Armor Improvement System (AIS)

[Damian90 697]

@Bakerman

May I suggest something? I was thinking about user friendliness of your great mod. So it might be possible to give more options in user config? For example the number of countermeassures for different APS's, and a some sort of command line for each APS, where we can add a desired vehicle to be equipped with such type of APS?

[bakerman 247]

Hey Damian90 thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately the current version which you can download is very obsolete. So I'm not going to update it, but anybody is free to use the code and do whatever. The next update will introduce a variety of different systems with realistic ammo capacity configured for each vehicle, this means that the new version won't have a userconfig.

[Damian90 697]

Thanks for the info, so waiting for the release. :)

May I ask, what will be the countermeassures (ammo) capacity for Trophy used in Slammer? I assume more than it was in older versions.

[CyclonicTuna 87]

This is really cool but the APS seems a little overpowered to me. Maybe if you introduce something like that, you should also add some way for infantry to defeat or bypass that system, bucause right now it seems that a specialized misslesquad needs at least 4 missles to defeat an enemy threat. I don't know, just seems a little unfair to me.

Maybe you could introduce somekind of targeting system that tells the missle specialist where to aim and when to fire to increase the chance of hitting the target. You know, kind of like the javelin gives you mutliple options in terms of angle of attack etc.

I think you should also take into considiration the multitidue of munitions that might be used against tanks and armored vehicles. A Maverick missle is gonna be a lot harder to stop than a Titan AT missle, then you got Jdams and GBU's and all this stuff that's got diffrent values when it comes to defeating armor.

[bakerman 247]

The ammo count for the ASPRO-A is pretty much classified as far as I can tell. If it's not then please tell me. Hopefully once I hear from a Mr IDF Soldier I might get a hint. The rest is easy, the LEDS-150 has space for 6 (of various ammo types) and the DROZD & Iron Fist has space for 2 per launcher.

@CyclonicTuna

Expect the APS not to be godlike in its powers to stop all munitions. C-APS will be present don't worry. But there are some really good systems out there that can defeat almost anything. The king of speed is the AMAP, but it has very short range so like you mentioned a GBU will demolish it. The king of range is the LEDS with Mongoose-3, it can intercept just about anything including bombs at up to 300m, but it is a lot slower than the AMAP. What I'm getting at is every APS has a its downsides, which will be represented in game, so you'll have to figure out what works against what system. Maybe damaging the components of the system will work, who knows... ;)

Edited December 26, 2013 by Bakerman

[lo0se 10]

the new version won't have a userconfig.

Disappointed to hear this. I would really urge you to consider having a user config to control which type of vehicle/which faction has APS.

I have made several mission for myself & friends to has taken advantage of the previous ability to strengthen and weaken friendly/hostile vehicles since you implemented it into the user config.

[bakerman 247]

I'm sorry to hear that you are disappointed, but please understand that this is a brand new mod I'm working on with a small team of passionate people and it is fully modular. You can pick and mix the modules as you please. Unfortunately I cannot provide a userconfig with the functionality you are requesting. The systems (with models this time) are configured specifically for each vehicle in a very time consuming manner, and remember that some systems are not compatible with some vehicles due to size and weight constraints. When placing a unit in the editor you'll be able to choose the vanilla vehicle or one with upgrades. I hope you have a better picture of what I'm working on? :confused:

I kindly ask you to please wait until the new version is out, once you get it and there's an issue I will try my best to fix it. :)

[Damian90 697]

@Bakerman

As for ASPRO-A, I know such method might not be perfect, but ammo count can be estimated by comparing the countermeassure size and storage container size. Looking at the photos of the real thing, I make a carefull assumption, that each storage container can hold minimum 10 to max 20-25 countermeassures. On avarage perhaps 15 per each side?

[bakerman 247]

We're already looking at it and debating the number. Remember that there's a pretty large loading mechanism in that box.

[maturin 12]

Expect the APS not to be godlike in its powers to stop all munitions. C-APS will be present don't worry. But there are some really good systems out there that can defeat almost anything. The king of speed is the AMAP, but it has very short range so like you mentioned a GBU will demolish it. The king of range is the LEDS with Mongoose-3, it can intercept just about anything including bombs at up to 300m, but it is a lot slower than the AMAP. What I'm getting at is every APS has a its downsides, which will be represented in game, so you'll have to figure out what works against what system. Maybe damaging the components of the system will work, who knows... ;)

I could find precious little info on any of those systems. Do you have any sources handy? Especially for Mongoose-3.

[bakerman 247]

Mongoose-3 information is very hard to find because it's still relatively new I guess. You can check out this PDF brochure from Denel Dynamics for info on it. Here's a news article mentioning the Mongoose-3 (they incorrectly call it the Mongoose-4). Article Link

The rest is pretty easy to find. Just google AMAP-ADS and you'll get a bunch of results including nice videos.

[bakerman 247]

Here's another short clip. This time showcasing fragmentation on M67 and 40mm HE ammo. If you look really closely you might notice some new ambient effects I added, but it's difficult to spot in this video so look closely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkbSFByUtBg

It's really a game changer, HE and especially HE-F 125mm rounds are very effective against infantry. :cool:

[gliptal 25]

Bakerman, will the mod be released here on this thread or in a new one? Keep up the good work!

Yay!

[pulstar 55]

does the T100 have any sort of Shtora implementation in the vanila A3?

[bakerman 247]

@Gliptal

Will be released here in this thread.

@Pulstar

Not really. It has smoke grenades and a laser warning system which is part of Shtora, but then again that's also part of the Drozd-2 system which is mounted on the Black Eagle.

I'm still deciding whether or not I should give the Black Eagle some form of ECM like a compact internal version of the EMT. I guess an EMP could be fun.

[pulstar 55]

I guess an EMP could be fun.

Do it do it do it! :clap:

[the.d 0]

Thanks for your work, Bakerman. Eagerly looking forward to the fragmentation module!

[DaViSFiT 21]

This could really a blast this mod. Only thing of course for tankers that i also wait for is that laser - range thing ACE2 had.

If you need beta tests backer, just say so :)

[bakerman 247]

Here's something I've been working on, improved penetration simulation for HEAT & HEIAP. :cool:

In stock A3 high explosive ammo with the ability to penetrate will explode on each impact after initial penetration, this is wrong! These ammo types should explode only during initial impact. With the new AIS module HEAT rounds disintegrate on contact, generating a hypersonic copper jet. The same is true for HEIAP/API ammo which disintegrates on impact, leaving only the subcaliber penetrator.

What does this mean? Duel purpose ammunition now works as you would expect, the blast is deadly for infantry and the high penetration value destroys vehicles.

The effect is a bit too fast for a video so a image will have to do for now.;)

@The.D

Thanks for the kind words.:)

@Numrollen

New GUI and laser range finder, easy. Setting the gun elevation and lead distance for all of the new ammo types I've added, not easy. :(

Edited January 6, 2014 by Bakerman

[kremator 1065]

Hey Bakerman,

Have you had a look at how penetration is sorted in Iron Front? They have a pretty good simulation there. I'm not sure if they have used additional bits in the model or if it is just config values or even some fancy scripts but it is good!

[bakerman 247]

Yes I have looked at the game, although I have yet to look at the configs and scripts used because I don't own the game. The problem is though that I'm not sure if you can use WW2 style simulation for A3, thing are a lot different now with composite armor and long rod KE penetrators etc.

I have yet to try and really change the way armor itself behaves in game, but since I don't have access to the models there's not much I can do. This new HEAT & HEIAP simulation is possible due to a low impact projectile tracking script I've made and it already has a big impact on the way projectiles interact with armor. With it I can do a lot of stuff now that I previously thought were near impossible, so I will see how far I can take it.

[DaViSFiT 21]

the new BW Mod is out. they use some kind of "MUSS", take a look at it. its somehow random if the vehicle gets hit and the Puma must be logged in to counter. Would be cool with your mod to find a good compatibility

[bakerman 247]

I checked it out but I don't know if I'm missing something? It works exactly like the the stock countermeasures as far as I can tell. :confused:

[bakerman 247]

I made this post today in another thread and I thought that I should release an early test version of the fragmentation and penetration modules so that people can play around with it.

You also need to take the explosive, indirectHit and indirectHitRange values into consideration. A high explosive value coupled with a high hit value ignores armor, for example a RPG-32 which has 650mm RHA penetration IRL will cause major damage to the front of a MBT due to the high hit and explosive combo, when it should do almost nothing if penetration is not achieved. The other major issue is that adding a caliber value to explosives results in exploding rounds that penetrate objects and explodes every single time on contact. I made a post about this problem here with a possible solution.

The mod I made solves this issue reasonably well by changing the RPG-32 (with HEAT) into a two stage duel purpose round. In the first stage the RPG explodes on contact with a high explosive and low hit value. In the second stage the copper jet is formed with a high hit, high caliber (penetration) and a zero explosive value. With the mod enabled RPGs will do close to zero damage to non-critical parts of a tank from the front, however a RPG will penetrate any low armor sections. In other words the RPG will only do damage if it can penetrate the armor which is exactly like it should be.

Another issue that is solved with the mod is HE ammo. High explosive fragmenting rounds should have some penetrating ability right? So the ammunition is once again given two stage treatment. The round disintegrates upon impact with zero penetration and with high explosive & hit values, then in the second stage fragments are formed which do not explode but can penetrate objects. So with the mod HE ammo explodes only once but can still penetrate light armor.

Bohemia can solve this issue with an easy fix. We already have the ShotDeployBase and SubmunitionBase classes which allows ammo to change characteristics in-flight and upon impact. If they improve ShotDeployBase to inherit the velocity of the parent ammo then we can have proper duel stage ammo without the need for a mod with complex tracking scripts.

TL;DR Adding this one class inheritance to ShotDeployBase can drastically improve the game. A3 has had good armor and the penetration simulation all along. All we need is proper simulation of certain ammo types and we are good to go.

Download (requires CBA3)

Edited January 11, 2014 by Bakerman

[wolfgarth 74]

Excited to test:)