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2 hours ago, SuicideKing said:

Maybe try turning their skills up? Especially the general AI subskill.

Doesn't change anything substantial - already tried.

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There is a major AI bug that occured after the last update.

If you use the reveal command on a unit with combat mode "RED", that unit will forget about it.

 

Example:

  1. place a Hellcat in the air, and put an ifrit 1 km away, but in direct sight of the hellcat. 
  2. Name them "ifrit" and "hellcat" respectively.
  3. Set combat mode for "Hellcat" to "open fire" (This is the most aggressive combat mode, where AI  would engage known units not only in direct view but will also move to the better position if unit is not in direct sight).
  4. Type " hellcat reveal ifrit" in console and press execute. Then check with " Hellcat knowsabout Ifrit " it will output 1, showing that hellcat is fully aware of the ifrit that it is an enemy and its position.

 

Before Encore update - Hellcat would fly and engage Ifrit.

After Encore Update - Nothing. (He will attack Ifrit if Ifrit fires at him, but combat mode is set to "RED" and Hellcat acts as if it is "GREEN").

 

The behavior is variable, e.g. hellcat will not engage an ifrit, ifrit will not engage infantry. Below certain range, ifrit will engage, however that range is lower by about 400m than the effective range of it`s weapon.

 

This is important because knowing these distances you can just pass AI vehicles without consequence and they will never fire at you, even if they know about you, no matter what their ROE is set to (Unless you fire at them).

 

BTW, dofire, dotarget do not work , they just ignore it, until fired upon.

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On 18/08/2018 at 3:54 PM, Ivanoff.N said:

This is the video of the bug described above:

 

 

 

the not-so-subtle “we’d prefer you to play our game in PvP” nudge

 

also double check dynamic simulation is off and maybe try a different variable name, “h” may already be defined

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On 22/08/2018 at 2:17 AM, fn_Quiksilver said:

 

 

the not-so-subtle “we’d prefer you to play our game in PvP” nudge

 

also double check dynamic simulation is off and maybe try a different variable name, “h” may already be defined

No its they increased the knowsabout value to maximum of 4. Before it was 1. But reveal command now sets this value to 1 so you need to reveal 4. In general it is same as before just a different value now. I did not know about it. Did not even think this was the case, never thought that array of numbers between 0 and 1 was not enough.

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On 18.08.2018 at 7:12 AM, Ivanoff.N said:

There is a major AI bug that occured after the last update.

 

I do not remember not one update (2013-2018), so it does not break anything from the previous game.

How tired I am of these updates! All last updates always kills precisely the artificial intelligence or something associated with it

(for example, control of the AI through the command menu).

All tickets on feedback just hang in the void and no one fixes it.  Instead of fixing, the developers are preparing the next update, which will add new bugs.

 I dream about the times,  when all this endless and useless updates will end! It seems to me (at least so it looks from the side) that the BIS has long disbanded its AI - programmers, for this reason, we see only breakdowns of AI, instead of progress. We need to accept with a partial collapse of the AI in the Arma, unfortunately in this life it will never be polished.

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12 hours ago, mickeymen said:

 

I do not remember not one update (2013-2018), so it does not break anything from the previous game.

How tired I am of these updates! All last updates always kills precisely the artificial intelligence or something associated with it

(for example, control of the AI through the command menu).

All tickets on feedback just hang in the void and no one fixes it.  Instead of fixing, the developers are preparing the next update, which will add new bugs.

 I dream about the times,  when all this endless and useless updates will end! It seems to me (at least so it looks from the side) that the BIS has long disbanded its AI - programmers, for this reason, we see only breakdowns of AI, instead of progress. We need to accept with a partial collapse of the AI in the Arma, unfortunately in this life it will never be polished.

What exactly is the point of this post mickymen. you don't remember any updates since 2013 really?if that is the case no need for you on Dev branch because you won't remember it either way, right? 

 

The stuff you say is so sweeping, can't even see this as valid criticism, just comes across as a whinge.

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4 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

What exactly is the point of this post mickymen. you don't remember any updates since 2013 really?if that is the case no need for you on Dev branch because you won't remember it either way, right? 

 

Hey hello. You did not understand anything that I said, maybe it's my fault.
I said that any update since the release of Arma3 (this is 2013), broke something from the previous version of this game. For example version 1.12, broke partially version 1.1 and so on. Sometimes it was microscopic breakage but still. Anyone who was attentive to the game could have noticed this

 

@Ivanoff.N as a matter of fact wrote about the same, the story continues

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The AI have been dumbed down in a handful of big updates. 

 

Apex expansion update killed the wheeled vehicle AI

 

Laws of War dlc update killed a lot of their organic on-footbmovement

 

Tac Ops DLC severely reduced their engagement distance on foot

 

Encore update may have (still gathering data) reduced the ground vehicle engagement ranges

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7 hours ago, mickeymen said:

 

Hey hello. You did not understand anything that I said, maybe it's my fault.
I said that any update since the release of Arma3 (this is 2013), broke something from the previous version of this game. For example version 1.12, broke partially version 1.1 and so on. Sometimes it was microscopic breakage but still. Anyone who was attentive to the game could have noticed this

 

@Ivanoff.N as a matter of fact wrote about the same, the story continues

AI were cherry at top of pie, all OFP\Arma series, before progress of updates in Arma3. Loss of this main component in a game, has disappointed me.
In Arma3 a lot of good \excellent work, but unfortunately, broken remained too much.  
The message from BIS that Arma3 in plans for 2018, have no AI correction, has defined my position, I don't play Arma3 from last year.

Before release of Tanks DLS, AI have received a problem (1.80-1.82), and it isn't corrected still.

AI the driver doesn't keep the Tank position. For AI there is no dumping of the appointed traveling point.

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T127626

 

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9 hours ago, lex__1 said:

AI were cherry at top of pie, all OFP\Arma series, before progress of updates in Arma3. Loss of this main component in a game, has disappointed me.
In Arma3 a lot of good \excellent work, but unfortunately, broken remained too much.

 

 

Couldn't agree more.

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 They really need to hire one of the AI guys from the community -one that loves the AI, not seeing it as an annoying feature they wish the public would forget. One that could have a genuine, ongoing discussion with the community rather than "We have no plans for that" or worse just utter ignoring silence. Planes/Helos/Audio/Rockets and Sensors all had their specific liaison with the community -where's our guy?

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9 hours ago, froggyluv said:

 

 They really need to hire one of the AI guys from the community -one that loves the AI, not seeing it as an annoying feature they wish the public would forget. One that could have a genuine, ongoing discussion with the community rather than "We have no plans for that" or worse just utter ignoring silence. Planes/Helos/Audio/Rockets and Sensors all had their specific liaison with the community -where's our guy?

 

i prefer to look on the bright side! that a company which dislikes AI development so much, even included it at all in A3 or facilitates discussion of the feature on their message board. im thankful i guess

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1. the ai is pretty good in some places, especially compared with other games

2. you have to imagine that the bad parts are made of a network of pipes of a type that are not manufactured anymore. The map of the pipe network is incomplete and the pipes are leaking. If you fix a leak in one pipe, it causes another pipe to leak. Some of the leaks are necessary for the game to run.

 

'one of the ai guys from the community' would probably run away screaming after a week.. ;-)

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1 hour ago, fn_Quiksilver said:

 

i prefer to look on the bright side! that a company which dislikes AI development so much, even included it at all in A3 or facilitates discussion of the feature on their message board. im thankful i guess

Ha I think you are going a bit too far here with the they hate Ai. 

 

There are valid criticisms for sure, hell you posted a quick list right before this. 

 

I think personally it would be really short sighted and a bad move on their part closing a door on themselves for potential missions that blow up. They do always be showing love for the organised p v e missions in the op reps.

 

If I had to guess it is more straight forward. They don't have the resources plain and simple. They dropped the dlc broken a part of the Ai, that they cannot call someone off something with greater priority to fix, or who aren't working on the old engine at all.

 

Frankly I'd hope the only good reason is because they have been ahead of the curve and working on Arma4 for some time now while them dlcs were dropping, with any Ai work being focused on the new engine.

 

Worst case scenario is you are right. And they have abandoned Ai, and all that goes with single player and multiplayer co op. That would be a big step back for the series.anyone thinking it would be a good idea are not seeing all the angles.

 

P.s To Mickey man, your op that I answered to obviously was lost in translation. Made more sense in the second one. 

 

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On 31.08.2018 at 12:16 AM, fn_Quiksilver said:

The AI have been dumbed down in a handful of big updates. 

 

Apex expansion update killed the wheeled vehicle AI

 

Laws of War dlc update killed a lot of their organic on-footbmovement

 

Tac Ops DLC severely reduced their engagement distance on foot

 

Encore update may have (still gathering data) reduced the ground vehicle engagement ranges

 

You are absolutely right this is sad.
 From those that I found, these AI-bugs were added after the two last updates

 

After 1.80 the "Next Waypoint" command for AI-driver not work stable

After 1.82 the AI-subordinates do not enter the cargo hold of vehicle

After 1.82 the radio-status "Ready" for AI-subordinate drivers disappeared

After 1.82, the ai-gunner is unable execute the Fire-command of his commander

 

I found 4 destruction for AI in two last updates! And this is not all bugs, there are other bugs not related to AI! F*uuuuuck I'm hit!!!

BIS no longer has AI-programmers, but continues to make useless updates, for this reason that I said that - I dream about the times,  when all this endless and useless updates will end

 

4 hours ago, joostsidy said:

 the ai is pretty good in some places, especially compared with other games

 

Yes it's true, but big part of AI capabilities already not functional, within the declared gameplay of the game in which it should work! Note that before this worked. In Arma3 the AI does not understand the some waypoints and settings inside this waypoint, Now AI not understand the commands in the command menu. I do not want to see any non-functional garbage in the game - I think this is the desire of normal user who loves his game

 

4 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

To Mickey man, your op that I answered to obviously was lost in translation. Made more sense in the second one. 

I'm glad that you still understand my message

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I understand that the game PvP isn't less interesting than PvEvP, but I am not impressed by refusal of AI development. AI is a half of a game which has impressed and has surprised many players in OFP release, in development of the Arma series.
I understand that I at the time of OFP, AI was big help, for players without the stable Internet. AI gives feeling and immersion in team game. But also now also, not each player would like to have crew of PvP. Regarding the game PvP, there is always a probability to appear in "one team" with the inept player. The inept player causes negative experience in a game that irritates more than the broken AI.
I would like to see return of a priority to AI development.
It is necessary to take for this work of the expert who won't "shout" that it is difficult and the mission isn't feasible.
Not to make a mistake in development of Arma 4, I want to see vote in community, on key questions. There is a wish to see a desired surprise in Arma 4.

 

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Just now, lex__1 said:

I understand that the game PvP isn't less interesting than PvEvP, but I am not impressed by refusal of AI development. AI is a half of a game which has impressed and has surprised many players in OFP release, in development of the Arma series.
I understand that I at the time of OFP, AI was big help, for players without the stable Internet. AI gives feeling and immersion in team game. But also now also, not each player would like to have crew of PvP. Regarding the game PvP, there is always a probability to appear in "one team" with the inept player.
I would like to see return of a priority to AI development.
It is necessary to take for this work of the expert who won't "shout" that it is difficult and the mission isn't feasible.
Not to make a mistake in development of Arma 4, I want to see vote in community, on key questions. There is a wish to see a desired surprise in Arma 4.

 

 

Yes Yes Yes! BIS please find and please hire again the AI programmers! if not in the studio, then this may be AI Mod-makers from this Forum!

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1 hour ago, joostsidy said:

'one of the ai guys from the community' would probably run away screaming after a week.. ;-)

 

Indeed. I'm all for the intense AI development, even despite such development means more broken things along the way, but modding AI with SQF is one thing, while regular game code programming, especially for the one, who joins the party so late having zero previous knowledge about Arma's actual code, not mentioning experience in regular programming itself seems quite another. 

 

Still, hiring a renown AI SQF scipter that in the same time is an experienced programmer at the beginning of the new game iteration development sounds reasonable, as such background means passion for the subject, and thus deeper insight into it combined with required programming skill, while tedious, time consuming accustomization with existing code is not an issue, because there's no such code yet. That is - it sounds reasonable to me, who isn't neither a programmer neither a game dev nor producer. 

 

Anyway, I hope, there will be always enough Arma users interested in the AI gameplay, to make an investment in the AI development a good choice. Because if not Arma - where will I go? :(

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I see it from the life-cycle POV. A3 is 2011 til 2020 I would say, if A4 will see the light at all.

I consider A3 playable from 2013-2016, rest was recovering from to early release and poor attempts to add functionality or fix things but making it worst.

2011/12 was busy to get worst bugs ironed out. Since 2016 BIS is busy to destroy all achievments by adding new functionality to a poor base.

If BIS is leaving A3 as it is it would mean that I can play A3 3 out of 9 years in a somehow acceptable manner.

Rest is f&%$ and pray.

I definately tried to use A3 as a game, seriously, but in 2011-2013, even in 2014/15 I returned to A2 for CTI games because there the overall package was working.

In 2014/15/16 and even2017 I was playing A3 CTIs which are meant to last hours.

But if many tactics and strategies are constantly wrecked by bugs, the frustration level becomes to high.

BIS you can get my cash and my support - but only for a minimum level of quality.

 

 

 

 

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Ummm, this was mainly about AI.

Sorry that I did not made this clear.

Of course there were many other bugs, but one could always find a workaround.

Main feature that made OFP and ArmA unique in comparision to other competitors was a quite useful AI.

Now AI becomes rather a problem.

Even the sensors upgrade feeds the AI knowledge of about the environment.

I am fine with the units BIS was adding, or better said - I do not really care.

My issue is now that during a game I have do remember (and deal) with so many issues and their workarounds that playing is only fun (IMHO) with as few as possible AI.

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Dear users! All who are concerned about the fact of the destruction of AI in the game!

 

I think we need to come up with some kind of mechanism, an impact on the developers. Otherwise, the developers will not react in any way, to the desire to make AI more adequate. Every day the chances are increasingly melting! The remaining developers spend their efforts to create useless things (such as encore), which, moreover, are likely to add additional AI-errors. 

 

I do not even dream of having a new capabilities added to the AI.

I only dream of having everything that is stated in ArmA3 worked fine!

I mean every command for player subordinates in the command menu and every waypoint type and its settings, which is stated the game editor.

All this details must work 100%! Unfortunately, it seems to me, now 40% of those details in Arma3 is not functional or semi-functional.

 

All this is a sad experience, which makes me angry because I remember the moments when it all worked fine!

 

I propose to collect a petition

Let's think together, How it's best can be done?

A petition with a large number of signatures may have a chance

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41 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

I think we need to come up with some kind of mechanism, an impact on the developers. Otherwise, the developers will not react in any way, to the desire to make AI more adequate. Every day the chances are increasingly melting! The remaining developers spend their efforts to create useless things (such as encore), which, moreover, are likely to add additional AI-errors. 

 

Why do you feel that encore was in your words an 'useless' update? 

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8 hours ago, R0adki11 said:

 

Why do you feel that encore was in your words an 'useless' update? 

 

Hello. From my point of view, most updates are useless (most of all it is dlc), because it destroys the stability the previous versions game and often add non-functional things. About breakdowns, I already gave some examples above.There are tons of other examples, they all hang for years on the feedback tracker and no one tries to fix them.

 

The most affected is artificial intelligence, this directly relates to this topic, so I'm talking about this.

Now, I do not want to deep into the discussion about the usefulness/uselessness of updates, this is not related to this topic.

 

As part of our conversation about Encore (as no more than just about the last update) , I can give the following example:

 

 

It took a lot of work to create "USS Liberty", but it is impossible to apply it in a single mission, because the AI is not able to move around it 

It is impossible to create any mission on this ship! I can not understand for this use? It can be used only as a visual decoration, not more, because It can not move, it is not destructible and even AI can not move around it! The AI will not understand the waypoints on his board - It will always pass through walls, or fall overboard. It's a real shame....

 

The same applies to Freedom Carrier. This is completely useless material, because the AI-pilots is not able to take off / land on it. 

The deck crew is not able to understand where the boundaries of this ship and any waypoint on his board -  they will constantly fall into the sea ~  All these ships are only a beautiful pictures, but they are not functional.  

 

I think a useful update will be if developers stop adding any non-functional garbage to the game, and instead start to raise the functionality of the game. Now ( v1.84) One third of the Arma3 is simply not working things, while this is the declared material in the game, most of all it concerns AI.

 

Here's my answer.

 

 

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