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Body armor is perhaps one of the most important developments for modern infantry - so it would be nice to see ArmA 3 properly simulate it.

Some people don't like the idea of players having body armor, but I think it needs to be introduced at some point, it would be great as a server / difficulty option (and I don't mean the "extended armor" option, that is not exactly satisfactory).

All the soldiers are wearing body armor, the game takes place in the 2030s and it is over a decade since OFP was released... so I think it's time ArmA should start properly simulating it. Modding can help improve this, but most servers and players are not running mods - modding is not exactly a great solution to something that could be a core feature.

I hope some future update will bring this feature, it seemed to be very popular on the Feedback Tracker (354 votes for it): http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=5377

Your thoughts?

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my thoughts: it's going to be in DayZ, so we just have to hope at some point BIS port it over to Arma 3. :rolleyes:

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I do have to say i hate the Extended Armor, on AI. You shoot him 5 times, he just stands there like he is being shot with bb's. And than turns around and kills you in one shot. This extended armor needs to go, doesnt matter how many armor you wear, you cant survive 5 rounds!

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I do have to say i hate the Extended Armor, on AI. You shoot him 5 times, he just stands there like he is being shot with bb's. And than turns around and kills you in one shot. This extended armor needs to go, doesnt matter how many armor you wear, you cant survive 5 rounds!

Really? The base level III standard is that it must survive at least 6 .308 rounds.

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You might survive it, but are you still going to be standing and in fighting condition? (For all I know, it might have improved to that point, genuine question)

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my thoughts: it's going to be in DayZ, so we just have to hope at some point BIS port it over to Arma 3. :rolleyes:

Yes, I have seen the demonstration of DayZ's body armor... it would be silly if DayZ had it, but the full military simulator did not :D doesn't VBS2 also have it? It must.

In any case it would be an important addition, would also change up the gameplay quite a bit... placement of shots would become far more important, just like what happened with the insurgents in Iraq I suspect we would see snipers moving closer to their targets so they can be more accurate and also have a better retained energy for more chance of penetration.

You might survive it, but are you still going to be standing and in fighting condition? (For all I know, it might have improved to that point, genuine question)

Maybe, maybe not, sometimes the person will stumble or fall, etc... it can stop a lot. The reason I suddenly decided ArmA 3 needs this feature is a (non-fiction...) book I was reading in which armor definitely stopped a lot of deaths and changed the outcome of fights...

[...] the helmet was shot off his head. Almost immediately, he was hit three times in the chest, twice in the back [...] the rounds that hit Kalentis were stopped by ballistic plates in his vest [...]
A dozen Taliban fighters with rockets and belt-fed machine guns are shooting from behind cover at a distance of fifteen or twenty feet [...]Brennan goes down immediately, wounded in eight places. Eckrode takes rounds through his thigh and calf and falls back to lay down suppressive fire with his SAW. Gallardo takes a round in his helmet and falls down but gets back up. Doc Mendoza, farther down the line, takes a round through his femur and immediately starts bleeding out [...] Giunta gets hit in his front plate and his assault pack and barely notices except that the rounds came from a strange direction.

If BIS does this at some point (hopefully) it would be good if they looked at real-world stats and figures and tried to copy that as best as they could. Also it would be good if they gave armor some config values to allow modders to change what rounds can and can't penetrate, when armor is compromised, perhaps allowing a larger chance of penetration when armor degrades, what bullets cause "blunt trauma" and how much, etc etc.

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The reason I suddenly decided ArmA 3 needs this feature is a (non-fiction...) book I was reading in which armor definitely stopped a lot of deaths and changed the outcome of fights...

Is the book any good and if so what is it? I've read a few on Afghanistan and Iraq lately, some have been good and some not.

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You might survive it, but are you still going to be standing and in fighting condition? (For all I know, it might have improved to that point, genuine question)

Combat effectiveness is something that is difficult to implement. If wounded = shaking, blurred vision, cannot walk, red tint is about the best we've seen. Often people view an 'arm shot' as something to laugh at but in reality it's often you out of the fight from that point. Obviously you don't want that to be in a game, that wouldn't make it a game. When you blur reality and gaming it starts to get awfully iffy. Reality has a few rules but quite as often exemptions to the rule. Research into wound ballistics and there are... plenty of stories!

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I'm a very big proponent of functional body armour in A3, and my views along it would be something like this:

1, Yes, it's effective enough to stand quite a lot of punishment. Though there are plenty of instances in which soldiers haven't even noticed being hit by AK rounds while wearing it, I think having something like that in Arma would be to walk down a slippery slope where people might one day start arguing that "there was a Marine on Iwo Jima who smothered two hand grenades with his own body without dying, I want that!", so I'd say you should get knocked down and experience the worst from having your body armour stop an assault rifle bullet, i.e. completely out of breath, dazed, disorientated, etc. It should mean rubbish aim for a while, decreased FOV, "drunk" vision, not being able to sprint, etc. It's also a question of game vs. reality balancing; If pretty much any bullet or shrapnel hitting you in an unprotected area is enough to put you out of the fight, you shouldn't get to be hit by an AK round in your vest without any effects. Being knocked down for starters would be very easy with ragdoll, since it's already possible for human players to get knocked down by a car without getting killed.

2, It could be along the lines of body armour in VBS2, with small modifications being necessary, as one is a military training tool and one is a game/simulator for the commercial market. Last time I checked the body armour in VBS2 (in this thread at least, can we limit the amount of people quoting VBS2 to the ones who've actually used it?) you'd get hit but still suffer damage. I see why it could be useful there, but for Arma I'd much rather have it be perhaps some damage for every stopped bullet, but in that case have your health regenerate after a while, and include the knock down effects and such previously mentioned that aren't in VBS2.

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Is the book any good and if so what is it? I've read a few on Afghanistan and Iraq lately, some have been good and some not.

Giunta is a Medal of Honor recipient, AFAIK, so it's probably something about him, memoirs or something

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I can only imagine situation when people will say: I'VE SHOOT HIM 6 TIMES AND HE LIVED!? :P Although I'm all for any kind of simulation of anything :P(tanks, choppers, ballistic vests etc)

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I feel like the inclusion of body armour should go hand in hand with a more detailed wounding system. As much as it might horrify some people here, the locational wounding and damage system in Operation Flashpoint: Red River was actually pretty slick, simple and effective. Damage to legs or arms would (if bad enough) prevent running or sprinting, or severely hinder aiming. It was possible to bleed out, if first aid wasnt applied promptly enough, and if a soldier was incapacitated, a teammate (including enemy ai for their comrades) could revive them.

Having the torso or head covered by armour that take several heavy hits would be offset by the fact that the given soldier might be otherwise incapacitated: unable to move or fight effectively due to leg or arm wounds.

Some revive or first aid scripts already model some of these features, but are often pretty buggy or incomplete. They really need to be built into the core game by BIS themselves.

Of course, one of the problems that many arma players will have is that many people have mentally associated the "one bullet to kill" damage model with reality. This is largely due to the lack of armour in previous arma games, but has resulted in a somewhat scewed impression of "how things are".

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Giunta is a Medal of Honor recipient, AFAIK, so it's probably something about him, memoirs or something

Book actually, War, written by Sebastian Junger. Great read by the way.

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Book actually, War, written by Sebastian Junger. Great read by the way.

Thanks. I think I might look into getting a copy.

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I would like to see body armor have ballistic protection.

And simply adding a rag doll factor for the Caliber of the round would negate negative issues IE RoboCop AI.

So you get hit by 7.62mm you fall down, Hit multiple times by 5.56mm you fall down, Hit by 9mm you laugh it off and nail the guy shooting you.

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I would like to see body armor have ballistic protection.

And simply adding a rag doll factor for the Caliber of the round would negate negative issues IE RoboCop AI.

So you get hit by 7.62mm you fall down, Hit multiple times by 5.56mm you fall down, Hit by 9mm you laugh it off and nail the guy shooting you.

I may be mis-interpreting the config entry but the standard NATO vests have:

armor = "5*0.5";

passThrough = 0.7;

I would assume that to some extent simulates the protection they offer. (Unles I've mis-read what you meant by ballistic protection)

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No clue how that system works, though. It seems to suggest that it modifies the damage over the entire body, so even if you shoot somebody in the hand, it will count as if it is fully protected. My suggestion of which I have posted the picture in the ticket linked by the OP would be to use the native penetration system to simulate armor plates, rather than using mathematical modificators over the entire body. Either that, or open up how this system actually works so we can understand it.

Additionally, the damage done by many weapons is weird right now, usually too low, and occasionally people without bodyarmor seem to be able to take more damage than people with bodyarmor. If anything, it seems inconsistent and murky.

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I would assume that to some extent simulates the protection they offer. (Unles I've mis-read what you meant by ballistic protection)

The name "armor" for that value is misleading... even civilians have armor for all their body parts. Those values can make the soldier tougher all over or in certain areas, but I believe it's just essentially an increase in hitpoints. Right now nothing prevents bullets from damaging players (or AI), shooting someone with a pistol results in damage so the armor is merely cosmetic.

My suggestion of which I have posted the picture in the ticket linked by the OP would be to use the native penetration system to simulate armor plates, rather than using mathematical modificators over the entire body.

This would be interesting... note that penetration decreases as the projectile loses velocity, so they would have to adjust it.

It would be good if they made TWO penetration values for bullets, one for armor, and one for more "fluid" penetration such as people, animals, car doors, solid cover, etc... The reason for having two values being that some bullets are good at initially piercing armor, but other bullets (which are worse against armor) may exhibit better penetration in different materials.

Book actually, War, written by Sebastian Junger. Great read by the way.

Yep, that's the one. Good book.

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I hope body armor never makes it into ArmA3 in its current state.

The fact that you can get hit three times with 6.5mm and suffer absolutely no negative consequence but slightly annoying postprocessing effects is bad enough.

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The system of hit points like now - is outdated. Now the game has already one element of non-penetrating armor. This weapon. Why will not create a non-penetrating plate (do not penetrate to certain types of bullets) with its own system of hit points? For example, body armor "B" stands 5 bullets "B" cal (the player does not take damage, but feels the hit).

Thereafter protection vest reduced to a level "A" (its penetration cal "B"). About a ballance. At the same time, you can add a special type of armor-piercing bullets for all weapons (the worst ballistics, more weight and less damage to the human body). + To increase the impact of weight on the character. + It is possible, the negative impact of heavy body armor on the reaction and the activity of player movement. + Reduce the hit points of a person without the armor to a minimum. Now a civilian can withstand falling 1-2 5.56 in the abdomen or chest at close range.

Edited by Kirill

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The fact that you can get hit three times with 6.5mm and suffer absolutely no negative consequence but slightly annoying postprocessing effects is bad enough.

As far as I'm aware that only happens when you play with arcade settings. On elite (or any server configured to work like elite) you will die in 1-2 shots. Though it's still just a simple boring hit point system. Was really hoping for more, but really can't expect much nowadays :(

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I think that using TPW_Fall (part of the mod package now) is a great way around the currently problems with body armor. Anybody hit by large caliber bullets will fall to the ground, where you can finish them off, but they'll still be able to shoot back and get back up in a bit so look out!

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You might survive it, but are you still going to be standing and in fighting condition? (For all I know, it might have improved to that point, genuine question)

This, it needs a knock back/knock down.

You're going to break a few ribs

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