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Maybe there is something that can be fixed with the AI vs Armored, if the crewman behavior is "SAFE" (so their head are outside the tank) the AT specialist will use their rifle for shoot the crewman..... they will use the AT when the crewman are in danger or aware, after that they can't fire a missile cause they are spotted and killed by the tank.

So its easy for an AI to take down a tank in combat mode and impossible when they are safe cause they use rifle.

 

But really guys a forum its for debating a subject, debating=contradiction sometimes, but its like if somebody not agree something he's the public enemy.

 

I think arma need to fix few thing before adding other thing that can cause new issue.

 

Im not a dev or something like this, but when i see adding delay.... imagine 1 sec an AI jet pilot if you put more delay on reaction.... he will just fly around the target without engaging, same with a AA he will never able to shot down a fastmover.

Edited by damsous
faute d orthographe

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Something I noticed that will perhaps help other players when playing with AI drones. If you want a fully AI controlled drone to engage something on it's own move it's weapons from the gunner to pilot. By default they start with  weapons control to the gunner and they don't engage anything even with destroy/seek and destroy wps. I tested this with the K40 Ababil\Greyhawk. Sadly the CSAT Apex drone Fenghuang is still broken (still no dynamic loadout for it) unless you take control of it.

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4 Black Wasps armed with Macers, setinheight 1000 and full skill vs 3 Kamish and 3 Varsuks, emission control active for all units and this is the result. Tbh I thought AI driving was bad...

 

Had to actually gimp the Kamysh with the lowest skill (0.20) otherwise their autocannons will eat the Wasps for breakfast.

In fact you don't need any SAM in this game, just slap an autocannon on a donkey and it can clear the sky especially when warplanes act like WW2 dive bombers since OFP.  To note that even on the lowest skill setting the autocannons on Kamysh or other ground units still act like friggin' lasers. Their dispersion increases with distance but considering the slow poke jets dive,  slow down to extreme and basically fly over their heads you could even have a chipmunk as gunner and still eliminate them without issues.

Giving the Kamysh a cycle waypoint it lets it warming up the engine so the F/A-181 could lock on faster (in theory because it still needs to get dangerously close), of course this doesn't eliminate the diving.

 

 

 

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On 1.3.2018 at 6:23 AM, fn_Quiksilver said:

 

Every AI unit should also be given a randomly generated variable which has nothing to do with skills and stuff. just a random number to use for delays and stuff.

+10000000000000000000000000000

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On 01/03/2018 at 5:23 AM, fn_Quiksilver said:

 

Every AI unit should also be given a randomly generated variable which has nothing to do with skills and stuff. just a random number to use for delays and stuff.

Absolutely! All my ai have a base skill set then a random variance is added or subtracted.

My players have different skill levels so my ai do too.

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@oukej I found some big squishy bugs on 1.82.

The Wasp Macer missiles have extremely short lock on range. Compare them with Scalpels on AH-99 which have a huge(and better) locking on distance. Just like with Wasps I assume the same issue is with the other jets too like Shikra or Gryphon considering the same loadout.

 

 

Speaking of attack choppers:

1. If pilot has cannon ammo he won't let the gunner use AGMs.

2. If I remove the cannon ammo the gunner will use Scalpels.

3. If I move the AGMs control from gunner to pilot, the pilot will use the Scalpels even with full cannon ammo.

Two vids I made, one for Ah-99 and one for MI-48 Kajman:

 

 

Considering the same behaviour with Kajman for both sides I assume every chopper in this category is affected no matter the side.

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2 minutes ago, krycek said:

Macer missiles have extremely short lock on range. Compare them with Scalpels on AH-99 which have a huge(and better) locking on distance. Just like with Wasps I assume the same issue is with the other jets too like Shikra or Gryphon considering the same loadout.

The missile itself has a 8km range (limited by visibility), but the AI has to "know" about the target first. For example in Wipeout the AI can - with some knowledge in advance - start locking the target in 4-5km range (which is given by the airplane's onboard sensors) and will fire immediately after getting the lock.

 

2 minutes ago, krycek said:

Speaking of attack choppers:

1. If pilot has cannon ammo he won't let the gunner use AGMs.

2. If I remove the cannon ammo the gunner will use Scalpels.

3. If I move the AGMs control from gunner to pilot, the pilot will use the Scalpels even with full cannon ammo.

Two vids I made, one for Ah-99 and one for MI-48 Kajman:

Looks like https://feedback.bistudio.com/T128103.

This is currently being worked on.

 

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2 minutes ago, oukej said:

The missile itself has a 8km range (limited by visibility), but the AI has to "know" about the target first. For example in Wipeout the AI can - with some knowledge in advance - start locking the target in 4-5km range (which is given by the airplane's onboard sensors) and will fire immediately after getting the lock.

 

Looks like https://feedback.bistudio.com/T128103.

This is currently being worked on.

 

 Check my other vid on this page, I can't make a Wasp lock-on with the 4-5km range even if I add Xmas lights on the ground units. Let's assume the targets were in a city so lower visibility and obstacles and they weren't moving, but in my last post the Kamysh is in open field and moving around yet the Wasp will target it in 500m (aprox) while the AH-99(in my vid) will have a bigger lock-on range. That's with ideal target conditions and a pilot with full skill.

 

Regarding the attack choppers I had a look at that ticket, perhaps your team is already aware but I'm not seeing anywhere what I wrote and what I showed in the vids: if the pilot has cannon ammo he won't let the gunner use the Scalpels, if I remove cannon ammo the gunner will engage with the Scalpels, if I switch missile control from gunner to pilot then the pilot will engage no matter if he has cannon ammo or not.

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16 minutes ago, krycek said:

 Check my other vid on this page, I can't make a Wasp lock-on with the 4-5km range even if I add Xmas lights on the ground units. Let's assume the targets were in a city so lower visibility and obstacles and they weren't moving, but in my last post the Kamysh is in open field and moving around yet the Wasp will target it in 500m (aprox) while the AH-99(in my vid) will have a bigger lock-on range. That's with ideal target conditions and a pilot with full skill.

It is an AI first time recognition issue - if you make the AI plane fly away after the first pass it should engage the target without hesitation from longer distance. You can also use https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/reveal or https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/reportRemoteTarget combined with enabling the datalink on the airplane.

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29 minutes ago, krycek said:

 if the pilot has cannon ammo he won't let the gunner use the Scalpels, if I remove cannon ammo the gunner will engage with the Scalpels, if I switch missile control from gunner to pilot then the pilot will engage no matter if he has cannon ammo or not.

By default (vanilla) the pilot doesn't have control over any weapon - that's mainly because of the AI.

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Another thing I don`t know if this is what was said earlier. The FFAR (HE) missles are not used against infantry by airplanes. Airplane sees the target and does "the dive" coming very close, but does not fire.

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@oukej I tried again, "eyeballing" it it's about 1km(maybe 1.5km) in these ideal conditions. I'm very sure when it engages on the second try that it's not 3-4km. I switched everything on emissions, data link on Wasp and Hunter. In a combat scenario the Wasp won't have these perfect targets like in the vid where a big fat armored vehicle is in open field without returning fire. If you look at the vid I showed everything, I even have visibility on max.

 

 

Regarding the Kajman I tested again:

Same issues as described before with the gunner not engaging with Scalpels if the chopper has cannon ammo. I also load it with Skyfire which it can't even use it properly but at least Wulf is aware of it.

Not in vid but I also tested the Kajman with Sharur and there is no problem at all but that is a jet weapon.

 

 

51 minutes ago, oukej said:

By default (vanilla) the pilot doesn't have control over any weapon - that's mainly because of the AI.

 

Yup my bad, the gunner uses the cannon but if I take missile control from the gunner and switch it to pilot then the pilot will engage with Scalpels.

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@oukej Also right now (on stable) the AI seems not to be able to perform CAS strikes when using the CAS support modules. The aircraft does deliver the package but it gets awfully close. It is very slow and dives to the target, then dropping the LGB.

Shouldn't they be able to deliver the bomb to the target coordinates using their CCIP from a height of like 2000m or so?

That would increase their survivability and also look a lot better.

 

(tested with Black Wasp and Wipeout)

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27 minutes ago, the_one_and_only_Venator said:

The aircraft does deliver the package but it gets awfully close.

Hasn't this been always the case, I'm afraid? The mentioned "WW2 attack patterns" and overflying enemies?

 

3 hours ago, krycek said:

I'm very sure when it engages on the second try that it's not 3-4km.

On it's own it won't get such a distance before the second run. What I meant is if you made the airplane fly away and then turn back.
 

3 hours ago, krycek said:

I switched everything on emissions, data link on Wasp and Hunter. In a combat scenario the Wasp won't have these perfect targets like in the vid where a big fat armored vehicle is in open field without returning fire.

Hunter has no sensors and won't be able to share the enemy target info via datalink. Have you tried adding the target to the datalink directly via script?
Put this into your target init:

blufor reportRemoteTarget [this, 600];

 


 

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3 hours ago, Ivanoff.N said:

The FFAR (HE) missles are not used against infantry by airplanes. Airplane sees the target and does "the dive" coming very close, but does not fire.

The rockets named "DAR"? Their cost is too high. We should be able to fix that.

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53 minutes ago, oukej said:

Hasn't this been always the case, I'm afraid? The mentioned "WW2 attack patterns" and overflying enemies?

On it's own it won't get such a distance before the second run. What I meant is if you made the airplane fly away and then turn back.
Hunter has no sensors and won't be able to share the enemy target info via datalink. Have you tried adding the target to the datalink directly via script?
Put this into your target init:


blufor reportRemoteTarget [this, 600];

 

I did added that to the target init and  it works better. With a Kamysh on the Stratis air base and the Wasp coming from N of the map the plane will turn around (and fire) Camp Maxwell which it's about 3km from the air base.

 

The WW2 attack patterns is nothing new especially with jets they always acted like this, imo if the diving had a workaround/fix and the jet being able to lock on from a height of 1000-2000m on the second run this would have also fixed the problems with engaging targets in a city for example and getting so stupidly lower to the ground when approaching.

 

 

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20 hours ago, oukej said:

Hasn't this been always the case, I'm afraid? The mentioned "WW2 attack patterns" and overflying enemies?

 

Yes, so does the blackfish with sidemounted weapons and every other attack chopper despite having weapon systems which would allow active engagements from 1km+.

Having AI head dive towards the enemy targets as close as 50m is nuts.

Hopefully AI in arma 4 will have some more self preservation and utilize its vehicles systems.

 

Cheers

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On 4/19/2018 at 8:30 PM, oukej said:

The rockets named "DAR"? Their cost is too high. We should be able to fix that.

Tratnyr x20 (HE) .. And maybe even autocannon, it is HE and hitting next to infantry even not precisely guarantees a kill.

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17 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

 

Yes, so does the blackfish with sidemounted weapons and every other attack chopper despite having weapon systems which would allow active engagements from 1km+.

Having AI head dive towards the enemy targets as close as 50m is nuts.

Hopefully AI in arma 4 will have some more self preservation and utilize its vehicles systems.

 

Cheers

 

50m? would be a glorious day if they would stay above 50m

 

 

 

best predictor of future outputs is past inputs.

 

i haven't seen any indication that there will be AI at all in A4 :)

 

I would guess they'll port Zombies AI (past input) from DayZ to the new engine, so there might be Zombie AI.

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1 minute ago, fn_Quiksilver said:

 

50m? would be a glorious day if they would stay above 50m

 

 

 

What a joy.

As of now I'll refrain from buying arma 4 unless the AI will change significantly.

This has been dragging on for too long now.

Doubt BI can't afford a decent senior AI programmer or 2.

 

Cheers

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9 hours ago, fn_Quiksilver said:

i haven't seen any indication that there will be AI at all in A4 :)

Yes, you haven't seen any indication of anything Axy whatsoever ;) :P

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5 hours ago, oukej said:

Yes, you haven't seen any indication of anything Axy whatsoever ;) :P

Oh shit new ai in arma4 confirmed lol

 

Back to arma 3 ai any chance of looking at the loiter wp and making ai stick to it better ie following the set direction properly and not doing its own thing after a while. Would massively help the blackfish, as would adding the man sensor and removing the radar. The radar makes them go nuts when they spot a target. The man sensor aligned to one of the guns and the ai in a loiter pattern actually engage men and vehicles  without the need for any player interaction. Changing the 105mm ammo to HE instead if HEAT would help too and flag the ammo for use against AI.

As for the ww2 dive bombing I know it probably won't be fixed in a3 but can you at least look at changing the heights they start the dive and the height they pull out if it? At least try to make them stay away from small arms fire

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9 hours ago, oukej said:

Yes, you haven't seen any indication of anything Axy whatsoever ;) :P

 

this is true as well :)

 

my source on the inside has gone silent in recent month, i can only assume the leaker has been caught and neutralized

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19 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

 

Doubt BI can't afford a decent senior AI programmer or 2.

 

 

AI programmers aren't cheap, and convincing a good one to come and work on an old engine would be challenging and probably more expensive even.

 

Also BIS is coming up to 5 years without a major title. It isn't a small company anymore. Lots of employees to pay. I suspect there is a lot of pressure on the team and they won't be able to stretch the budget out for too many more years without getting some product on Steam.

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