Armor Improvement System (AIS)

[bakerman 247]

Hey Numrollen, thank you for the effort, but testing is not needed on this current version.

I've got a rather big update in the works that I'll be testing later today, it's so big that I may have to rename this mod, until the new version is out please consider the current version obsolete.

[DaViSFiT 21]

Oh okay. We had some Basic.cfg Problems tonight and i needed to tune them, didnt have time to test much. so i wait for your next Version. We only tested without your mod and hmm strange hit boxes are on the vehicles ;)

really looking for your mod ;)

[bakerman 247]

List of new features.

Completed:

- Renamed all weapons and magazines

- New values for weapon range, rate of fire, recoil etc

- New ammo types inc explosive incendiary, overpressure, airburst, fragmentation, subsonic, canister etc

- Subsonic projectiles travel in water, the water is no longer a shield

- Infrared tracers, infrared flares, infrared smoke

- Custom effects for new ammo types

- New improved trophy APS

- UV reactive glass

- Projectile environment interaction, aka wind and bullets

- Civilians now panic in battle

WIP:

- Renaming all vehicles and magazines

- New vehicle variants

- New weapons on vehicles, like a coax mg on the black eagle

- New engines, transmissions and physx values for vehicles

- Exhaust smoke screen configured for every vehicle

- Blast fragmentation

- Reworking some of the particle effects that look stupid

- New IR & radar jamming

- Vehicle environment interaction, aka flying helicopters in the wind

- New helicopter crashes

- Airburst smoke rounds for vehicles

- Fancy new rain effects

- New grenade types like concussion, cs, flash etc

- New cannon sounds for tanks :mad:

- New FCS for tanks

The WIP items will have to stay WIP for a while because I'm also working on the ARMScor mod.

Let me know if you guys would like the items I've done so far or if you would rather want to wait for everything to be done to get the full experience.

[kremator 1064]

Ooooohh sounds GOOD !

[pulstar 55]

Any idea if this affects MBT's imported via AiA? At any rate this addon sounds very promising. Keep up the good efforts!

[bakerman 247]

No, but I guess one could create a config to use AIS for the imported A2 content. I never play with AiA so I don't really know.

Oh I forgot to add that the Chappia Rhino 60DS, known as the Zubr ingame, now uses the .357 magnum round. I'm actually surprised that BI didn't config a new ammo type for the Zubr, because it took me less than a minute to config the ammo, the magazine and the gun.

[Drongo69 117]

That all sounds very interesting, especially the jamming stuff. The default Arma 3 vehicles feel about 50 years out of date, maybe BIS can learn a few things from you.

[ziiip 1]

Excellent mod, thanks for your work.

Btw, I think you should release the stuff thats been completed so far.

Edited November 16, 2013 by ziiip

[heavygunner 179]

Awesome thanks!

Will there be a possibility that you can turn off some features? All features are awesome but if you have JSRS and Blastcore these wouldn't be compatible with your mods or?

And is this still compatible with TMR after the value changes etc.?

[lordprimate 159]

OHHH yea, release the kraken!

[bakerman 247]

@Heavygunner

AIS is modular, so you can delete the modules you don't like, much like TMR or JSRS etc. I've changed everything except for the class names, so the stock game and any mod referencing them will still work. Compatibility with JSRS is 100%, I don't know about Blastcore since it's not out yet but there shouldn't be a problem. TMR is compatible with AIS, the one just overrides the other's weapon values depending on which one was loaded first, but non conflicting modules like TMR's launchers & 2D scopes will work, the same goes for my other modules.

[hieronymus 10]

First of all, its very nice to see someone tackling this problem, the lack of APS on the 2030th tanks has bothered me for a long time, so I thank you.

I have a few questions though.

1. Why did you choose Trophy? It is indeed currently installed on Merkava tanks, but its not the best system out there even now, it cannot engage tank rounds, and has a reload delay (as a consequence it can be defeated by RPG-30 and similar weapons). German AMAP ADS does not have these disadvantages, and is just as reliable. I think its very likely that by 2035 Merkava will have even better active protection than AMAP, so its reasonable to replace Trophy with something more advanced and up to date.

My friend with whom I frequently discuss ArmA matters says it can make tanks too hard to destroy, but I think it actually adds to the overall combat intensity. From what I can understand the only way do reliably defeat ADS nowadays is to shoot active protection panels/installations with a bunch of .50 cal or even 20-30 mm shells and only then launch AT missile/rocket. It encourages teamwork, and makes HMG trucks worth something against heavy armor. (Though American Quick Kill is flush mounted and thus impervious to this approach. And is also too slow for APFSDS with its redirecting missiles.. I digress.)

2. Are you planning to add other types of armor, like slat armor? Its lack is disappointing too.

3. What types of tank rounds you are planning to add, if any? Top attack munition maybe? Slammer should at least be able to launch missiles.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Hieronymus

[bakerman 247]

Here's a teaser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-1LXPDBSKo

Hi Hieronymus, welcome to the forums.

1. I chose the Trophy because it's already modeled ingame on the Merkava Mk4. I have other APS system that are still WIP and will be released in time.

2. I want to, but I'm only one guy working on this and and this is my first mod.

3. Lots

[hieronymus 10]

Then I'm patiently looking forward to the next Update.

I only wonder why few people seem to be bothered with Arma 3 tanks being functionally 40 years old.

[mikey74 168]

looks good!! :)

[DaViSFiT 21]

@Hieronymus: Arma3 is no "future", everthing is 2013 stuff ingame. Only the game text tells us its 2035 and thats nothing for we need tanks that can avoid everything. But of course some better protection than smoke is need and thats why Bakerman build this great mod.

@Bakerman: hehe the more your mod gets audience, the more people will hammer you :P The new feature list is wow! Will try the next version and report asap with my mates.

Some ideas from me for the future (idk how much work this is or if its possible, so sorry)

- more torque for the track vehicle. Its a pain to drive with 40kmh around and 6kmh uphill.

- thermal image is too strong. there should me more interference (take a look @ BWMod for Arma2 e.g.)

- some info sound that the tank/vehicle is locked on from enemy (laser detection?)

- bigger view for the driver, GPS/map while turned in and and other stuff/idea that can make the drivers job a bit more complex. (also@first idea)

- Commander can give some sort of info to Gunner or/and driver like a hot spot zone / marker in their Field of view. Hard to explain.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Numrollen

[hieronymus 10]

What I suggested does not make AFVs invincible, there is no such thing. Tougher tanks ask for more complex tactics and more advanced equipment. These things are absent too, along with active protection, and wait for someone capable to mod them. Even systems like Javelin are absent!

By the time RPG-42 (that is CSAT equipment) enters the scene, modern RPG-30 (specifically developed to defeat Trophy) will be obsolete.

Promising armor designs will still be defeated by more sophisticated AT measures. Both will make Arma experience more intense.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Hieronymus

[bakerman 247]

APS and advanced missiles are lacking in the game because they have to be extensively scripted, which is a far from perfect solution. With the APS it took me a long time to figure something out that will work every time with reasonable performance. If this was a professional project under my lead I would have scrapped the APS and focused on stuff that's more important. The same goes for virtually every module I'm working on. Do you really need UV reactive glasses to look at the airburst round being deflected by an APS? NO! But it looks cool so why not. I'm letting BI focus on the core of the game while I do some fun stuff.

[bakerman 247]

I find this utterly hilarious. As far as I can tell by searching around nobody has noticed the Drozd-2/M sitting on the T-100. I assume that everybody (including myself) just thought that this was a smoke launcher, meanwhile it is the launcher for the Drozd-2/M APS.

Picture of the Drozd-2/M on the T-100. Notice the 120° angle.

Picture of the Drozd-1 on a T-55AD. Notice the 60° angle.

[hieronymus 10]

I have a feeling Bohemia is going to make these APS models operational in the next big update, since Surive didn't have any place for real tank action, and Adapt most likely will. Hopefully other improvements are coming. I just checked armor performance of both tanks, and apparently top armor is just as tough as front. I knew it was inconsistent, but thats just ridiculous!

PS How the hell does this Drozd system repel attacks from different angles with countermeasures installed in this manner? Are they changing directions? Or do they rotate, like Zaslon's rods?

Edited November 19, 2013 by Hieronymus

[JamesSaga 1]

It dosnt, it was only 60 degrees in which ever direction the turret was facing.

[bakerman 247]

I think active protection is something that was on that mega list of features back when ARMA3 was supposed to be something different. I highly doubt that they will include it in the next DLC, a massive maybe for the DLC after that. I don't think people really realize just how unfinished the tanks are in their current state. There's so much missing content and the stuff we do have is filled with copy + paste, for example the M2A1 and the T-100 is virtually identical config wise. There's also inherent problems with the models and physx, I still need to create a few tickets for everything. I hope that once the new mod tools are out that it would be possible to fix some of the problems without the need to script solutions.

The Drozd-1 is limited to a 60° arc relative to the turret, the Drozd-2 is limited to 120°. The system is very limited, it relies purely on its 107mm explosive warheads. Each set only covers a 40° (20° for D1) section in-front of the turret, once those charges are used there's a hole in the defenses. To cover an open section the turret has to turn and line up a different set to react to the threat, the same goes for threats from the rear or side. So it's far from perfect, it also has a elevation limit of 20°, but according to official soviet stats the Drozd-1 was pretty effective vs RPGs. Another problem is that like Quick Kill it has the problem of its relatively big shrapnel filled blast damaging nearby soft-skin vehicles and infantry.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Bakerman

[hieronymus 10]

If they introduce significant changes in the 3rd DLC rather than 2nd, its going to be pretty awkward, since the tanks will wildly differ in performance in different parts of the same campaign.

Isn't Drozd a considerable downgrade from Arena APS then? The latter is not too different from Trophy. Whoever put Drozd on T-100 didn't have enough sleep that day.

I think the future of APS is in explosively formed penetrators, like AMAP. The future of AT means probably lies in that direction too. Something like top attacking EFP after an extreme diving maneuver..

Edited November 20, 2013 by Hieronymus

[Damian90 696]

Isn't Drozd a considerable downgrade from Arena APS then?

No, because in Soviet Union there were different APS projects. There was a "Drozd-1" and "Drozd-2", there was a "Dozdh" (Rain) which later evolved in independent Ukraine to new "Zaslon" (shield) APS, and there was Russian "Arena". All of these projects worked on different principles.

The latter is not too different from Trophy.

"Arena" is very different from "Trophy". "Arena" uses shrapnels of exploding cassettes to neutralize threats, "Trophy" uses MEFP charges.

Whoever put Drozd on T-100 didn't have enough sleep that day.

Why? Actually "Drozd-2" was considered as effective, and there were projects to expand it's capabilities by just installing more launchers around the turret.

I think the future of APS is in explosively formed penetrators, like AMAP.

AMAP-ADS do not use EFP charges, but something completely different.

The future of AT means probably lies in that direction too. Something like top attacking EFP after an extreme diving maneuver..

No, because EFP's have low penetration capabilities, this is why such warheads aren't very popular. Tandem HEAT warheads are more effective in top attack ATGM's, this is why future lies in ATGM's like "Javelin" or "Spike".

Another problem is that like Quick Kill it has the problem of its relatively big shrapnel filled blast damaging nearby soft-skin vehicles and infantry.

This is a problem with all APS systems, do not believe in advertisements of manufacturers that say "danger smaller than 1%". Truth is that both APS and exploding HEAT warhead creates a lot of shrapnel, besides this APS can actually initiate warhead so shaped charge jet will start to be formed, in such case vehicle still needs enough armor protection to stop fragmented jet.

[hieronymus 10]

I am obviously not a specialist in tanks and related stuff.

1. About Drozd. Projects may have existed, but as you see additional launchers are not installed. Drozd still has huge blind zones, and more appear as it spends countermeasures since it cannot reload. I also doubt it can provide any protection against APFSDSs, perform well against RPG-30 (and Javelin is a sure kill). Trophy eliminates most of these disadvantages, AMAP takes care of all (though I imagine its the most expensive protection).

2. Wikipedia says Trophy uses a bunch of metal pellets to intercept threats. Some military papers assert it uses a narrow stream of metal fragments too. If it is the case, then its (somewhat) similar to Arena.

2. AMAP does not specify what countermeasures they use. Its not really an EFP it seems. But you can read an interesting article on gizmag about AMAP-ADS, where the author tries to figure out how exactly it works. Its about Rheinmetal live tests. I wouldn't say its modus operandi is completly different.

4. Not popular against tougher armor. Roof armor is hopelessly outmatched. I thought that since APSs track incoming projectiles and determine whether they're going to miss or not, a valid tactic would be to make your missile delibirately miss by some meters, and when its directly above the tank very quickly rotate the warhead downwards (kinda like Quick Kill) and shoot an EFP. They say EFPs perform better over long distances, thats why I thought about them first.

Anything moving slower than KE penetrator and has to connect is going to be shot down by APSs regardless of angle, if they continue to develop as they do. You have to be both far enough to not trigger APS early and close enough to avoid deterioration of the stream. EFPs seem suitable.

PS Though as I suggested the more accessible approach is to just shoot the tank with a heavy MG to damage radars, countermeasures, reload mechanism etc, and then just shoot rpg-29 repeatedly.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Hieronymus