Armor Improvement System (AIS)

[shiftysean 21]

oow man, just right off the bat, 3 CSAT at rifleman vs me in a few vehicles. Kuma after 1 shot had us all disembarking already, second shot killed the tank (along with us). any less than a mbt like ifv's and apc's are almost all red in 1 hit from the HEAT rounds.

Using your trophy simulation increased the survivability of the Merkava tenfold :p 3 shots were shrugged off before all 3 at rifleman started firing in sync (thus negating the APS). Started of with a broken turret and gun, followed by a firefight of my disembarked crewmen vs the csat soldiers.

So the HEAT is an enormously powerfull tool now against even the heaviest armor. Realism side of me likes it very much (I hate having to always be an AT rifleman because my AI friends can't seem to kill tanks unless there's already 6 casualties and 5 rockets fired at a MBT). The balancing side of it though... 1 AT rifleman is in pretty much every squad, usually more, which would make being in an ifv, mrap, mbt a nightmare for any player at that point :p.

An APS for all types of armor would (as seen on the merkava) really help with this.

Just my 2 cents for a quick 10min test. Really digging all the nice stuff you're coming up with Bakerman. Don't know if there's a ticket for your suggestion, but with a link, you've got yourself another vote.

[bakerman 247]

Thanks, I'm glad you like it.

I've been messing around with the HEAT damage but it still needs a lot of tweaking. I actually made it much more powerful than it should be for the test version. The reason being I had Titan/Spike ATGMs fired at the front of a Merkava and it nearly did nothing, due to non sufficient penetration (rated at 700mm RHA) and the steep angle of the front hull. You kind of expect it to be this powerful so it's OK I guess, but until I give you top-attack mode on the Spike it will have to be OP.

A major problem I've ran into is a penetrating hit in the engine will 1 shot a vehicle, because they blow up when engine damage goes critical. Something else I need to work on I guess. :confused:

No ticket yet. I would like to test more and get some feedback before I bug the devs.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Bakerman

[shiftysean 21]

Merkava has the engine in the front though (don't know if that's modelled as such). Reason irl for that is to offer even greater protection to the crew, so I guess damaging the front irl is hard aswell (or atleast downright destroy the entire tank), so in a way it's not strange ingame to be a beast at the front.

I'm guessing irl an engine won't blow the entire tank up :p But if the engine is a weakspot now, that means the front would be more vulnerable than the back for easy kills for the merkava.

Times like these I wish I could script or mod for arma... would really like to help on more then a play test basis :p

[bakerman 247]

The Merkava has the engine at the front yes, but it's behind a thick wall of composite armor so it's pretty safe. The rear is not as well armored, especially that hatch behind which all of the secondary ammo sits, so I would never go reversing into battle with a Merkava. The engine engine blowing up is more of a problem with light vehicles such as MRAPs. Play testers are crucial considering that many addon makers such as myself rarely play the game.

[vengeance1 50]

Bakerman,

Good stuff! I see an error on test download that looks like it is missing an AIS_Launchers folder? AIS_Launchers\Function\fn_addTrackingEvents.sqf was that intended?

[bakerman 247]

Thanks for letting me know. I have edited the piece of code that may have been causing that. The download link has been updated.

[DaViSFiT 21]

Hehe im still very excited about a new AIS version :P

[CyclonicTuna 87]

I get an error: Include file userconfig\Baked_AIS\Baked_AIS.hpp not found.

[bakerman 247]

Please delete the old mod folder and try again, hopefully that will solve it.

[CyclonicTuna 87]

Please delete the old mod folder and try again, hopefully that will solve it.

Nope, already tried that.

---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

Oh, nervermind solved it. Apparently Arma 3 Sync doesn't automatically install userconfig files.

[brians200 51]

If I create an explosion using createVehicle, does it create fragmentation? For example,

"Bo_GBU12_LGB_MI10" createVehicle someposition

I feel like this could really make my IED script more deadly.

[bakerman 247]

@CyclonicTuna

I'm glad it's working now. :) Let me know what you think once you've tested it.

@brians200

Fragmentation is enabled for GBUs and it is very deadly, unfortunately fragmentation only occurs when a weapon has been fired.

If you would like to enable fragmentation for ammunition created with scripts you can use this piece of code.

bomb = "Bo_GBU12_LGB_MI10" createVehicle someposition; 
[player, '', '', '', "Bo_GBU12_LGB_MI10", '', bomb] call AIS_fnc_firedFrag;

Edited January 15, 2014 by Bakerman
Broken code changed

[Cel.Geoffry 1]

Congratulations to the editors, we were really in need of this system in armored, as the Bohemia creates the armored pretty basic ...

[brians200 51]

@brians200

Fragmentation is enabled for GBUs and it is very deadly, unfortunately fragmentation only occurs when a weapon has been fired.

If you would like to enable fragmentation for ammunition created with scripts you can use this piece of code.

bomb = "Bo_GBU12_LGB_MI10" createVehicle someposition;
[player, "Bo_GBU12_LGB_MI10", bomb] call AIS_fnc_firedFrag;

How can I check if your mod is present before calling AIS_fnc_firedFrag? To help keep errors to a minimum

I am still not seeing any fragmentation. Looking in the function viewer, you have this check at the beginning of that function. Perhaps I need to feed it more information?

if ((count _this) < 6) exitWith {};

Edited January 15, 2014 by brians200

[bakerman 247]

Doh! Sorry about that, I completely gave you the wrong code. :o I hope this works.

bomb = "Bo_GBU12_LGB_MI10" createVehicle someposition;
[player, '', '', '', "Bo_GBU12_LGB_MI10", '', bomb] call AIS_fnc_firedFrag;  

This version is really just a test version, in the final version there will be global variables you can check to see which module is active. :)

[brians200 51]

I still can't see any fragmenting from the scripted explosion like I can from the hand grenade. I have taken MY particle effects out and still can't see it, but maybe it is working. I will let you decide.

//this is the first iteration of the loop.
_explosive = "Bo_GBU12_LGB_MI10";
_bomb = _explosive createVehicle _iedPosition;
[player, '','','', _explosive,'',_bomb] call AIS_fnc_firedFrag;

[bakerman 247]

I'm sorry I couldn't help you out, but again please understand this is just a testing version. I will however write a easy to use function specifically for scripted ammo. I will release it soon. :)

[CyclonicTuna 87]

@CyclonicTuna

I'm glad it's working now. :) Let me know what you think once you've tested it.

Well its really cool that someone has taken it upon themselves to actually give those little turrets on the tanks a function. I was just wondering, the T100 doesn't seem to have the APS system, is that still a WIP? Furthermore, I'm using blatscore and I the effects are a little lacking. Infact it seems I only get the explosion of the APS projectile but not actually the incoming projectile. Don't know if this is something you can fix.

Lastly, perhaphs you've already seen it but this looks pretty interesting: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?171586-Real-Armor-Mod

Could a little intergration/teamwork and modding crossover be an idea?

Other than that this looks very promesing, keep it up! :D

[bakerman 247]

I was just wondering, the T100 doesn't seem to have the APS system, is that still a WIP?

"...early test version of the fragmentation and penetration modules so that people can play around with it"

The version I uploaded some days ago is just a test version of those 2 modules, nothing else is included, meaning no APS module. The APS module you are using at the moment is obsolete and is not supported by me anymore, but it is 100% open for anybody to edit.

Furthermore, I'm using blatscore and I the effects are a little lacking. Infact it seems I only get the explosion of the APS projectile but not actually the incoming projectile. Don't know if this is something you can fix.

The trophy APS does not detonate the incoming warhead, but rather disables it, so it's something I won't change.

Lastly, perhaphs you've already seen it but this looks pretty interesting: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?171586-Real-Armor-Mod

Could a little intergration/teamwork and modding crossover be an idea?

Already done, we've been talking on his previous thread and via messages, cooperation is crucial to give you guys the best experience. :)

Other than that this looks very promesing, keep it up! :D

Thank you, I will try to keep it up!

[DaViSFiT 21]

Baker do you know the armor values of A3 tanks and apcs? i cant find them. also who have passive protection system in vanilla, who the most stopping power and so on with the 120mm? Is there somewhere a information post? Only data i found was this but not very up2date and mission some infos ;) Only thing that will be fixed are some wrong armor placement of the Kuma tank and with the longer barrel he will make more damage then the others. but dont know when this will happen.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AozOocojp0NxdFl3N1hKOTJZN1FfYThBckVsMTBPNVE

edit: Kuma fixed on dev, hm hope this comes out soon.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?149636-Development-Branch-Changelog&p=2604904&viewfull=1#post2604904

Edited January 22, 2014 by Numrollen

[bakerman 247]

I try to use real world information and I have some numbers, of course I can't confirm the info and I always take it with a large pinch of salt. Military specs are often meant to deceive. I have yet to seriously look into the thickness of APC & IFV armor, but the IFVs in A3 have some serious armor for light vehicles. Here's some frontal armor numbers for tanks:

T-80UM2 Black Eagle

Gun = 125mm 2A46M?, AP(~350-700) depending on loader + ATGM(~600-850) depending on missile

Glacis = ~600-900 (KE) ~1000-1600(CE)

Turret = ~900-1100 (KE) ~1500-1700 (CE)

Merkava Mk4

Gun = IMI MG253 L44, AP(~600-800) + ATGM(~700-800)

Glacis = ~600-800 (KE) ~900(CE) + Engine ???

Turret = ~800-1000(KE) ~1000-1300 (CE)

Leopard 2A4 Revolution

Gun = Rheinmetall L55, AP(~600-800) + ATGM(~700-800)

Glacis = ~600-800(KE) ~800-900 (CE)

Turret = ~1000-1500(KE) ~1200-1700(CE)

All of the ammo in A3 will have a really hard time penetrating the frontal armor of these tanks, which are some of the best armored vehicles in the world. Even with the most modern and dense APFSDS rounds you will have to aim very carefully. Interestingly all of the tanks are able to fire ATGMs from the muzzle, extending their range and penetration beyond any AP round, with top-attack mode it would be possible for these tanks to "1hit" each other.

In other news the new AIS penetration module is working wonderfully combined with Olds' Real Armor Mod. I'm still tweaking the values, but I've gotten it very close to realistic. :bounce3:

[maturin 12]

Where did you get those numbers? I've never seen any rha estimates for tank that are larger than those in Steel Beasts Pro Pe, and none of their KE estimated reach 1000mm. 1500mm is especially WTF, and the no one has even the slightest clue about the Black Eagle.

Also, the max damage for all those KE rounds beat the min rating for the armor, so penetration is a possibility. Does your mod reflect that?

[bakerman 247]

@maturin

You really need to learn how to deal with things you don't agree with.

[maturin 12]

Err... so you made them up? I thought you were using sources, but if you made them up, that's all you have to say, instead of suddenly getting defensive.

[bakerman 247]

I think you have this the wrong way around. If you disagree with something, then you give the info with sources, best of all if you strongly disagree you're also free to create your own mod. I was expecting one or two people to look at my post without fully reading it and reply as fast as their fingers could type and you won first prize.