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mlewis1969

BattlEye: make it work for the common gamer

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Battleye is not catching people that remotely inject (admins should be the only ones allowed to do this) scripts into the server and the server does not blocking them. Server-side event blocking is failing why? No one knows how to make their own filters and there are too many missions/mods being made to keep up with. People should not be asked to create their own filters in the first place. Why even create a game with a trojan horse back door, this should have been addressed a long time ago. Now I guess BI will say "they don't have the time to address this" (now that I've spent my money) and I'll be chastised in there forums. BI's credibility is at stake here...

I fully agree with you. The problem lies in the fact that the old createUnit function with a vehicle init parameter and MP event handlers, which both transmit code for execution to all clients, shouldn't exist in the first place. In fact, for my missions, I have [5 ""] set for mpEventHandler.txt, remoteControl.txt, and remoteExec.txt. I wish I could include those in the public filters I released, but I'm sure it would create false positives for many missions.

BI made ARMA with some sort of "all users are trusted" philosophy, which isn't appropriate for competitive environments, another thing that BI underestimates. They could fix this by making a proper client-server architecture for scripts that doesn't rely on publicVariable functions, which can be intercepted and manipulated by any malicious user. In fact, I was kinda deceived when I realized BIS_fnc_MP also used public variables. I thought it was some sort of native RPC method, but boy was I wrong.

On the bright side, apparently the introduction of BattlEye seems to have broken one the main method that scriptkiddies used to inject scripts in the game, and hack coders are worried because all filters other than scripts.txt are now handled by the server (they weren't before?).

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I fully agree with you. The problem lies in the fact that the old createUnit function with a vehicle init parameter and MP event handlers, which both transmit code for execution to all clients, shouldn't exist in the first place. In fact, for my missions, I have [5 ""] set for mpEventHandler.txt, remoteControl.txt, and remoteExec.txt. I wish I could include those in the public filters I released, but I'm sure it would create false positives for many missions.

BI made ARMA with some sort of "all users are trusted" philosophy, which isn't appropriate for competitive environments, another thing that BI underestimates. They could fix this by making a proper client-server architecture for scripts that doesn't rely on publicVariable functions, which can be intercepted and manipulated by any malicious user. In fact, I was kinda deceived when I realized BIS_fnc_MP also used public variables. I thought it was some sort of native RPC method, but boy was I wrong.

Yes, +10000! So glad to see someone else gets this.

BIS_fnc_MP should never have been added to the game in the first place. It was ridiculous that they continued adding broken functionality like this when it was evident before that this wasn't the way to go. (Honestly, props to whoever created that big hack issue a few months ago, as that has at least resulted in some security improvements.)

On the bright side, apparently the introduction of BattlEye seems to have broken one the main method that scriptkiddies used to inject scripts in the game, and hack coders are worried because all filters other than scripts.txt are now handled by the server (they weren't before?).

Everything other than scripts.txt has always been server-side.

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I was talking about the DayZ community (which is still part of the overall ArmA community) because that's where most of the hate is coming from. I don't feel like the majority of the more informed ArmA community hates BE.

theres a lot of people that hate BE and/or they consider it useless without coming from dayz mod. you dont need to come from dayz mod to make a speech of truth.

You aren't related to Marcus Prunell are you? Because I can't understand what the **** you are saying.

http://youtu.be/nf6oJ0KA4Ck?t=36s

it could be your fault, not mine. bad troll is bad.

cheers.

..........

Yes it means absolutely nothing, the number of users (well, keys) BE has caught cheating and banned means absolutely nothing about BE's effectiveness.

Are you even reading this shit?

as you said in a sarcastic way, yes, the number of bans and cheats detected by BE doesnt mean nothing if you dont make this number in relation with the number of people playing online. and even at that point we could argue if the number of people getting banned is high or low compared to the number of mp users. so yeah you completely right, unfortunately you have been sarcastic.

Well if you know that, then clearly you're very confused about BE's role and BE's feature set.

no i dont. here he comes with another bizarre assumption.

Good, make the stupid video. What is the point of it then? To show that someone was still able to cheat? Well of course, what do you expect? Do you expect an anti-anything (this applies everywhere: from virus to spam to cheats) to block EVERYTHING? It's not possible. What's important is that BE does block the majority of them, and certainly the most commonly available ones.

no sir, its not stupid at all. if i make a video showing the BE version and the battleye config. and i show in the video that the server ill'hack in is running BE and its not able to detect me, even with the correct script filters, youll have a clear proof at how BE sucks.

obviously at that point you won't have more theories to brings to defend BE...so i im just speculating on what you can come with to defend BIS games you brave white knights.

You still haven't proposed a solution to this problem if BE is so bad.

obviously, and i won't. its not my job to propose solution. my job finish at 4 pm and it doesnt start inside some cech BIS studio. im a customer, not a funboy.

i can see a problem, i post the problem i see on forum and ill'try to discuss about that. its up to someone else to find a solution. if not possible, sadly, i have to accept it.

BE is the best solution for the architeture of the game. unfortunately its not an efficient solution. and your white knight's defence typical of funboys will not help anyway.

Not even true. BE does a good job at detecting private/paid ones too.

totally disagree on that.

Perhaps he focused on DayZ filters because (as much as I hate to say this) DayZ was the most popular A2 mod? If you're going to invest resources in creating a filter set for certain missions/mods, is it not wise to start with the most popular one?

yes, and who cares? we were not speaking about dayz mod but about arma 2 and 3.

plus i already said i never plaed dayz mod for more than 10 hours so....

The real solution to this problem isn't the filters, it's to change the MP architecture. But that's a completely different issue and it's something only BI can do, not BE. The BE filters are the best possible solution under the current architecture.

which doesnt necessarily means that is a good solution.

I totally would have mistaken you for a DayZ player had your join date been somewhere around mid-2012 or later. :)

you made a lot of mistakes, im not surprised.

Yes, you (in your 20 dozen posts saying how bad BE is). And as for why? Because the issues with Arma's security model are _entirely_ BI's doings and fault. All BattlEye has done this entire time is go above and beyond with adding features to help with this, even going beyond what their actual responsibility is (which is detecting those external cheat programs).

nope. unfortunately seems you dont get the minimum amount of neurons to understand the point. BE is bad since the entire game architeture doesnt allow you to find a real, credibile and efficient solutions against cheaters. thats the problem of an open source game like these. which bring me to the conclusion that if BE is so bad its not entirely his fault.

Battleye is not catching people that remotely inject (admins should be the only ones allowed to do this) scripts into the server and the server does not blocking them. Server-side event blocking is failing why? No one knows how to make their own filters and there are too many missions/mods being made to keep up with. People should not be asked to create their own filters in the first place. Why even create a game with a trojan horse back door, this should have been addressed a long time ago. Now I guess BI will say "they don't have the time to address this" (now that I've spent my money) and I'll be chastised in there forums. BI's credibility is at stake here...

*

Edited by *LK1*

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totally disagree on that.

You can disagree as much as you want, but it's a fact that BE is better at detecting cheaters than PB/VAC. As people said before, you should be mad at BI, not at BE.

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Everything other than scripts.txt has always been server-side.

I dunno, one of the hack coders seems to imply it wasn't before :

So BE is all serverside now. Say goodbye to scripting everyone. atleast for a long. long time.

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as you said in a sarcastic way, yes, the number of bans and cheats detected by BE doesnt mean nothing if you dont make this number in relation with the number of people playing online. and even at that point we could argue if the number of people getting banned is high or low compared to the number of mp users.

so yeah you completely right, unfortunately you have been sarcastic.

So if we say there are 10,000 bans and 1,000,000 players online (I'm just throwing out random numbers; I don't know what the ban count is but the player count definitely isn't anywhere close to real!), what will you say: that means BE is ineffective or it means only around 1% of people tried to use a cheat?

no sir, its not stupid at all. if i make a video showing the BE version and the battleye config. and i show in the video that the server ill'hack in is running BE and its not able to detect me, even with the correct script filters, youll have a clear proof at how BE sucks.

I want to see that. I also want to see the mission name/version and your filter configs.

Maybe you have some cheat that is undetected (why not send the details to $able then?) but if your filters are configured properly (which will require some support from the mission; if the mission is doing retarded things like having a PVEH that executes arbitrary code, then no BE filtering will fix that) then it will be blocked.

obviously, and i won't. its not my job to propose solution. my job finish at 4 pm and it doesnt start inside BIS studio. im a customer, not a funboy.

i can see a problem, i post the problem i see on forum and ill'try to discuss about that. its up to someone else to find a solution. if not possible, sadly, i have to accept it.

You aren't exactly in a position to bitch about it if you are unable to make a better recommendation.

BE is the best solution for the architeture of the game. unfortunately its not an efficient solution. and your white knight's defence typical of funboys will not help anyway.

So then have you finally figured out that the architecture of the game is the actual problem? Then maybe you can assign the blame appropriately? (hint: BattlEye can't change that)

yes, and who cares? we were not speaking about dayz mod but about arma 2 and 3.

Were you not just bitching about BI not creating filter sets for enough mission/mod configurations?

which doesnt necessarily means that is a good solution.

And when have I disagreed with that? It's not a good solution but it's the only one possible with the current architecture, and BE is not in any position to change that architecture. Only BI can do that. So WTF are you blaming BE for?

nope. unfortunately seems you dont get the minimum amount of neurons to understand the point. BE is bad since the entire game architeture doesnt allow you to find a real, credibile and efficient solutions against cheaters. thats the problem of an open source game like these. which bring me to the conclusion that if BE is so bad its not entirely his fault.

So how the fuck is this BE's fault? Once again, you are blaming the wrong party.

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it could be your fault, not mine. bad troll is bad.

cheers.

Your going into the -IQ level now...

:hang:

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Since when are private cheat sites "first level" cheaters? It looks to me like you refuse to accept facts numerous users explained to you in this thread.

unlike you im honest. i dont have seens "facts" from both sides at the moment.

You can disagree as much as you want, but it's a fact that BE is better at detecting cheaters than PB/VAC. As people said before, you should be mad at BI, not at BE.

lol. tell me more about these facts. please.

however i never decide to compare vac and PB in my previous post. i consider a typical funboy battlefield fighting and arguing for which game has the best anti cheat-system.

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I dunno, one of the hack coders seems to imply it wasn't before :

That guy's an idiot just like all the other kids on that site. They are server-side and would have been bypassed in 5 minutes if they weren't (but they've been around for a year).

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i have enough, like you guys probably. i dont want to fight with white knights new comers who feels strong love for bis games cuz you remind me when i started and i was arguing with disappointed veterans pissed off for all the bugs and lacks of this series. youll'open your eyes in the next years problably. it happens at most of bis lovers.

however:

still waiting for some "fact" and "proof" that show how BE works good.

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Open my eyes? I have them wide open

Unlike you with honesty, I have a fact; Your a fucking moron.

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however:

still waiting for some "fact" and "proof" that show how BE works good.

100,000+ A2 bans is not enough proof for you?

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100,000+ A2 bans is not enough proof for you?
So if we say there are 10,000 bans and 1,000,000 players online (I'm just throwing out random numbers; I don't know what the ban count is but the player count definitely isn't anywhere close to real!), what will you say: that means BE is ineffective or it means only around 1% of people tried to use a cheat?

well, that's the problem. how can you say if an anti-cheat system works basing your judgement on the numbers of bans?

andrey: those 100.000+ bans are inclusive of dayz mod. we litterally had millions of players for it.

so that number is a good example of the BE efficiency?

Open my eyes? I have them wide open

Unlike you with honesty, I have a fact; Your a fucking moron.

he comes from da hood guys, watch out.

Edited by *LK1*

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well, that's the problem. how can you say if an anti-cheat system works basing your judgement on the numbers of bans?

Because that is evidence that BE is having some effect and detecting some things? In addition to that, you can actually, you know, play the game to see how prevalent the cheats are. Both will give you a pretty good feel for how BE is doing.

Also, if you want to talk about A2 for a minute - I feel pretty comfortable saying that the global bans there as well as the filters have significantly reduced cheating activity. (And I say this from a server admin perspective.)

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Because that is evidence that BE is having some effect and detecting some things?

some effect? yes sure, we are just trying to quantify this "some effect".

In addition to that, you can actually, you know, play the game to see how prevalent the cheats are. Both will give you a pretty good feel for how BE is doing.

it will give me a feel, thats right. if good or bad plz, let me stay out of it i dont want to argue wiht funboys again.

Also, if you want to talk about A2 for a minute - I feel pretty comfortable saying that the global bans there as well as the filters have significantly reduced cheating activity. (And I say this from a server admin perspective.)

have you ever been inside a warfare mission for oa and a2? do you hane an idea at how mission were interrupted restarted for some cheater?

almost every server runs battleye with constant update so the explanation for that it cant be just "eh, they forgot to update or they didnt used BE"...that's just a response to try to avoid the problem, instead to face it.

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some effect? yes sure, we are just trying to quantify this "some effect".

Some effect = I can go play A3 for a few hours and probably won't deal with any bullshit.

it will give me a feel, thats right. if good or bad plz, let me stay out of it i dont want to argue wiht funboys again.

Then quit posting.

have you ever been inside a warfare mission for oa and a2? do you hane an idea at how mission were interrupted restarted for some cheater?

almost every server runs battleye with constant update so the explanation for that it cant be just "eh, they forgot to update or they didnt used BE"...that's just a response to try to avoid the problem, instead to face it.

Yes, not only have I played Warfare for hundreds of hours in OA, I have also run WFBE on several occasions with a large public population. And while there was of course the occasional issue (easily handled), I can say that I, as an admin, was spending the vast majority of my time playing and not wasting time investigating things. Good enough for you?

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Maybe you have some cheat that is undetected (why not send the details to $able then?)

eh, hope this is not an accusation. isn't right?

You aren't exactly in a position to bitch about it if you are unable to make a better recommendation.

clearly i am, as a costumer.

So then have you finally figured out that the architecture of the game is the actual problem? Then maybe you can assign the blame appropriately? (hint: BattlEye can't change that)

i never said that BE is the problem itself. its just a crap obviously. but the mayor fault is the open source nature of bis games.

Were you not just bitching about BI not creating filter sets for enough mission/mod configurations?

yes... and what dayz mod has to do with that...

Yes, not only have I played Warfare for hundreds of hours in OA, I have also run WFBE on several occasions with a large public population. And while there was of course the occasional issue (easily handled), I can say that I, as an admin, was spending the vast majority of my time playing and not wasting time investigating things. Good enough for you?

we have played different games probably. im still speaking about arma 2, you know it right?

---------- Post added at 05:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 PM ----------

Some effect = I can go play A3 for a few hours and probably won't deal with any bullshit.

that's seems to be right, for arma 3..., i give you that.

keep in mind that the game is young and the real test will start this winter. for that period we will saw how efficient BE its.

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eh, hope this is not an accusation, isn't right?
no sir, its not stupid at all. if i make a video showing the BE version and the battleye config. and i show in the video that the server ill'hack in is running BE and its not able to detect me, even with the correct script filters, youll have a clear proof at how BE sucks.

obviously at that point you won't have more theories to brings to defend BE...so i im just speculating on what you can come with to defend BIS games you brave white knights.

--

i never said that BE is the problem itself. its just a crap obviously. but the mayor fault is the open source nature of bis games.
just a brief summary:

i said that BE sucks, basing my judgement on thousand of hours in mp. in servers running battleye.

you probably will say that: "those servers are not updated and bla bla bla". ok i could be wrong as you guys could. ill make a video on that.

i just would like to know, which is an easy question to be answered, how you guys came to the conclusion that BE works good.

because i litterally knows decades of players that could kill for a such statament.

--

yes... and what dayz mod has to do with that...

What _doesn't_ it have to do with that... you were bitching about them not creating filter configurations and it was pointed out that they did, for a pretty major mod?

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This is getting way out hand, people.

A: the thread is about making the BE filters more user friendly, not about how much BE supposedly sucks.

B: There are the Arma3 forums, not the Arma2 or DayZ forums.

Derailing the thread further will result in infractions and thread-bans.

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Why should anyone listen to the things you say? They don't have anything to do with this discussion. Maybe you should start a new thread entitled "****ed by Marcus Purnell"

You aren't related to Marcus Prunell are you? Because I can't understand what the **** you are saying.

http://youtu.be/nf6oJ0KA4Ck?t=36s

Cheers

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Everyone, stop the personal disputes and please keep the discussion on topic to the thread title.

If for whatever reason someone doesn't manage to do so, further administrative actions will be taken.

Thank you!

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why should anyone listen to the things you say? They don't have anything to do with this discussion. Maybe you should start a new thread entitled "****ed by marcus purnell"

lol :d

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mlewis1969 and LW1, i'm constantly repeating myself on this issue and you refuse to even try understand how things work

there 10000s missions, 1000s scripts there missions can use, 1000s mods and writing universal BE script filters is impossible ...

it's not humanly possible for me to make scripts for every combination of script commands and calls or else ...

i did dayzmod PoC example and several smaller examples , but DayZ was biggest so it was simplest to demonstrate how use it

oh and btw. server side filters are out for like year, http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?138736-Introducing-Server-side-Event-Logging-Blocking

your approach to complains is same as blame us for offering configs or video options with 'choices'

claiming that 3 buttons: Low, Medium, End are enough because it's simple ...

if you are admin it's sort of your burden and responsibility to try deal with things ...

also even if you lazy and run all filters at play 1 "" for logging, nothing stops you from using perl parser to find abusers ...

only solution would be remove every single script command which relay over network from client into MP space from the scripting

in such case forget about any backward compability ...

(pure example removal of setVehicleInit which per say, has no effect as other ways around exist, yet that step alone breaks like 25% old missions)

and complete rewrite of scripting system ...

while it may happen to some degree, don't expect radical cuts, yet ...

Edited by Dwarden

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@Dwarden: Are you referring to something I said? I've only had the opportunity to post four or five times sense the beginning of this thread and I'm only voicing (like everyone else) my own opinions. Theres been a lot of things said here but are you blaming "me" for these arguments? If I don't have the freedom to say what's on my mind here please say so because it sounds like you would have me silenced for no good reasons.

Edited by mlewis1969

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i'm not blaming you for anything , i was just saying that i keep repeating myself on the subject way too often ...

BE (ofcourse with help of BI) has came with optionable bonus solution to the multiplayer 'scripting' issue in OA and A3 engine

it was obvious not everyone can use it or be happy with it, but it's better than nothing

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