Refined Vehicles

[Redphoenix 1539]

Yeah, but the brakes shouldn't automatically come on, the vehicle should roll to a stop.

Red this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking

[dunk 10]

I also wonder why tanks can't push themself over certain objects. Their tracks just start spinning slowly and that's it. Best example is that concrete double triangle on your testing ground. Pandur 8x8 got stuck because of differentials. T-100 and Leopard got stuck because their tracks slip. I'm not sure what could reduce that problem. I don't think the test is the problem, i think a tank should be able to handle this without big problems.

I had a lengthy (NOT XD) discussion about this in this thread.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?160385-Tracked-APC-Physics

Also a ticket here.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=12056

I also find it interesting that they decided to do this. Mercenaries 2 from 5 years ago had this down and Steel Fury 2 years before that. Furthermore, it seems impossible to set the suspension up in such a way to simulate compression bounce or remove anti-rollbars entirely.

[Redphoenix 1539]

. Furthermore, it seems impossible to set the suspension up in such a way to simulate compression bounce or remove anti-rollbars entirely.

It is. But because the tracks are handled as wheels you would just roll over in any turn if you disable the anti-rollbars.

You can rearrange the track wheels to make it feel like the real deal. Just set the damper value to 0.

But nvm, I will do all this in my mod. Currently working on the T-100.

[dunk 10]

It is. But because the tracks are handled as wheels you would just roll over in any turn if you disable the anti-rollbars.

Is this only with tanks or with all vehicles? If so, why do you think that is, what factor differs from real life to such an extreme degree in the physics engine that causes such unstable vehicles?

You can rearrange the track wheels to make it feel like the real deal. Just set the damper value to 0.

But nvm, I will do all this in my mod. Currently working on the T-100.

Always good to hear.

[Redphoenix 1539]

Is this only with tanks or with all vehicles? If so, why do you think that is, what factor differs from real life to such an extreme degree in the physics engine that causes such unstable vehicles?

Its pretty simple:

You can experience this when turning. The tank does not simply slows down the track on the inner side of the turn, it just "steers" into the turn. That's what causes this wobbly turning behavior.

Also, you can see that in your video: If the tank becomes stuck on a small edge which sits between its track wheels, you can't move, because neither of the track wheels have traction.

There it comes also at hand that tanks have a differential. Edges or small obstacles wouldn't be a problem if the differential wouldn't exist, and the tank could distribute the power to all track wheels evenly.

[SilEighty 13]

You're not understanding. The brakes don't automatically come on, but neither does the clutch. So the vehicle comes to a quick stop because of engine compression.

I understand completely. I know what engine braking is but if you launch the editor, place a hunter and accelerate and then switch into the passenger seat, the brake lights come on and the wheels lock up...

Red this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking

Engine braking will not cause the wheels to lock up and the brake lights to come on...

[Redphoenix 1539]

I wanted to have the version already to be updated, but ran in a problem.

If you have a minute, please check if it is me or if it's the game: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=16952

[dunk 10]

I just tested it and did not experience any problems with the mod installed. Sorry man.

[spookygnu 563]

Is this a clientside mod?

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

I understand completely. I know what engine braking is but if you launch the editor, place a hunter and accelerate and then switch into the passenger seat, the brake lights come on and the wheels lock up...

Engine braking will not cause the wheels to lock up and the brake lights to come on...

I know this doesn't help at all, but here it is: Don't expect realistic outcomes from unrealistic actions. Tell me the last time you jumped from behind the wheel into the back seat, just to see how fast your car would come to a stop (And pics or it didn't happen), and then and only then will your argument hold water. It's like that dude dropping an APC from a thousand feet and bitching about it not exploding.

Who knows, maybe in 2035, armies started requiring dead-man switches in their MRAPS.

[dunk 10]

I know this doesn't help at all, but here it is: Don't expect realistic outcomes from unrealistic actions. Tell me the last time you jumped from behind the wheel into the back seat, just to see how fast your car would come to a stop (And pics or it didn't happen), and then and only then will your argument hold water. It's like that dude dropping an APC from a thousand feet and bitching about it not exploding.

Who knows, maybe in 2035, armies started requiring dead-man switches in their MRAPS.

Ooooy. Just because it is not a normal but still completely possible action does not mean that the effect should be negated or any attempt to rectify it immediately shot down. Furthermore, you do not need to have been shot to argue the protection a bandolier does not at all provide or ran over a car (devoid of any I.E.D.s) with a tank to know that it does not explode every time so why should he have climbed out of a moving vehicle for his argument to gain the merit to argue that it should not automatically engage its brakes or the engine friction to not immediately stop the vehicle? Hell, as far as I know, several automatic transmissions do not even let you go into park when moving.

Lastly (pointing out your odd grouping of the plausible scenario of dropping an apc with the less plausible jumping out of a car), if you drop an APC (or any vehicle for that matter) you are going to screw it up, no argument. Just look one minute in to know what happens when you drop a vehicle too fast. It bounces onto its roof and probably warped its frame. It is not exploding but it is still disabled vs absolutely nothing happening.

Now time to run out and grab some coffee before I get back to work. COFFEE, COFFEE, COFFEE!!!

[Heinrich Kramer 172]

I know this doesn't help at all, but here it is: Don't expect realistic outcomes from unrealistic actions. Tell me the last time you jumped from behind the wheel into the back seat, just to see how fast your car would come to a stop (And pics or it didn't happen), and then and only then will your argument hold water. It's like that dude dropping an APC from a thousand feet and bitching about it not exploding.

Who knows, maybe in 2035, armies started requiring dead-man switches in their MRAPS.

i liked the arma 2 variant, where they sped up when the driver was shot.

hat some incredibly funny coop moments when this happened :D

[kgino1045 12]

What is difference between @Vehicles_Refined_Alt and @Vehicles_Refined ?

[Heinrich Kramer 172]

one of them changes the names from bohemias fantasynames to the original names of the vehicles

[Lightningstrike 10]

very good mod,

but i think you should keep the vanilla names in the changelog, since we got used to them since the beginning.

when i wanted to try the new vehicle proprieties, i got totally confused.. what the fuck are the 'Pandur II' , 'LGS Fennek', 'Zil' or 'Merkava' ? lol

where would be Arma3 now without the modding community... :j:

[Redphoenix 1539]

Seems like with the update from yesterday the bug I had was fixed (who knows what it was...)

Will try to ship out the new update before Friday.

edit:

very good mod

but i think you should keep the vanilla names in the changelog, since we got used to them since the beginning.

when i wanted to try the new vehicle proprieties, i got totally confused.. what the fuck are the 'Pandur II' , 'LGS Fennek', 'Zil' or 'Merkava' ? lol

Will include them in parenthesis behind their real counterparts.

[Lightningstrike 10]

Will include them in parenthesis behind their real counterparts.

thanks and keep up the good work

do you think it is also possible to edit the mass and center of gravity of the vehicles? is it possible they roll / flip over realistically ? - a bit like in Beam NG Drive

[Redphoenix 1539]

thanks and keep up the good work

do you think it is also possible to edit the mass and center of gravity of the vehicles? is it possible they roll / flip over realistically ? - a bit like in Beam NG Drive

Nope, can't do that. It would require to modify the models in o2, and thats a no-go.

[lappihuan 178]

well it is actually possible with a little bit of scripting involved ;)

setCenterofMass

setMass

are new commands that supports that.

I could make a little "editor" for you to play around with the values :)

[Redphoenix 1539]

well it is actually possible with a little bit of scripting involved ;)

setCenterofMass

setMass

are new commands that supports that.

I could make a little "editor" for you to play around with the values :)

Maybe later on :P

You know how full my schedule is :P

[lappihuan 178]

haha same here, i was about to say not before next month!

[sgtsn1per 1]

would it be possible to manualy shift? This would make it so much more immersive and fun, if your into it.

An Idea would be something such as a combination of shift + z (downshift) shift + x (gear up)

I realise ingame the vehicles have a transmission, if you could mod in the capability to control it, that would be grouse

[sakura_chan 9]

Mr RedPhoenix sir, I have a few questions. I've been playing with the Slammer a bit, and I would like you to confirm a few things if ya can.

1. Tanks don't use 'brakes' at all? Only changing the engine power/torque will change the deceleration rate.

2. Changing the MOI on wheels can dramatically change the acceleration and maneuverability of the tank. Maybe adjusting this on individual wheels could improve handling (sort of like making it rwd or fwd?)

3. It's impossible to make a tank rotate well when stationary, turn well enough to follow tight urban roads at low speed (under 30kph) and NOT spin out at high speed?

4. Tanks use the frictionVsSlip graph, but the simulation class only ever sees friction as 0, afaik. This means you can at least set the grip for each wheel but it won't change depending on speed. Maybe reducing or increasing traction on certain wheels would help handling? I found that with frictionVsSlipGraph[] = {{0,0.2}, {0.5, 1}, {1, 1}} on all wheels the tank was finally able to turn AND accelerate at low speed. You need to severely reduce the tankTurnForce though, the slammer was at 1,100,000 but I had to drop it down to 400,000

Thoughts?

[Redphoenix 1539]

Mr RedPhoenix sir, I have a few questions. I've been playing with the Slammer a bit, and I would like you to confirm a few things if ya can.

1. Tanks don't use 'brakes' at all? Only changing the engine power/torque will change the deceleration rate.

2. Changing the MOI on wheels can dramatically change the acceleration and maneuverability of the tank. Maybe adjusting this on individual wheels could improve handling (sort of like making it rwd or fwd?)

3. It's impossible to make a tank rotate well when stationary, turn well enough to follow tight urban roads at low speed (under 30kph) and NOT spin out at high speed?

4. Tanks use the frictionVsSlip graph, but the simulation class only ever sees friction as 0, afaik. This means you can at least set the grip for each wheel but it won't change depending on speed. Maybe reducing or increasing traction on certain wheels would help handling? I found that with frictionVsSlipGraph[] = {{0,0.2}, {0.5, 1}, {1, 1}} on all wheels the tank was finally able to turn AND accelerate at low speed. You need to severely reduce the tankTurnForce though, the slammer was at 1,100,000 but I had to drop it down to 400,000

Thoughts?

1. Haven't really tested that, but I think the use the brakeTorque value as real brake torque. Could run some tests later.

2. Yep....

3. No, it's not, and I think I know why. You could try turnCoef, but I don't know if this affects tank simulation.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?163352-Refined-Vehicles&p=2601501&viewfull=1#post2601501

You can experience this when turning. The tank does not simply slows down the track on the inner side of the turn, it just "steers" into the turn. That's what causes this wobbly turning behavior.

Also, you can see that in your video: If the tank becomes stuck on a small edge which sits between its track wheels, you can't move, because neither of the track wheels have traction.

There it comes also at hand that tanks have a differential. Edges or small obstacles wouldn't be a problem if the differential wouldn't exist, and the tank could distribute the power to all track wheels evenly.

4. This could be very possible. As the tracks aren't real tracks, just the track wheels themselves are the tracks, its very very hard to make this thing works.

I hope, bet, pray and everything else, that one day we will get real tank track simulation....

But that's not the only problem. I have the feeling that the tank simulation is severely bugged. 8-speed gearbox aren't possible, the game just freaks out and will rev the engine up and down. Linear torque curves for gas turbine engines are not possible as the simulation class does not handles them well together with the automatic gearbox. MOI will certainly create things like in the video. and and and and.

BI really needs to revise their simulation classes. I mean, just check Planetside. They are using PhysX too, and the tanks are absolutely lovely to drive.

Edited January 22, 2014 by RedPhoenix

[reallybigrocks 10]

Hey, I keep getting this bug whenever I spawn an air vehicle in the editor and with the jets I can't taxi or take off