Unrealistic weapons damage

[rye1 21]

I fully agree: The weapondamage is much to weak and that feels rather weird right now.

Furthermore it seems like vests and equipment provide no noticable protection.

I used a standard 9mm pistol and fired at both a civilian (civlian clothing only) and a fully equiped friendly soldier (with vest). For both of them I needed 5 !!! sucessful hits to the torso at point blank range, to drop them.

(extended Armor was disabled of course)

You do realize that's a normal happening, right?

If you research into wound ballistics, you will soon realize that. 9mm FMJ is a poor round for multiple reasons. Strangely enough it acts better after penetrating an object.

[Tonci87 163]

I think that the AI should go in a ragdoll state when it is hit and then get back up and continue.

[maturin 12]

Everyone go do yourselves a favor and install TPW mods.

He doesn't change weapon damage, but makes units respond realistically to hits and wounds.

If in ArmA 2 many bullets were too likely to deal instant death, and ArmA 3 is like body armor on steroids but unrealistically handled, then TPW is the happy medium between the two.

[instagoat 133]

Weapons can be penetrated, though.

With the sniper rifle you can shoot straight through a guys rifle and kill him. After this recent devpatch civilians are killed by single rounds at close range, and soldiers need two ish.

Bulletproof vests still do not work, however, which makes me chew on my mousepad and laser eye people in the street.

[maturin 12]

Bulletproof vests still do not work, however, which makes me chew on my mousepad and laser eye people in the street.

What do you mean? Soldiers can take 2-3 6.8mm rounds. But if you take off their vests, they die in one shot.

[GrindedCorpse 1]

What do you mean? Soldiers can take 2-3 6.8mm rounds. But if you take off their vests, they die in one shot.

Most AI run around with range master belts which provides 0 cover to the upper torso (which is where most people will aim at)

[-Coulum- 35]

Thread shouldn't be titled unrealistic weapon damage but rather unrealistic wounding system. The problem is in how players and ai react and are effected by wounds. After that has been fixed you can worry about tweaking damages, armour etc.

Bullets aren't as instantly fatal nor reliable as many "Tactical/Reaslistic" shooters/movies make them out to be. Basically if you don't cripple the upper central nervous system there is absolutely no guarantee the target will go down, let alone die, instantly. However, just because it doesn't kill you doesn't mean your going to be fighting like on as if you got shot with a squirt gun.

I have yet to see any video game simulate what I would consider beleiveable stopping power.

May have posted this before, but heres a vid I found informative on the subject:

[rye1 21]

Coulum, great videos - all scientifically-backed. I've read some of the studies he references and the number one point is shot placement. ARMA is very poor with hit detection and damage propagation in my opinion and if they did ever want to expand on the wounding system then that would be the place to start.

[GrindedCorpse 1]

@Coulum ... Thanks for the video, but that's something I was aware of before creating this thread.

When I talk about "torso hit" I'm talking about a direct hit to the heart... but like said in the video, the brain can sustain life for approximatively 10 to 15sec (Been said too during the Zimmerman trial)

Anyway, like explained in the video... as long as there's not a significant loss in blood pressure, the target is likely to either keep coming or flee.

Altho in the present case, we're not just talking about 1 or 2 bullets being fired... we're talking about 5 to 6 and sometimes and entire magazine... that, that just doesn't make any sense.

Again... this is a really harsh environment with a very strange architecture.

Things like blood loss and blood pressure are really hard to simulate accurately therefore, a standard must be created so that the game can feel a certain way.

I know I'm asking for a lot and I do realize it might be hard and/or even impossible to accomplish but ... meh, one can hope, I guess.

Anyway... it doesn't really change that weapons do feel underpowered.

Glad to see this thread is still going.

Edited September 28, 2013 by DooM

[2nd ranger 282]

Most AI run around with range master belts which provides 0 cover to the upper torso (which is where most people will aim at)

Huh? The only AI that wears a rangemaster belt is the rangemaster and competitor.

[GrindedCorpse 1]

Huh? The only AI that wears a rangemaster belt is the rangemaster and competitor.

we're not playing the same mod.

[TSAndrey 1]

I shoot an AI 2 times and he can still sprint away to cover. WTF?!

[John_Lennon 10]

it takes 4 shots with the MX 6.5mm to kill. Even if you are 3m away... it feels a bit like CoD Normal Mode ^^ ... I would like it if 1 shot was enough... I prefer PvP-mode, and it would improve the gameplay if the weapons were "stronger"... the KI would also be much stronger, if they see you - you are dead ;-) ... but anyway, it would be more realistic for my understandig :-)

[maturin 12]

It doesn't take 4. Most often it takes 3, almost as often 2, sometimes 1 or 4.

[Tajin 349]

Todays patch should have fixed civilian damage. 1 5.56mm should kill Civ.

If they "hardcoded" that into the civilian class instead of making it depend on the type of uniform and vest they're wearing, then that makes things even worse!

I'll have to do some testing on that.

[rye1 21]

Instantly kill them? 5.56 or 6.8?

[John_Lennon 10]

so, will anything change about this? Can any dev confim this pls? We are trying to start a PvP CQB-League with CTF and C&H Maps... Small maps with a lot of action 5v5 - 10v10...

Most players are confused about how many bullets it needs to kill... this ends up with spraying the hole mag when you see an enemy...

[Kerc Kasha 102]

I don't know why people think it's more 'realistic' for people to die in one shot considering modern body armour (rifle plates) tend to actually stop bullets. Unarmoured? Even then they wouldn't instantly die at worst fall into shock.

If anything ARMA 3 ridiculously underestimates body armour.

[rye1 21]

I don't know why people think it's more 'realistic' for people to die in one shot considering modern body armour (rifle plates) tend to actually stop bullets. Unarmoured? Even then they wouldn't instantly die at worst fall into shock.

If anything ARMA 3 ridiculously underestimates body armour.

It certainly is not depending on round type and how every many variables you can account for. MK262, one shot, sure. MK211, sure. 6.8, more likely but not uncommon that variances occur. Most people, judging by data and the available research (Dr. Fackler, Dr. Gary K. Roberts, et al) die by bleeding it out - usually out of sight. Hypovolemic shock is certainly a secondary inflicter.

[maffa 29]

My own experience: last time it took up to 4-5 5.56 bullets to take an enemy down. he was far 50m more or less, and every time i hit him he sort of jerked and changed direction. it looked like some sort of lame wooden duck in a shooting gallery. We had to move to 6.5 caseless, i wonder if things improved (but then again, enemies have 5.56 and one-shot us all the same)

Bullet hits are hard stuff simulating, involving ballistics with human phisiology and protection physics. True one bullet may not kill you in one shot, but it may incapacitate you, throw you to the ground, slow you down, impair your aim and lots of other things. Tghis is not a lame D&D setting where you may go on exchanging sword slashes until you are 0 HP. First of all i would like certain information from devs on how precisely wounding works NOW, and how it is supposed to work NOMINALLY. Maybe it's a WIP, maybe its working as intended because "modders will think about it". I would like to have a proper answer on this important topic.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Maffa

[Shagulon 1]

Perhaps a more profound shock of being hit by a bullet? AI seems to momentarily pause then start firing again. Would it not be better to be knocked off your feet when shot? Perhaps a few seconds of disorientation? I'm sure getting shot, even with body armour, would be very profound.

I'm fine with guys going down, and if not getting finished off, recovering and rejoining the fight.

[Bee8190 10]

My own experience: last time it took up to 4-5 5.56 bullets to take an enemy down. he was far 50m more or less, and every time i hit him he sort of jerked and changed direction. it looked like some sort of lame wooden duck in a shooting gallery. We had to move to 6.5 caseless, i wonder if things improved (but then again, enemies have 5.56 and one-shot us all the same)

Bullet hits are hard stuff simulating, involving ballistics with human phisiology and protection physics. True one bullet may not kill you in one shot, but it may incapacitate you, throw you to the ground, slow you down, impair your aim and lots of other things. Tghis is not a lame D&D setting where you may go on exchanging sword slashes until you are 0 HP. First of all i would like certain information from devs on how precisely wounding works NOW, and how it is supposed to work NOMINALLY. Maybe it's a WIP, maybe its working as intended because "modders will think about it". I would like to have a proper answer on this important topic.

Agreed, another element that needs more attention. I liked how AI in arma 2 dropped / threw away their AK's after being critically hit. Maybe wasn't perfect but it added much more immersion. I'd say they're not done with it yet but acknowledgment would be nice

[maturin 12]

AI in ArmA 2 never threw away their weapons. It could happen very rarely if you have ACE installed, but wasn't a wounding feature.

[Make Love Not War 10]

I just tested the jet in ArmA. I fired the gun for 10 seconds at the OPFOR attack helicopter, and it was still flying just fine. I hope this is only a bug, not an attempt to 'balance' the game!

Yes, I do believe the helicopter damage is bugged ATM. I've done a little bit of testing and the only way I've found to take down even a dinky, unarmored Littlebird is to kill both pilots. The helicopters themselves never seem to take any actual damage.

EDIT: Just confirmed it with the Littlebird: despite multiple hits from a Zafir, as confirmed via eventhandler combined with a counter, "damage heli" command is always returning 0. Heli only goes down after I kill both crew members. Doesn't appear to be anything on the bug tracker either. Will test with other weapons and choppers and open a new tracker report later.

EDIT2: Ok, found the problem. Adding EH "handleDamage" seems to make all vehicle invulnerable to damage. Using a different EH, helicopters are quite easy to shoot down with small arms even (assuming you can hit them).

Edited October 11, 2013 by Make Love Not War

[mamasan8 11]

I dont know if this has been discussed but Grenade damage.

I can drop a grenade at my feet and not die, every single time. It takes 2 grenades to suicide. This is more arcade than COD imho.