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TPW CIVS: ambient civilians and traffic for Arma 3

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Either use the mod or the script version, not both on the same mission.

I guess I'm thinking along the lines of missions that we want to share. TPW Civs adds a lot of immersion and adding it to a mission via script is a great way to make that immersion consistent for everyone who plays it since not everyone will be using the mod. But if someone IS using the mod, I'm wondering if it's possible for mission makers to detect that. That way we could disable the script and let the mod take over, for example.

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Hi, tpw.

ver 1.09 uses

_allhouses = nearestObjects [position vehicle player,["House"],tpw_civ_radius];

and this also count as a house any object that have "House" in class name imcluding: garbage, walls, lampposts and so on.

It creates very big perfomance hit if you set big raduis parameter (starting from 1km).

With small raduis when flying in helicopter over towns civilians spawning does not keep in pace with heli movement -> towns are empty.

I created simple script that highlights only houses (attaches big red container to them), it runs quite faster even with raduis = 1-2 km.

classes_to_find = ["Land_i_Stone_HouseBig_V1_F","Land_i_Stone_Shed_V1_F","Land_Slum_House01_F","Land_Metal_Shed_F","Land_Slum_House03_F","Land_Slum_House02_F","Land_Cargo_House_V1_F","Land_i_House_Small_01_V1_F","Land_i_House_Small_02_V1_F","Land_i_House_Big_02_V1_F","Land_u_House_Small_02_V1_F","Land_u_House_Small_01_V1_F","Land_i_Stone_HouseSmall_V1_F","Land_d_Stone_Shed_V1_F","Land_Shed_Big_F","","Land_Cargo_House_V2_F","Land_FuelStation_Feed_F","Land_Lighthouse_small_F","Land_i_House_Small_03_V1_F","Land_Stone_HouseSmall_V1_ruins_F","Land_Stone_Shed_V1_ruins_F","Land_i_House_Big_01_V1_F","Land_i_House_Small_01_V2_F","Land_Unfinished_Building_01_F","Land_Shed_Small_F"];

find_radius = 600;

//marker_class = "Sign_Arrow_Large_F";
//marker_class = "Sign_Sphere100cm_F";
marker_class = "Land_Cargo40_red_F";
//marker_class = "C_Offroad_01_F";


if(isnil ("houses")) then {houses = [];};
if(isnil ("markers")) then {markers = [];};

if(isnil("loop_started")) then {

0 = [] spawn 
{
   while {true} do
   { 
loop_started = false;
       private ["_allhouses","_civarray","_deadplayer","_LOS"];
       houses100 = nearestObjects [position vehicle player,classes_to_find,find_radius]; 
_removedHouses = [];
_removedMarkers = [];

{
  _i = houses100 find _x;
         if(_i == -1) then { // removed house
	_removedHouses set [count _removedHouses, _x];
  	_ihouses = houses find _x;

	if(_ihouses != -1) then {
 			_m = markers select _ihouses;
		_removedMarkers set [count _removedMarkers, _m];
	}
  }
} forEach houses;


{
	houses = houses - [_x];
      	} forEach _removedHouses;

{
	markers = markers - [_x];
	deletevehicle _x;
	// dunno why but destroyVehicle does not hide the marker, meybe bug. use hideObject to hide it
	_x hideObject true;
      	} forEach _removedMarkers;


_newcnt = 0;
{
  _i = houses find _x;
         if(_i == -1) then { // new house
	houses set [count houses, _x];
	_m = marker_class createVehicle (position _x);
	markers set [count markers, _m];
	_m attachTo [_x,[0,0,10]];
	_newcnt = _newcnt + 1;
  }
         player globalChat format["houses:%1, markers:%1, new houses:%3",count houses, count markers,_newcnt];

} forEach houses100;

       sleep 2;
   };
};

}; // if run loop

the script can be run safely many times from debug console, first run spawns finding/highlighting process.

can play with class names to highlight and raduis.

another improvement can be made: instead of destroying civilians and spawning them again I think it will be much faster just to teleport them from far distances to nearest location ) (may cause problems in Multiplayer though)

another problem with big radius - much bigger chance that civ's waypoints will be in different towns, and all civilians will be marching in fields between these towns ) -> towns are empty

Think tpw_civ_fnc_waypoint need to get houses closest to spawned cfivilian, not all houses.

Hope these ideas will help you.

Edited by Bashka

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So I was playing with this last night in editor, just having fun with MCC Sandbox. But I noticed that after a while, (roughly when 3-4 civilians died), I'd get a mission failed every time. The fact that it wasn't me or my squad doing the killing didn't matter much. I could check my debriefing afterwards and show no kills, but still the mission fails. (both casualties settings also set to 50)

Also, I noticed that when there are a lot of civilians in an area, they start behaving really strangely. For instance, I had a group of 13 civ guys (I counted them), all come down and either crouch or prone right under the building I was looking down at them from. And despite the fact that I have max casualties both set to 50, when I hit the group with a grenade, the mission prematurely failed from 9 civ deaths.

Also, also, when driving, if a civ comes up behind you in a faster vehicle, you can bet your ass he'll slam into your side, promptly trying to push you off the road. I never spent more than a few minutes on the road without being run down by a faster civ vehicle.

Lastly, I was messing around spawning cars in and noticed how much more "lived in" a town looks with empty cars parked along roads, driveways, and parking lots. Is there any way to do this?

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*facepalm*

have you downloaded it? Then you would have seen that theres both a script and addon version in the DL.

I'm not a big fan of that attitude towards others on this forum and even less of a fan on my thread.

There is a folder in the download called "scripts", they are in there. Open the scripts with Notepad and look at the top few lines, it tells you how to use the scripts.

Thanks Dale!

I guess I'm thinking along the lines of missions that we want to share. TPW Civs adds a lot of immersion and adding it to a mission via script is a great way to make that immersion consistent for everyone who plays it since not everyone will be using the mod. But if someone IS using the mod, I'm wondering if it's possible for mission makers to detect that. That way we could disable the script and let the mod take over, for example.

I get where you're coming from, and I'll certainly look into the best way to ensure that only one version will run.

Hi, tpw.

ver 1.09 uses

_allhouses = nearestObjects [position vehicle player,["House"],tpw_civ_radius];

and this also count as a house any object that have "House" in class name imcluding: garbage, walls, lampposts and so on.

It creates very big perfomance hit if you set big raduis parameter (starting from 1km).

With small raduis when flying in helicopter over towns civilians spawning does not keep in pace with heli movement -> towns are empty.

I created simple script that highlights only houses (attaches big red container to them), it runs quite faster even with raduis = 1-2 km.

classes_to_find = ["Land_i_Stone_HouseBig_V1_F","Land_i_Stone_Shed_V1_F","Land_Slum_House01_F","Land_Metal_Shed_F","Land_Slum_House03_F","Land_Slum_House02_F","Land_Cargo_House_V1_F","Land_i_House_Small_01_V1_F","Land_i_House_Small_02_V1_F","Land_i_House_Big_02_V1_F","Land_u_House_Small_02_V1_F","Land_u_House_Small_01_V1_F","Land_i_Stone_HouseSmall_V1_F","Land_d_Stone_Shed_V1_F","Land_Shed_Big_F","","Land_Cargo_House_V2_F","Land_FuelStation_Feed_F","Land_Lighthouse_small_F","Land_i_House_Small_03_V1_F","Land_Stone_HouseSmall_V1_ruins_F","Land_Stone_Shed_V1_ruins_F","Land_i_House_Big_01_V1_F","Land_i_House_Small_01_V2_F","Land_Unfinished_Building_01_F","Land_Shed_Small_F"];

find_radius = 600;

//marker_class = "Sign_Arrow_Large_F";
//marker_class = "Sign_Sphere100cm_F";
marker_class = "Land_Cargo40_red_F";
//marker_class = "C_Offroad_01_F";


if(isnil ("houses")) then {houses = [];};
if(isnil ("markers")) then {markers = [];};

if(isnil("loop_started")) then {

0 = [] spawn 
{
   while {true} do
   { 
loop_started = false;
       private ["_allhouses","_civarray","_deadplayer","_LOS"];
       houses100 = nearestObjects [position vehicle player,classes_to_find,find_radius]; 
_removedHouses = [];
_removedMarkers = [];

{
  _i = houses100 find _x;
         if(_i == -1) then { // removed house
	_removedHouses set [count _removedHouses, _x];
  	_ihouses = houses find _x;

	if(_ihouses != -1) then {
 			_m = markers select _ihouses;
		_removedMarkers set [count _removedMarkers, _m];
	}
  }
} forEach houses;


{
	houses = houses - [_x];
      	} forEach _removedHouses;

{
	markers = markers - [_x];
	deletevehicle _x;
	// dunno why but destroyVehicle does not hide the marker, meybe bug. use hideObject to hide it
	_x hideObject true;
      	} forEach _removedMarkers;


_newcnt = 0;
{
  _i = houses find _x;
         if(_i == -1) then { // new house
	houses set [count houses, _x];
	_m = marker_class createVehicle (position _x);
	markers set [count markers, _m];
	_m attachTo [_x,[0,0,10]];
	_newcnt = _newcnt + 1;
  }
         player globalChat format["houses:%1, markers:%1, new houses:%3",count houses, count markers,_newcnt];

} forEach houses100;

       sleep 2;
   };
};

}; // if run loop

the script can be run safely many times from debug console, first run spawns finding/highlighting process.

can play with class names to highlight and raduis.

another improvement can be made: instead of destroying civilians and spawning them again I think it will be much faster just to teleport them from far distances to nearest location ) (may cause problems in Multiplayer though)

another problem with big radius - much bigger chance that civ's waypoints will be in different towns, and all civilians will be marching in fields between these towns ) -> towns are empty

Think tpw_civ_fnc_waypoint need to get houses closest to spawned cfivilian, not all houses.

Hope these ideas will help you.

Wow, thanks so much for all these ideas (and code!), I really appreciate them. Recently I've started scanning for "house_f", which dramatically improves performance for exactly the reason that it doesn't pick up rubbish, poles etc. Scanning just for specific classes will of course speed it up further, and I might just do that!

To be honest, the system was only ever really meant to work on a modest radius around infantry, so I hadn't anticipated some of the performance and other issues related to a large radius. I will definitely consider your waypoint suggestion.

So I was playing with this last night in editor, just having fun with MCC Sandbox. But I noticed that after a while, (roughly when 3-4 civilians died), I'd get a mission failed every time. The fact that it wasn't me or my squad doing the killing didn't matter much. I could check my debriefing afterwards and show no kills, but still the mission fails. (both casualties settings also set to 50)

Also, I noticed that when there are a lot of civilians in an area, they start behaving really strangely. For instance, I had a group of 13 civ guys (I counted them), all come down and either crouch or prone right under the building I was looking down at them from. And despite the fact that I have max casualties both set to 50, when I hit the group with a grenade, the mission prematurely failed from 9 civ deaths.

Also, also, when driving, if a civ comes up behind you in a faster vehicle, you can bet your ass he'll slam into your side, promptly trying to push you off the road. I never spent more than a few minutes on the road without being run down by a faster civ vehicle.

Lastly, I was messing around spawning cars in and noticed how much more "lived in" a town looks with empty cars parked along roads, driveways, and parking lots. Is there any way to do this?

@TheCapulet, the civ casualty thing is definitely a WIP and I'm not actually happy with it TBH. A civ should only register as a casualty the once (a casualty flag is set), and it's just a simple counter arrangement each time any civ is hit. I think I will probably transition to a popup warning instead of a mission fail.

I've never seen the civ behaviour thing you refer to, but I have it set so that there are only 5-10 max. I've fixed some waypoint #$%^ups with the latest release, so this might help.

Civs are terrible terrible drivers and this mod won't fix it. Civ traffic should slow down when closer than 250m or so to the player. That's about all I can (or want) do.

Spawning empty cars is doable, but can be tricky. I don't know if you remember the alpha releases when there was an ambient civilian module, but you could pretty much guarantee that it would spawn cars into houses and they'd explode.

TPW CIVS v1.10: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_CIVS_110.zip

Changes:

  • Civilians/cars/animals may be separately enabled/disabled mid game.
  • Fixed bug in waypoint behaviour.

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Hi tpw,

Appreciate the work you are doing on this mod, its definitely a nice little addition. I do want to add i'm not a big fan of the current approach of mission ends when you start killing civilians. Call me evil but I kinda like being able to rock up into a town and run a muck. I know its probably not your plan to turn this into GTA but it would be kind of neat if instead of ending the mission perhaps some sort of armed presence turns up to hunt you down.

That's my 2 cents worth :)

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Hi tpw,

Appreciate the work you are doing on this mod, its definitely a nice little addition. I do want to add i'm not a big fan of the current approach of mission ends when you start killing civilians. Call me evil but I kinda like being able to rock up into a town and run a muck. I know its probably not your plan to turn this into GTA but it would be kind of neat if instead of ending the mission perhaps some sort of armed presence turns up to hunt you down.

That's my 2 cents worth :)

Thanks mate. I'm not a fan either, it's disabled for the next release until I can think of something better. The civilian casualty variables tpw_civ_allcas and tpw_civ_squadcas are still incremented, and can be accessed by a third party.

The original intention of this mod was simply to provide a bit of immersion, not to be a mission in and of itself.

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I understand that people have different opinions, and that tpw can do as he chooses with his mod, obviously. But with all due respect, isn't it true that he has already provided an option for those who didn't want to end mission? If you don't want to end mission can't you simply change the default "4" to 4000, or whatever, and that way everyone gets what they want? Just asking is all. Since I do enjoy the fact that it exists.

Having said that, Plan B for me would be the knowledge that civ kill counters were created for A2, and if tpw chooses to remove it from this mod, I can just be patient and hope that someone will do the same for A3. Personally I think its an awesomely logical tool to have.

Oh, and BTW - I was planning on commenting in your thread soon pomigit - I Really dig your player models! Excellent work.

EDIT: I started typing this before tpw's reply was there. Ah well, so be it. I respect your decision.

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I understand that people have different opinions, and that tpw can do as he chooses with his mod, obviously. But with all due respect, isn't it true that he has already provided an option for those who didn't want to end mission? If you don't want to end mission can't you simply change the default "4" to 4000, or whatever, and that way everyone gets what they want? Just asking is all. Since I do enjoy the fact that it exists.

Having said that, Plan B for me would be the knowledge that civ kill counters were created for A2, and if tpw chooses to remove it from this mod, I can just be patient and hope that someone will do the same for A3. Personally I think its an awesomely logical tool to have.

Oh, and BTW - I was planning on commenting in your thread soon pomigit - I Really dig your player models! Excellent work.

EDIT: I started typing this before tpw's reply was there. Ah well, so be it. I respect your decision.

Don't fret mate, I haven't released it yet! I'm considering a 3 tier system:

1 - Do nothing, just increment counters

2 - Display a popup when you exceed the casualty thresholds

3 - End the mission when you exceed the casualty thresholds.

Hopefully this will keep everyone happy. I can't afford to alienate you, you're probably 25% of my user base.

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Don't fret mate, I haven't released it yet! I'm considering a 3 tier system:

1 - Do nothing, just increment counters

2 - Display a popup when you exceed the casualty thresholds

3 - End the mission when you exceed the casualty thresholds.

Hopefully this will keep everyone happy. I can't afford to alienate you, you're probably 25% of my user base.

Well, honestly, if you just set it as 4000 or add an enable/disable feature, then mission makers who want that enabled or just any player that does can then enable it. That way the functionality is there, but it isn't restrictive right out the box.

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Heh. I like your style sir. But c'mon, you clearly are creating a larger fan base with each passing day. And deservedly so.

I just wanted to remind folks about the Option in the mod menus. Something I'm quite familiar with myself. Didn't want to sound preachy, it's just that if people are aware of, and make use of, the the options you created, it can sometimes be possible for folks with differing opinions to each get what they want.

Anyway, I have a tendency to type too much. Thanks tpw.

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LOL- you guys are asking a lot from a "populate the towns" abit -mod :p

I don't think you want to many penalties etc... as they can really mission design unless of course there are off switches. Too bad there aren't more panic animations such as people screaming, pointing towards danger, hardcore sprinting for their lives, covering there heads, shaking and general other motions of chaos.

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LOL- you guys are asking a lot from a "populate the towns" abit -mod :p

I don't think you want to many penalties etc... as they can really mission design unless of course there are off switches. Too bad there aren't more panic animations such as people screaming, pointing towards danger, hardcore sprinting for their lives, covering there heads, shaking and general other motions of chaos.

TPW EBS and/or WW AICOVER will send civs packing once the bullets and explosions start flying. But yeah there is pretty limited variety in the animations.

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tpw is awesome at making things customizable/optional via userconfigs so this is probably a moot point, but it seems like counting civilian deaths is beyond the scope (er, spirit?) of the mod in a lot of ways. I think it would be pretty easy for a mission maker to add a civilian kill counter and then either end the mission or trigger an armed civilian response (ideas I like) based on the number of civilian deaths without it being hard-coded into what's essentially a more flexible replacement for the old ambient civilians module from Arma 2.

Edit: Sorry, I was responding to a post that was a few hours old, thinking it was new. Bah.

Edited by ebarstad

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yeah look on second thoughts I agree what I was suggesting is over the top. It is after all just a populate town module, not a mission in itself. Any other fancy features can be put together by mission makers. I retract my suggestion :)

and thanks R-Flagg. Appreciated

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Don't know if you've seen VBS2's new middleware plug-in for civilians but just for hoots

Edit: And here is the Traffic one

No GTA here but not bad. Would like to see them handle that new Sport Hatchback :p Edited by froggyluv

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I think it would be pretty easy for a mission maker to add a civilian kill counter ....

Guess it depends on your POV. If you're a talented script writer, maybe all of this seems easy to you. But IMO, as this thread from A2 seems to suggest,

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?109166-Civilian-kill-Counter

there are plenty of mission makers who don't find it all that easy. And as you can see in that thread, even when Shuko starting piecing one together, it was still not so easy to just 'count civ deaths'. It took extra effort to determine Which Civs you were counting. As in, were they manually placed in editor, were they birthed by Alice, or were they spawned by another one of the many AI spawning mods such as DAC or UPSMON or whatever.

And as far as "...you guys are asking a lot from a "populate the towns" abit -mod", yeah, that's a reasonable opinion to share. But personally, the reason I'm so interested in its dev, is because I think it stands to become the single most important mod for the game. Because this has the potential to become the mod that lots of people launch by default every single time we play, no matter what mission we are playing. It brings the worlds to life, and does it w/o requiring mission makers to spend a lot of time using various other modules and/or AI spawning mods every time we make a mission.

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Thanks for the big rap R, I appreciate it. One thing I've realised with modding is that it's hard to make everyone happy. Sure it should be enough to just make a mod that makes me happy, but in reality I'm happier if the mod makes others happier. I wouldn't release them otherwise. It's difficult to strike a balance between maintaining the scope of the mod and providing enough features/configuration to make the mod broadly useful.

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Guess it depends on your POV. If you're a talented script writer, maybe all of this seems easy to you. But IMO, as this thread from A2 seems to suggest,

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?109166-Civilian-kill-Counter

there are plenty of mission makers who don't find it all that easy.

No, I was just being presumptuous based on my experience with counting blufor and opfor deaths. I didn't realize it was so involved and complicated to count civilian casualties.

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DEV Build 109940

SP Editor / preview

CBA3 / CIVS 110 addon version / EBS 108

'...ivilian;
_spawncar = _car createvehicle |#|_spawnpos;
_spawncar setdir _spawndir;
...'
Error Undefined variable in expression; _spawnpos
File TPW_CIVS\tpw_cars.sqf, line 151

and

'...[] call tpw_car_fnc_nearcar;
};

{

File TPW_CIVS\tpw_cars.sqf, line 312
if (|#|_x distance player < tpw_car_slowdist) t...'
Error Undefined variable in expression: _x

I've spawned at the uber-cool military complex in Altis @ 160170, with those neat dome buildings.

I have placed two gamelogics in the center of the complex, one named tpwcarexc, and one named tpwanimexc. I then walked out to the exit of the complex to the street, and that's when that error popped up. I had not actually seen a car/civ/or animal yet.

BTW - reason I started this particular way, was because I wanted to try to get a handle on how this exclusionary option was to be used, how it worked, and so forth. I mean, if i place those game logics, do they just define a certain radius by default, like a trigger or something? Should it work for example (or could it potentially work), if I place markers down and name the marker? So that we can try to keep a distinct line around a base or airport or whatever that exists in an urban setting, but still enjoy the civs on the surrounding streets.

Edited by R.Flagg

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And as far as "...you guys are asking a lot from a "populate the towns" abit -mod", yeah, that's a reasonable opinion to share. But personally, the reason I'm so interested in its dev, is because I think it stands to become the single most important mod for the game. Because this has the potential to become the mod that lots of people launch by default every single time we play, no matter what mission we are playing. It brings the worlds to life, and does it w/o requiring mission makers to spend a lot of time using various other modules and/or AI spawning mods every time we make a mission.

I think that is the thing that worries some people though. That by including behaviour it will affect missions. If we have opfor doing a mortar strike in a town we don't want it to end if civvies get blown up! It isn't feasible for a mission make to try and disable any behaviours other mods have put in. Having a config param to completely disable behaviour is ok but the simpler a mod the less chance of bugs that break things. A mod for creating "ambiance" probably shouldn't do anything else.

But. This is tpw's baby so while we all have preferences the mod should do what he wants it to!

BTW. Latest update is great tpw :-) IT is good to civvies wearing a good range of clothing!

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New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

===================================================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account on Armaholic.

This means in the future you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

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If we have opfor doing a mortar strike in a town we don't want it to end if civvies get blown up!

Of course not. Which is why it's been part of the consideration/conversation since the beginning. These setting choices are already in the mod;

4 = maximum squad inflicted civ casualties

50 = max total casualties

Squad inflicted vs overall.

Seriously, the more you know about what's already gone into this, the less scary it becomes. That concern of yours has already been covered, and a config menu exists for you to set as you wish.

Someone suggested tpw set it to OFF (and/or super high numbers) by default, so that you have to opt-IN, instead of opt-OUT, and of course I have no problem with that at all.

And sure, the less complicated a mod is, the less chance of buggerin' stuff up. Same applies to every script / mod on these forums. In some cases however, it just seems like some are simply meant to work together, rather than a mission maker using 10 or more mods/scripts every time he creates a mission. Sometimes some things just seem natural to be combined.

And BTW - commandeering a civ vehicle is certainly a behavior that could alter mission also. What if the mission design did not intend for you to have a vehicle available at a certain stage of the mission? Sometimes the design of the mission is to have you on foot for a period of time. Just sayin' is all. Maybe the take-away here is that the mod is evolving beyond it's original scope of simply seeing a few people walk or drive by. Isn't that also an option that the Chef has available to him?

Edited by R.Flagg
i like the sound of my own voice

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Spawning empty cars is doable, but can be tricky. I don't know if you remember the alpha releases when there was an ambient civilian module, but you could pretty much guarantee that it would spawn cars into houses and they'd explode.

What if it was based on a predetermined waypoint system instead then? If it'd realistically work, I'd be willing to volunteer some time pouring through the towns, figuring out where cars 'should' go.

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Of course not. Which is why it's been part of the consideration/conversation since the beginning. These setting choices are already in the mod;

4 = maximum squad inflicted civ casualties

50 = max total casualties

But thats why casualtie death should end a mission. Mortar strike on a town where civilian live is horrible wrong! Therefor is infantrie needed to strike precise and not bomb down the hole town.

There should be a area in the mission tagged to be civ free so none of them spawn there, only enemys.

MyQ:

How it works if you drive only trough a city with maximum speed of fly by a helicopter max speed?

Btw again: Great mod! thx for your work! I read that you dont play multiplayer, but a dedi version would be awesome or better: Headless Client ;)

Edited by Numrollen

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