Reality Check

[chortles 263]

Which, moreover, is outright/explicitly why Suma is on the DayZ dev team -- that is, not (intentionally) at Arma 3's expense, but because "he's basically the guy who wrote the engine."

Edited September 17, 2013 by Chortles

[Gekkibi 11]

It's always "nice" to know that BIS favors a zombie game over their flagship...

This starts to sound like "k thx bai" situation to me. What's the situation going to be after, say, 5 years? Clearly not better, that I can tell.

[celery 8]

It's always "nice" to know that BIS favors a zombie game over their flagship...

This starts to sound like "k thx bai" situation to me. What's the situation going to be after, say, 5 years? Clearly not better, that I can tell.

You have to understand though that it's something new and fresh at least for the senior developers who have been making nothing but the same old milsim for over ten years. When DayZ was released in 2012, all they talked about on lunch breaks was DayZ and their own stories within it. :)

[Gekkibi 11]

You have to understand though that it's something new and fresh at least for the senior developers who have been making nothing but the same old milsim for over ten years. When DayZ was released in 2012, all they talked about on lunch breaks was DayZ and their own stories within it. :)

Maybe, but it's not nice to know that DayZ has all the features that should be in Arma 3. I hear rumors about body armor penetration and actual wounding system (only rumors because I couldn't care less about dayz). Of course, if BIS is more interested about bigger revenue (just like every single AAA company should, if you ask them) than having a loyal community, then go for it. I can always find other things to do.

Maybe we could create DayZ mod called Arma 3...

Edited September 17, 2013 by Gekkibi

[EricM 0]

Meanwhile DayZ is stuck into dev limbo, and I've been playing Arma 3 since April.

DayZ seem to be suffering the feature creep that RIE and DNA have been fighting for so hard (at the cost of drastic and unfortunate cuts, I agree) since last year. As a result, Arma 3 is out and DayZ is pushed back again.

Both DNA and RIE seem to be focused on making the basis more solid (even if more limited) before expanding the possibilities. Rather the opposite of standard BIS development up to now (DayZ included). That's understandable despite the negative side effects (3D editor where art thou?).

Slowly trying to clean up the AI code, FSM, animation, controls... baby steps.

We all have our pet peeves, and indeed, without the context of a campaign and story element, the game does feel a bit "sterile" at the moment for me. The gear tab is still missing in the mission editor, and commanding interface is still bonkers though (still no easy access to categories without knowing them by memory, about 30% of actions I probably have never used since OFP demo, and a few I'm still longing to see included : "land" order when in flight for instance). I know most workarounds, but this is still plaguing my experience.

[Dwarden 1124]

again what maddox said is sort of his personal view on things, he don't know about multiple new programmers on team,

that there're are two studios (instead of one from A2/OA time) working on A3 and that 'some' of the 'old school' programmers still work on A3 ...

if somene decides he want to do somethething else (e.g. not another arma) it's his choice ...

actually who else than SUMA would be the best choice for so low level architecture changes DayZ alike MMO model needs

anyway DayZ was in pre-production (pre-alpha) state up until now,

so these claims how it drains major resources away from Arma 3 were just from people who don't know

the never enough excellent programmers is fact and problem any bigger game development studio facing ;)

Edited September 17, 2013 by Dwarden

[windies 11]

The weapon changing issue was just an example to highlight how certain ancient parts of the engine are clearly holding the game back. Obviously there are bigger and more important issues, but the whole "performance vs. concurrency" problem isn't quite as easy to define.

Probably not but it stands to reason that with the complexity and differing nature of concurrency and parallel programming that the way that code is executed would most likely have to be rewritten in a way that better suits concurrency and parallel programming as much as code would have to be rewritten to support changing weapons on the move. The difficulty of the task and size of the task not withstanding.

---------- Post added at 11:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 ----------

Maybe, but it's not nice to know that DayZ has all the features that should be in Arma 3. I hear rumors about body armor penetration and actual wounding system (only rumors because I couldn't care less about dayz). Of course, if BIS is more interested about bigger revenue (just like every single AAA company should, if you ask them) than having a loyal community, then go for it. I can always find other things to do.

Maybe we could create DayZ mod called Arma 3...

Kind of how I feel. A lot of the "New" stuff in ArmA 3 I would trade for better functionality over graphics.

[maddogx 13]

again what maddox said is sort of his personal view on things

Just like everyone else here, I am only expressing my opinions and observations. ;)

so these claims how it drains major resources away from Arma 3 were just from people who don't know

Of course, looking in from the outside we can only speculate, but the fact that Suma is working on DayZ instead of ARMA3 does seem pretty significant to me. After all, he is literally the guy who wrote the engine.

With all due respect to everyone involved, adding new programmers to a dev team won't instantly replace 12 years of expertise, and I think the number of actual core engine changes in DayZ vs. ARMA3 speaks for itself in this matter.

[krycek 349]

again what maddox said is sort of his personal view on things, he don't know about multiple new programmers on team,

that there're are two studios (instead of one from A2/OA time) working on A3 and that 'some' of the 'old school' programmers still work on A3 ...

Then why there are still really ancient AI probs in A3 if there are so many programmers in the team??The flying AI received again very small love.

For example AI attack choppers still fly over enemies and getting shot to pieces making again AI CAS pretty much useless(unless you have drones).The AI drivers are still terrible in towns.These are very old issues and I doubt BI aren't aware of them.

Now don't get me wrong,I'm not blind,I know how much improved is the infantry AI and how much more enjoyable the cqb battles are now.Also I'm aware the AI drivers received some love in dev branch and they can drive better now in convoy or on open roads.

Still those two issues I mentioned are very old,with all those programmers you mentioned isn't a way to fix this or at least improve it??I've seen it in A1 and I thought it will get fixed in A1 patches,didn't happened so I waited A2,didn't happened so I waited the A2 patches,again nothing happened so I waited A3 and here we are again.

[Varanon 892]

the never enough excellent programmers is fact and problem any bigger game development studio facing ;)

What I also find pretty significant is that even minute things like the missing gear selection in the mission briefing aren't being addressed. From my outside perspective, this looks like a severa lack of programming power to me, and I mean severe lack.

By the way, you don't happen to hire outside contractors :D

[Dwarden 1124]

SUMA is still sorting issues on Arma 3, he is primarily 'engine' supervisor ...

the A3 lead programmer is still one of the oldies ...

so don't claim something inline of 'veteran programmers being replaced with rookie' that's just flat out incorrect

[maddogx 13]

SUMA is still sorting issues on Arma 3, he is primarily 'engine' supervisor ...

the A3 lead programmer is still one of the oldies ...

so don't claim something inline of 'veteran programmers being replaced with rookie' that's just flat out incorrect

Well, that's new information for the rest of us, and I wasn't "claiming" anything, merely interpreting what you said. ("multiple new programmers on team") :)

[Dwarden 1124]

Well, that's new information for the rest of us, and I wasn't "claiming" anything, merely interpreting what you said. ("multiple new programmers on team") :)

they're addition to existing ones ;) ...

[metalcraze 290]

For veteran programmers still working on ArmA3 that engine changes seem to be really insignificant for the past 6 months.

If Suma and Co. indeed had a strong input the engine would get rid of stencil shadows and sound occlusion would've been back by now.

If there's another reason why it's so much harder to remove stencil shadows and make objects on the shadowed side of the terrain darker than turn whole RV architecture into a MMO style engine I of course would gladly hear it.

[Gnozo 10]

anyway DayZ was in pre-production (pre-alpha) state up until now,

So are you saying that DayZ Standalone is now in Alpha State?

[mistyronin 1181]

again what maddox said is sort of his personal view on things, he don't know about multiple new programmers on team,

that there're are two studios (instead of one from A2/OA time) working on A3 and that 'some' of the 'old school' programmers still work on A3...

A bit offtopic but... Could be interesting some sort of "makin of", it doesn't need to be videos ( few photos and interviews). But at least to me it would be interesting to see who and how is A3 developed ( it has been done in other gaming studios ).

Maybe people would appreciate better your work.

[Dwarden 1124]

So are you saying that DayZ Standalone is now in Alpha State?

not exacty... that's up to Dean to 'set such mark' ... it was merely my observation of 'state' ... don't try dig official statement off it

---------- Post added at 15:29 ---------- Previous post was at 15:28 ----------

A bit offtopic but... Could be interesting some sort of "makin of", it doesn't need to be videos ( few photos and interviews). But at least to me it would be interesting to see who and how is A3 developed ( it has been done in other gaming studios ).

Maybe people would appreciate better your work.

we can be writing devblogs, post mortems, videos of making off or really working on ... ;)

---------- Post added at 15:31 ---------- Previous post was at 15:29 ----------

For veteran programmers still working on ArmA3 that engine changes seem to be really insignificant for the past 6 months.

If Suma and Co. indeed had a strong input the engine would get rid of stencil shadows and sound occlusion would've been back by now.

If there's another reason why it's so much harder to remove stencil shadows and make objects on the shadowed side of the terrain darker than turn whole RV architecture into a MMO style engine I of course would gladly hear it.

sound stuff is was and being written by someone else, why you even go on it in relation to suma ...

[Smurf 12]

While the chat is about Devs and DayZ mixture, A3 and DayZ can share things like animations or other systems? Or they're that different?

Kind of two birds, one stone.