Reality Check

[cross888 10]

i see no reason to keep bothering about it, most of the misinterpretations comes from the same people over and over again. :D There is also a very generic: but it should be free mindset for some reason

I don't see why modders would want to be "payed" for there work.

Modding something you do because you love the game and want to make it better, lining your pockets out of it and capitalizing on it just means that nobody's going to download your mods.

For example: Me I work for a living so I'd look at a mod and go is it worth paying for? and what assurances will I get if i Buy this mod? And what about the rest of my clan? what about the young lads who got bought the game as a birthday present of there parents? How are they going to afford it? there not. So simply put making modding unofficial premium DLC would split the community.

[STALKERGB 6]

Modding something you do because you love the game and want to make it better, lining your pockets out of it and capitalizing on it just means that nobody's going to download your mods.

By the same argument I'd suggest modders don't tend to care if 1 or 1000 people download their mod because they made it for themselves first and foremost.

I don't see why modders would want to be "payed" for there work.

Regardless of anything else surely you can appreciate being payed for doing something you enjoy?

[Vigil Vindex 64]

There is also a very generic: but it should be free mindset for some reason

There is also a very specific: but I should be paid for everything mindset for some reason.

[gammadust 12]

Ohh... but there is also a very inbetween: but if I got an incentive with what additional quality and dedication would I cherry top this mod

[antoineflemming 14]

Yeah they are doing great with the PR...."Hm there is a shitstorm about lack of content? Lets tell them we want money for mods now xD"

The one thing I do agree with is that their PR needs to step up their game. Latest report in really glossed over the current state of the game, which, while pretty ok, is definitely flawed and in need of improvement. I have no problem with the optimism about ArmA 3's reviews and future development, but at the same time I'd like to see the acknowledgement that the product and its launch are far from perfect.

---------- Post added at 11:12 ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 ----------

i see no reason to keep bothering about it, most of the misinterpretations comes from the same people over and over again. :D There is also a very generic: but it should be free mindset for some reason

Well I don't think that people should pay for mods. I think that if someone wants to support a modder monetarily (nothing stopping anyone from doing so), then that's fine. But for an addon built off of free software to be sold isn't something I'd be willing to pay for. But I'm not so sure that's what this is talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this about addons being sold by modders, or about almost community expansions (like I44, CWR2, maybe ACE2, Hell in the Pacific, PR) being sold kinda like community OAs?

[PuFu 4591]

I don't see why modders would want to be "payed" for there work.

I wasn't only talking about addons. For instance, i have seen numerous topics on the following lines: "BI should release all the upcoming DLCs for free, they owe us that", or "the TTP3 should be free of charge for everyone who paid 20$ for a full game", and then of course there is the basic income thread in the oftopic....

Modding something you do because you love the game and want to make it better, lining your pockets out of it and capitalizing on it just means that nobody's going to download your mods.

No, it actually means moving to professional level. Most BI developers are former modders btw. It is a different discussion regarding if and how BI thinks about setting up the payed for addons scheme.

For example: Me I work for a living so I'd look at a mod and go is it worth paying for? and what assurances will I get if i Buy this mod? And what about the rest of my clan? what about the young lads who got bought the game as a birthday present of there parents? How are they going to afford it? there not. So simply put making modding unofficial premium DLC would split the community.

Yes, and in that case, it is your right to vote with a wallet. What splits "the community" far worse than anything else is the lack of a proper server to client synk solution.

By the same argument I'd suggest modders don't tend to care if 1 or 1000 people download their mod because they made it for themselves first and foremost.

Regardless of anything else surely you can appreciate being payed for doing something you enjoy?

There is also a very specific: but I should be paid for everything mindset for some reason.

How many things in life are free?

Ohh... but there is also a very inbetween: but if I got an incentive with what additional quality and dedication would I cherry top this mod

possible. The issue here is the fact that no one outside BI knows how things will be dealt with, but there are already a huge number of people who dedicate their spare time whining based on their own narrow minded suppositions.

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:40 ----------

Well I don't think that people should pay for mods.

I am not in a disagreement with you. But who said anything about INDIVIDUAL ADDONS being sold? BI via Maruk?

No one knows the system BI has in mind, and truth be told, i know a bit more of what is planned (well before A3 was released btw) in terms of future paid content.

But for an addon built off of free software to be sold isn't something I'd be willing to pay for.

And you couldn't.

Arrangements would need to take place in order to grab a commercial version of Bi tools that would allow content to be sold.

Oh, and btw, you'd be amazed how much content is developed using commercial software.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this about addons being sold by modders, or about almost community expansions (like I44, CWR2, maybe ACE2, Hell in the Pacific, PR) being sold kinda like community OAs?

I can't answer that, because, no one outside BI knows it...

[suprememodder 11]

why would anyone want to pay for addons when they can get it for free? if you want to support them so much, go to their website and click the donate button. the whole idea of selling mods is an atrocious concept obviously conceived for the benefit of the game developers. basically, they get people to make expansions/addons for them and maintain the consumer base while they get a percentage of the revenue or simply keeping the consumers engaged in the franchise. completely self serving compared to free mods which benefits both parties, consumer and developer.

[Harbinger2456 10]

But I'm not so sure that's what this is talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this about addons being sold by modders, or about almost community expansions (like I44, CWR2, maybe ACE2, Hell in the Pacific, PR) being sold kinda like community OAs?

I wouldn't even pay for those. To me, those are community mods, and if they want money for their time and effort, they should put a paypal donate button on their download site. They would probably get some donations from the more wealthy players.

When I talk about paid mods, I mean something like a professional third party coming in ( Belsimtek, DCS, etc. ), and say, bringing in something like the Flaming Cliffs 3 addon into Arma. That I would pay for, because its a professionally built HUGE addon. Almost another game.

Of course, one could argue that we should already have that in Arma considering this is Version III, and its 2013.:j:

[Vigil Vindex 64]

How many things in life are free?

How often does planet earth charge you money for anything? When does the sun charge you for heat? Only humans try to claim what is not theirs and sell it to each other.

[mistyronin 1181]

How often does planet earth charge you money for anything? When does the sun charge you for heat? Only humans try to claim what is not theirs and sell it to each other.

Though its quite an interesting philosophical question, I fail to see how it can help with the topic.

[ric 1]

I wasn't only talking about addons. For instance, i have seen numerous topics on the following lines: "BI should release all the upcoming DLCs for free, they owe us that", or "the TTP3 should be free of charge for everyone who paid 20$ for a full game", and then of course there is the basic income thread in the oftopic....

you seem confused Pufu let me help you out.

A. food water air and shelter are things I NEED! not video games

B. if you are going to sell me something I DON'T need then you had better make it good.

C. when selling me the unnecessary you will not engage in false advertising or bate and switch i.e do not show screens shots from in the game for 2 years of items that will not be in final release (F-35, shot guns, sub?).

D. you will not claim "brand new engine" when in fact it is in fact RV3 modified but still possessing the same crippling performance issues.

E. you will not claim "building will be enterer able and destroyable" when i can not even shoot the shutters out of the windows.

I could continue but i am getting tired.... the community is wrong and BIS right mentality that you and you ilk seem tobe mired in is getting old.

I personal don't want anything free....I put thousands in to my PC hardware so $60 plus coming DLC are meaningless to me...what i do want was BIS to handle and respect there bread and butter (us) and take issues according to priority i.e the core of the RV engine which is the biggest problem for A3.

so far what we have seen is more stress put in the performance problem riddled RV3 , underwater environment cut n paste from VBS2, generic reuse of turrets and MG on vehicles, no campaign, almost no SP missions , no dedicated server software...etc

PuFu why dont you ask your self how many of the problems for A3 revolve around the fact that it cannot use are hardware properly...then ask yourself how long they have know this.

[rjc0235 1]

you know what. i really have to agree. ok so yes, the map is HUGE and detailed, and they had to do alot of engine work, but i swear, all the gear that soldiers use is same for all factions, and where are all the aircraft? and ARMA II jet, and not the best one at that? where are the transports, where are the civi aircraft? im really confused.

and really. dont get me started on when I clicked on campaign and it said coming soon. really? you release a game without a single player? thats borderline illegally selling me a product. i brought a game so i could have a player experience. not even giving me any campaign at releae is just like giving me a piece of paper, loads of glitter, but no glue to stick it all down. its a joke Bohemia interactive. a real joke.

what happened to the armoury? and all you give me is live fire drills? cmon guys.

just look at the tactical guide. look at the 3 factions. they all look the same, just a re-skin. ok so yeah, its understandable, but really, the pilots for the factions ARE identical. same with scuba.

ok so maybey in the future one company makes all the weapons and camo and gear and vehicles,

i hope there is a nice fat patch with all this content. fingers crossed this is the iceing on the cake. quote from behemia interactive was "we hope there is no arma 4" so maybey, they will just wonderfully expand.

[Gekkibi 11]

quote from behemia interactive was "we hope there is no arma 4" so maybey, they will just wonderfully expand.

Citation needed, or was that a joke (or something I didn't understand)?

[PuFu 4591]

How often does planet earth charge you money for anything? When does the sun charge you for heat? Only humans try to claim what is not theirs and sell it to each other.

oh well, then instead of staying in front of your pc, you should stay outside, sunbathing. I do agree, that is free.

you seem confused Pufu let me help you out.

Quite on the contrary, i am sure the confused one is no one else but yourself, but lets have a go:

A. food water air and shelter are things I NEED! not video games

great, like everyone else around. +1 point for stating the obvious

B. if you are going to sell me something I DON'T need then you had better make it good.

The basic rules of economy and capitalism

C. when selling me the unnecessary you will not engage in false advertising or bate and switch i.e do not show screens shots from in the game for 2 years of items that will not be in final release (F-35, shot guns, sub?).

maybe.

D. you will not claim "brand new engine" when in fact it is in fact RV3 modified but still possessing the same crippling performance issues.

ohh, i see where you're aiming at...

E. you will not claim "building will be enterer able and destroyable" when i can not even shoot the shutters out of the windows.

...could it be BI?

I could continue but i am getting tired.... the community is wrong and BIS right mentality that you and you ilk seem tobe mired in is getting old.

No, quite on the contrary. I do feel like BI splashed it pretty good this time. No one with some sense would say otherwise. It is one the biggest fuck-ups in recent years regarding both content and features for a game release.

But, truth be told, there has been an over-dramatisation of these facts on those forums similar to a real life catastrophe. Anyone who is actually mad about the situation could easily move on with their life: be it shelf/sell/return the game (where possible) and be done with it. Instead, there are countless threads about the same thing over and over and over again.

I personal don't want anything free....I put thousands in to my PC hardware so $60 plus coming DLC are meaningless to me...what i do want was BIS to handle and respect there bread and butter (us) and take issues according to priority i.e the core of the RV engine which is the biggest problem for A3.

I fail to see the relation.

so far what we have seen is more stress put in the performance problem riddled RV3 , underwater environment cut n paste from VBS2, generic reuse of turrets and MG on vehicles, no campaign, almost no SP missions , no dedicated server software...etc

Again, i fail to see what one has to do with another: you still talking about Maruk recent statements, about current state of this game, or about future DLCs?

My comments regarding "nothing is free" should not be read as a support statement for BI, it was directed towards (we need A2 content in A3), and BI wants to allow addon makers to sell their addons type of posts.

PuFu why dont you ask your self how many of the problems for A3 revolve around the fact that it cannot use are hardware properly...then ask yourself how long they have know this.

Quite a lot. I still don't understand why you put this on me. Have i ever publicly or otherwise stated that this game is the pinnacle of software and hardware symbiosis? No, it is a cacophony with a lot of faults that are over and over denied, despite the fact that MP is pretty much useless due to some legacy (or not so legacy) code problems. I would be happy with SP performance in MP, unfortunately, it is hardly the case.

To conclude: Next time, please read what i write and direct your frustrations towards someone else.

[ric 1]

To conclude: Next time, please read what i write and direct your frustrations towards someone else.

you right..there are a lot of drama queens are here and perhaps i got you wrong but my frustration goes farther than bis but i will not get into that again, sufficed to say next time i will PM because neither one of us is getting royalty's for this.

[pettka 694]

E. you will not claim "building will be enterer able and destroyable" when i can not even shoot the shutters out of the windows.

We have tried that and it would cost some 10-15 % of FPS drop in areas like Kavala. We have compromised on that for sake of game performance and still most of the buildings are destroyable - it just depends on the extent of allowed damage parts :icon_twisted:

[dale0404 5]

and really. dont get me started on when I clicked on campaign and it said coming soon. really? you release a game without a single player? thats borderline illegally selling me a product. i brought a game so i could have a player experience. not even giving me any campaign at releae is just like giving me a piece of paper, loads of glitter, but no glue to stick it all down. its a joke Bohemia interactive. a real joke.

Mate, you need to read stuff before you buy. BI have made quite clear that the campaign will come over the following months in 3 free DLC's along with 2 CAS jets and other content. It even states that the campaign will be "incoming" on the Steam page, how did you miss that?

[dmarkwick 261]

and really. dont get me started on when I clicked on campaign and it said coming soon. really? you release a game without a single player? thats borderline illegally selling me a product. i brought a game so i could have a player experience. not even giving me any campaign at releae is just like giving me a piece of paper, loads of glitter, but no glue to stick it all down.

I agree that some sort of story-led component really needed to be included. But, if I were to use such a tortuous analogy ;) I would say you have the paper, glitter and glue, what you don't have is the finished card. IMO the content included with the initial release is suitable for balanced or imbalanced gameplay (depending on mission design), but you got to make it yourself for the most part.

just look at the tactical guide. look at the 3 factions. they all look the same, just a re-skin. ok so yeah, its understandable, but really, the pilots for the factions ARE identical. same with scuba.

ok so maybey in the future one company makes all the weapons and camo and gear and vehicles,

I think its been well established that further content is to be released over 3+ DLCs.

[mercenar1e 10]

Mate, you need to read stuff before you buy. BI have made quite clear that the campaign will come over the following months in 3 free DLC's along with 2 CAS jets and other content. It even states that the campaign will be "incoming" on the Steam page, how did you miss that?

I'm not complaining but i bought the game during Alpha and at that point the campaign delay wasn't mentioned up until Beta, i believe it was advertised/worded as something that would be available upon launch.. the only problem i have with the game is the lack of variety in pretty much everything available to the player... way too reliant on the mod community that's for sure lol i don't think a developer placed all of its eggs in that basket before.

[rjc0235 1]

Citation needed, or was that a joke (or something I didn't understand)?

erm, it was last years E3 video. they were innterviewing someone at the booth, and they said about nodding is a huge part of arma III, where will arma IV take us, to space? and the guy pretty much said they hope there will be no arma IV (meaning arma III will be robust as hell) and they can fully focus on other bohemia interactive titles and arma III, not dropping development and starting arma IV. unfortunately, as someone on the internet, i have no citation.

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 ----------

oh yes. i do not doubt that. they will certainly deliver, but to go into release now, and not in a months time, a bit of a shame. also (fool on me) when you pre-order a game, info like that isnt out there at the time. still, imagine shipping an elderscrolls game where they havn't done the magic system yet.

[froggyluv 2130]

We have tried that and it would cost some 10-15 % of FPS drop in areas like Kavala. We have compromised on that for sake of game performance and still most of the buildings are destroyable - it just depends on the extent of allowed damage parts :icon_twisted:

Dammit more destruction! Kill my computer -that's why I bought it!!

[ric 1]

We have tried that and it would cost some 10-15 % of FPS drop in areas like Kavala. We have compromised on that for sake of game performance and still most of the buildings are destroyable - it just depends on the extent of allowed damage parts :icon_twisted:

thank you pettka for responding , i fully understand why many things were not included in the game but if TOH causes FPS loss and shooting out shutters causes FPS loss how can you consider this a "future platform"? or do you have some kind of road map you would like to share with us for the evolution of RV4 to 64bit and proper scaling across multiple cores?

[Gekkibi 11]

So if a feature causes drop in FPS, it must be rejected? Wouldn't this mean we're going to have the same old A2 for all eternity?

We have a lot better computers now than we had in 2009. What do I do with 32 GB of RAM? I have superb GFX card and sufficient CPU. FPS is stable (outside of MP / if I put way too much AI). I can run A3 on ultra. I would be happy to decrese my graphics settings to very high if I would get TOH modeling, better environment destruction, etc. Sorry to be blunt, but this sounds like it's a quick PR excuse. Just my personal 0,02€...

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Will the fact that many types of windows take 30-40 direct hits from assault rifles before they break, or the fact that windows shutters are both locked & unbreakable be addressed? To me intense urban combat often turn into a series "ah ffs, wtf BS!?"-moments when I'm reminded that entering a building will most likely just handicap me. Just like back in 2001.

If not please consider removing both glass and shutters etc from the buildings all together.

Gameplay must prevail :)

Edited September 16, 2013 by Ti0n3r

[HKFlash 9]

Will the fact that many types of windows take 30-40 direct hits from assault rifles before they break, or the fact that windows shutters are both locked & unbreakable be addressed? To me intense urban combat often turn into a series "ah ffs, wtf BS!?"-moments when I'm reminded that entering a building will most likely just handicap me. Just like back in 2001.

Don't overeact, in 2001 you simply couldn't navigate buildings and many of them were not even enterable.