

I want to push this effort in two distinct ways' date=' and I consider these as a priority for next year. We are going to announce [b']more specific details in the coming months[/b].

Right now we don't know and we can't know. I started this thread not so much to speculate what Bohemia will effectively bring to the table, such discussion would be pointless with so few information. The stated purpose of the thread is more to raise the concerns (i have my own and have put them up in the OP) that we as a community may have, since this, imo, is the best way for Bohemia to take a decision connected with the community, who knows even, mold the goal and its materialization in a different direction altogether. (maybe i can be accused of jumping the gun a bit early on those quotes, but the discussion was already taking place in a scattered way, the idea is definitely impacting, we might as well unite the opinions in an easy to access place to Bohemia)

Gnat;2503832']

A little concerned OP doesn't like paying for BIS DLC' date=' but suggests non-BIS Addon makers be allowed to start charging. Huh?

[/quote']

This is misreading what i said:

As a player who used Lite versions of DLCs and waited for Steam deals before buying all Arma 2 DLCs, I was pretty content to not have my wallet forced, all but for increased eye candy, and be allowed to join certain popular servers.

Let me remove your concern there. As a consumer i always drive for the BEST deal, as a player with limited resources to allocate for entertainment, buying those mentioned DLCs as Steam deals was just opportunity. I usually like what i pay for, and those specifically were deals i liked very much.

Regarding the second part, i clearly separated my suggestion from the topics i found worthy of discussion (list has grown). No where did i ever suggest for modders to start charging, not that i would find it an outrage at all, but exacly because i also find that as descharacterizing of this community, such an idea would definitely encounter founded opposition. How is it that a modder participating in a contest would mean him charging players for his mods?

But that is my suggestion, what i would like this thread to produce would be multiple suggestions on making the idea "Opening up Arma 3 to paid user-made content" not only possible but also welcomed by the community at large, sufficiently discussed to account for all reasonable concerns.

We could really do with this clarifying completely.

Is there any chance a BI rep could post on here to explain exactly their thoughts/plans on this please?

It might be too early to expect that (Marek mentions months), i think the idea is still in the drawing board for there being definite answers on the part of BIS, let them stick to their schedule for this.

Edited September 15, 2013 by gammadust

[heruon 1]

Doesn't High Command originate from a mod? Maybe it's a question of including good usermade features in DLC's. BIS could buy a mod, modify it and turn it into their own as a basic feature of the game. But ofcourse I can see the clash when a mod suddenly turns into something you'd have to pay for, especially if the mod becomes unavailable. I honestly don't mind, but I sure can see if others do.

edit - mixed up Warfare with High command

Edited September 15, 2013 by Heruon

[EuroSlave 1]

paid user content BAHAHHAHAHAH

i'm not paying jack shit... more money to fix a broken ass game.

Something to be said about throwing good money after bad.

Most mods i've played haven't been worth the money anyway. The ones that have should have been part of the game.

Even the official DLC wasn't worth the money tbh

[suprememodder 11]

sage words^^

[NeMeSiS 11]

There is no harm in trying out a donation system for a while and see how that works out. Actually, i cant be bothered to check the rules right now but i cant imagine that we are currently not allowed to have donation links in our signatures already.

[BL1P 35]

Copy paste scripts from others

rename a mission and edit 1 line

how many ways can this be abused ?

[[evo] dan 79]

Copy paste scripts from others

rename a mission and edit 1 line

how many ways can this be abused ?

Especially as this happens already, now imagine if you charged for it?

[Ezcoo 47]

Thumb up for paid user made content from here. I believe that it will result in boost in mod production times and quality, when talented modders and mission creators could dedicate more of their time to content production. In addition, I believe that it would attract also advanced, even professional level modders out there. It could be interesting chance for them to eg. make their portfolio thicker in order to prepare for job interviews and professional positions and get paid a little while doing that, that I believe to be enough to get them motivated enough to work on the game. It could also be an effective way for Bohemia to attract and find potential developer applicants.

The actual funding / payment method has to be chosen carefully to avoid major issues naturally. I also believe strongly in pre-filtering the content applicants to prevent conflicts in IP rights (just imagine the scale of shitstorm if it was found that someone would have used artwork, scripts, algorithms etc. of others in his/her paid content...)

[KEVINMGXP 20]

Is there any chance a BI rep could post on here to explain exactly their thoughts/plans on this please?

It is clearly stated that official info will be released about this later on, however If you read correctly then I have to think it will be more in the line what Kerc Kasha said.

This thread is a massive misinterpretation - all that line was about was that BI would ask a mod maker if they would want to make a paid-dlc out of their work, this isn't the first time this has happened. The czech DLC for arma 2 was made mostly by a mod team.

This isn't BI allowing people to sell their mods - it's simply picking up content and making it official content, not something the mod maker themselves decides to do (well other than accepting BI's offer)

Now personally I am not sure how this will evolve, I also purchased every part of Arma2 including the czech dlc and although the last DLC had a lot of potential the campaign and certain content are not working properly. I am not one that likes to complain doh, but just saying, out of everything I have from bohemia interactive they kept supporting their releases but not the czech dlc's, looking at the czech dlc I am not sure of this.

I mean if they want to push this trough I hope that they will take some serious concerns to the supporting part after release of that particular content, if the content released has some errors who is going to address it if the author does not follow up on it? Besides that I am also curious how this will turn out towards the larger part of the community?

I will quote the same biggest concern I have on that part ...

Gnat;2503832']Biggest concern (among many) is that the Addon makers community(s) will basically implode' date=' because those people who understand the BIS technology and make mods will cease to support the community, as it becomes a competitive environment.[/quote']

I am not saying NO, firstly because we do not have all the info. Secondly "and most likely the most important part" I nor anyone else will have a direct saying into this anyway, I will keep an open mind towards it, I only can hope that this will not backfire towards the community, I also hope they will take some consideration from the community before they decide but I do not get my hopes up to hard on that part. In the end this is a business and they need to keep it running ...

Gnat;2503832']Commercial imperatives take over :(

This concerns me even a bit more tbh ...

best of regards

[Wiki 1558]

This thread is a massive misinterpretation - all that line was about was that BI would ask a mod maker if they would want to make a paid-dlc out of their work, this isn't the first time this has happened. The czech DLC for arma 2 was made mostly by a mod team.

This isn't BI allowing people to sell their mods - it's simply picking up content and making it official content, not something the mod maker themselves decides to do (well other than accepting BI's offer)

Yeah, I see more something like that.

If I correctly remember, it already happened on ArmA 2 - or may have: BIS asked OFrP team whether they were ok (or not) to see their mod be an official DLC "BIS released" - kind of agreement between OFrP and BIS.

However, OFrP refused.

[EvEnLeaSe44 0]

I actually hope this does not happen. The community is already separated by mods, but to separate it by PAID mods would be outrageous.

Want to get paid doing something you like? Get a job doing it or add a donate button on your mod page, don't punish your fans.

I quote my self and stand by what I said. This ^ should be the end of discussion of user made paid mods.

[[aps]gnat 28]

If I correctly remember, it already happened on ArmA 2 - or may have: BIS asked OFrP team whether they were ok (or not) to see their mod be an official DLC "BIS released" - kind of agreement between OFrP and BIS.

However, OFrP refused.

Not sure I believe it, but that aside, BI would have to be SUPER SUPER sure that no content of a user made mod breached copyright etc etc, so they don't end up in court over some supposed exclusive DLC.

On a big mod pack trying to audit and verify that could be harder and riskier than making the mod themself.

Simply too risky in my book.

Example: I make addons, but I couldn't swear on a bible that someone's copyright hadn't been breached ..... Just Not sure.

[spamurai 3]

So let me get this straight...

ArmA 3 is now a $60 game, with no Singleplayer campaign, very little content at all out side of some sample missions in fact, including MP... and now BIS suggests making it into a platform for others to sell me stuff?

I thought I was a "Supporter" of a Triple-A MilSim game... not an Indy-Dev Kit for hobby game designers.

[aoshi 1]

Maybe if Bohemia, pay for good mods, make it as an incentive... it will make the addon makers incentivated

that will never happen

[David77 10]

I've always been an avid scripter & mission maker. This topic concerns me. There's too many ways it can be... bad. The mods would have to be game changing, but also very well done. It can't be a cluster fuck of a mod no matter how game breaking the mod is. Where there's 5 version floating around due to updating it every day, things like that, like how *cough* Ace was... + FREE updates to said mod / addon / mission when they are available.

What I do want is for BI to make some ground breaking new content in the future. I'll gladly pay.

Edited September 16, 2013 by David77

[spamurai 3]

Maybe if Bohemia, pay for good mods, make it as an incentive... it will make the addon makers incentivated

that will never happen

You know... there is some logic to this statement.

Since ArmA appears to be increasingly dependent on it's modding community to actually furnish content that provides a reason to play the game at all. Especially now, more then ever with ArmA 3. Giving incentives to possibly attract triple-A modders into coming to ArmA and building badly needed attractions to play ArmA seems smart in this case.

However...

Look at what you are essentially saying... Buy ArmA for 60$ and then you buy additional content to make ArmA worthwhile?

Honestly, ArmA 3 is way too expensive to be attractive to anyone who isn't hardcore into ArmA as is... and most of us already bought the game when it was Alpha-cheap... so who do you think is going to be motivated to try ArmA at a full industry (cliche) price of $60? And then pay more money on top for End-User addon's? You would be killing the accessibility of ArmA to potential gamers.

Now if you want to talk about cutting ArmA's price tag down severely to like $30 and then you pay $5 for the mod you want to play... maybe then it would be come workable.

Even then it still isn't palatable. This idea isn't headed in the right direction for ArmA in general.

[tortuosit 486]

Paid user content: BIS, obviously you couldn't get the ArmA 3 job done in time (Steam release date) - so maybe hire people, not the community?

[Deadfast 43]

Paid user content: BIS, obviously you couldn't get the ArmA 3 job done in time (Steam release date) - so maybe hire people, not the community?

Where do you think those people would come from if not the community? And do you think the majority of them will then be available to continue their community activity while working full time?

[mercenar1e 10]

at first i thought paid user made content was a horrible idea but i am slowly changing my mind... it all depends on the type of user content that would be for sale. Are we simply talking about selling vehicles? or would it be much bigger in scope? like a military/civilian flight simulator with missions, etc?

[tortuosit 486]

Where do you think those people would come from if not the community? And do you think the majority of them will then be available to continue their community activity while working full time?

a) Not necessarily from community b) probably not, but so what? It all feels like the company did not scale with the game the same way as the MP performance did not scale with the growing map sizes. Expansion of BIS is what I'm talking about.

[pressytcn 10]

what about doing it like many smartphone rom developers do over at xda they make a fully working costum os for your phone A mod

some of them have a donate option you don't have to but if you do you get a little more also this way you get to test the mod and see if it's even somthing you would use also i think if mods are to be paid for alot users will expect them to perfect and demand the creators to keep them updated fix bugs and so on

and another thing is that they will probaly end up on p2p or torrent sites so i think a donate option is better there are modders that are realy tallented i woulden't mind donating a little to support them

[spamurai 3]

The key here for me is that if we have a "Mod" made by a community member which significantly attracts public traffic into playing ArmA 3, then it would make sense if that modder profits a little bit by that mod. If people are buying ArmA 3 just to play this specific mod, then BIS is benefiting from it financially and therefore, so should the modder. However, let's be honest here... there are no mods currently associated with "ArmA" that attract a noteworthy amount of attention from gamers. Even our most well know mods within the community like ACE Mod, do not have the gravity to significantly influence people into playing more ArmA in a meaningful way. For example; There are many existing ArmA players who consider ACE mod to be synonymous with ArmA, but this does not impact sales of ArmA 3.

An example of a mod that did have a significant impact on not only the total sales of ArmA, but the volume of positive attention brought to ArmA, was Dean Hall's DayZ.

For years prior to 2012, I could not motivate people to buy and try ArmA, for any reason. No screenshot, no youtube clip, not my droning on about of how awesome it is or my desperate begging to come play it. Nothing. Then in 2012, everyone I know is suddenly banging down my door asking me "What is ArmA?", "What is this DayZ and how do I get it working?". More people are buying ArmA 2 in 2012, then at any point since it's release. Suddenly this 2 year old game is #1 on the Steam Chart and everywhere you look, people and media are talking about the game. It's hard to find good examples of ArmA-play on Youtube.... but there are no shortage of Day-Z "Let's Play" videos now.

However, now that we've shipped off Dean Hall to make Day-Z a separate game, so goes all that attention. I mention that ArmA 3 is released and everyone asks "will it have Day-Z?". When I tell them no, they go back to being indifferent towards ArmA and ask "When is Day-Z going to be available?"

This sort of phenomenom is not exclusive to ArmA. It happens in many games, where a mod becomes a better selling point then the parent game it's based on. Half Life had Counterstrike, Battlefield 1942 had Desert Combat and so on; and so forth.

We need another "DayZ" to replace the hole left by Dean Hall's departure.

[kylania 568]

at first i thought paid user made content was a horrible idea but i am slowly changing my mind... it all depends on the type of user content that would be for sale. Are we simply talking about selling vehicles? or would it be much bigger in scope? like a military/civilian flight simulator with missions, etc?

The same quality missions and campaigns and addOns we have now but instead you'll have to pay $5 for each one.