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There are still big problems in enemy AI turning to the player and engage. You can see them looking to you but not turning, some other times they don't engage at all. Also you can follow them sometimes... If they know that you're after a corner, they get past the corner not looking at you at all (not always).

The main reason that enemy AI exists is to engage the players. Also their main objective and activity is to shoot at the other side, usually the player side. If they cannot properly achieve this basic of their meaning, they are considered bad AI. There is nothing worse than seeing them not shooting at you, wondering around pointless and not engaging. In the end the player gets to not be afraid of AI anymore, and this destroys the very basic concepts of combat and gaming. The AI needs to be good in combat, then all other issues like pathfinding etc can be fixed. The very primitive AI that existed, like the ones in Doom, were just created to head to player and engage, nothing else. And they accomplished their mission at that time.

In this context, all those CQB conditions that make them engage should be reviewed. There should be a basic check with priority 0 like "if one of the players is close and AI has a line of fire to him then AI just turn to him and shoot." For the moment, there are still flaws in this behavior. Of course, the devil is in details, like the AI should know about the player, but as long as the combat started, a sound has been heard or the player is not perfectly aligned behind the AI, the condition to engage should be true.

Edited by afp

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gfUZBAvqugrveCmFZ-O84gieJQ6dFsdIw-pxAkqJQKw/edit?usp=sharing

Prior to downloading today's patch, I have done more tests using yesterday's version. NEW TESTS are always at the TOP of the document, with date and now also with version number. Only four, but they were revealing as I could note some behaviours I´ve also spotted while playing other missions. The low movement is very good, and use of prone vs high stances was also good, even in the other missions with open terrain.

There still are problems, particularly with cover exploitation, as well as making decisions of firing over moving or vice versa. Vehicles, especially Aircraft, are terrible in their use of terrain and tactics, and often suffer undue losses.

I will add an example Mission later to demonstrate this.

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BIS can you make it so AI persue you if you attack them from buildings? i was in the ATC tower and the enemy squad just led there. i would have thought they would of searched the building??

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The sarcasm is strong with this one.

You never seen a basic question asked..:confused:

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I now have a big smile on my face seeing these AI improvements. IMHO I would do with a lower amount of units/vehicles etc and with all the time that that frees up, pumping it into AI improvements. However, I have, and always will trust BIS to give us the best they can ... that's why I'm a supporter!

The same, how many games have a AI who could drive vehicule (air, on the ground and more) and play as soldier, few and all of these AI were very boring^^.

But, i think than the movement of the squad were very slow, it's not possible to increase the movement of squad ? In the airfield, for exemple, to kill a unit from 300 m behind a wall. The IA need 5 minutes to move on 300 m. Very slow cover and movement, why not^^ but very a long time each time.

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A short test after today update, demonstrating some AI flows in close combat.

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A short test after today update, demonstrating some AI flows in close combat.

Oh God....

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A short test after today update, demonstrating some AI flows in close combat.

Nice test, we need more^^ when people cry about the IA, they lost the problem in close combat :p

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You never seen a basic question asked..:confused:

Not a dig, i like finely crafted sarcasm. Unless that isn't what the video is?

Otherwise disregard.

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I'm not sure if he can help..:p

We live in hope mate!

I know bugger all about the complexities of AI programing and I really hope it's all going to be steps in the right direction but there must be a way of an over-ride for AI of "you can see the enemy... it's less than x metres away, do not evaluate ANYTHING ELSE and SHOOT at him!!!!" Okay... gonna have a lie down now...;-)

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it's always good to remember past, when we used our Arma 2 AI in 2010 to laugh over 'certain game' fails

Arma 2 AI was capable to kill close range enemy within 6 seconds timeframe (or 2s depends on case)

to avoid someone now laugh over same fails at us ...

...

time to find the cause of regresion and kill that bugger :cool:

...

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Sorry for going off on a tangent from this threads current theme, but I'd just like to highlight how bad the AI driving is when on.. what I would deem.. a suitable area, with enough space to simply move forward.

I have two videos here. A small explanation beforehand since the recording is kind of short and doesn't really explain the process. I placed 5 vehicles in order of march, column formation behind each other. Once all the Infantry mounted, 60 seconds or so would pass before the vehicles moved to the next way-point which was just at the end of the road, and then on to the various way-points placed every 200 metres or so. Unfortunately the group of vehicles never gets there in one piece, having never been able to leave the confines of the airbase in which they start.

This is attempt #3 and the 'action' starts around 40s in. Most of the other vehicles seem to make it out, just, but the vehicle I'm in has other ideas.

This second one is probably attempt #11 to get out of the airbase, after moving the vehicles further apart to allow more room for manoeuvre

Under the circumstances, I don't think the AI should really have much trouble just simply travelling down a pre-made, pre-mapped road. There was more than adequate room to manoeuvre, yet still they always felt the need to 'avoid' one another by driving headlong into the nearest wall. It just left me tearing my hair out really and crying "JUST MOVE FORWARD!".

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A short test after today update, demonstrating some AI flows in close combat.

I tried the exact same setup (except the waypoint directly on the group leader, that may cause some issues on its own) and the result was pretty much the same as yours. BUT. The AI had quite low AI skill setting. Raising it to 1 made them flank the building and shoot me from behind, while 3 guys guarded their side of the building, holding their ground and opening fire as soon as I turned the corner.

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Low AI skill doesn't mean it's OK that they can't spot the player point blank and react to that. Several of AI just walked past the player while even looking at him and made no attempt to defend themselves.

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I tried the exact same setup (except the waypoint directly on the group leader, that may cause some issues on its own) and the result was pretty much the same as yours. BUT. The AI had quite low AI skill setting. Raising it to 1 made them flank the building and shoot me from behind, while 3 guys guarded their side of the building, holding their ground and opening fire as soon as I turned the corner.

is the setting you are on about on the difficulty or in the editor? sometimes gets confusing which one gets changed

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is the setting you are on about on the difficulty or in the editor? sometimes gets confusing which one gets changed

I would assume defaults in the difficulty, and then changing the settings in the Editor. Otherwise it doesn´t make sense. I´m only using editor skill bar now, not changing the default settings in any way when testing. If you mess with the cfgs or skill sliders in the difficulty, it becomes impossible to do consistent tests. The skill slider in the editor makes it complicated enough.

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I tried the exact same setup (except the waypoint directly on the group leader, that may cause some issues on its own) and the result was pretty much the same as yours. BUT. The AI had quite low AI skill setting. Raising it to 1 made them flank the building and shoot me from behind, while 3 guys guarded their side of the building, holding their ground and opening fire as soon as I turned the corner.

I see.... I didn't know that waypoint straight on the leader can cause issues too. I used waypoints like this in the past without any problem, thought its "waypoint 0".

Indeed, the slider should only adjust things like aiming speed, accuracy etc and not the decision tree of the AI. Mission designers will use it for fine tunings... 0.5 should be taken as a reference for a decent behavior and accuracy, speed etc.

In terms of changing stance its a huge improvement over the beginning , the way they are now looks more natural. They get up and run, then prone and aim again.

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I would assume defaults in the difficulty, and then changing the settings in the Editor. Otherwise it doesn´t make sense. I´m only using editor skill bar now, not changing the default settings in any way when testing. If you mess with the cfgs or skill sliders in the difficulty, it becomes impossible to do consistent tests. The skill slider in the editor makes it complicated enough.

whats the best difficulty setting to have (ai skill wise? 0.50/0.50??)

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whats the best difficulty setting to have (ai skill wise? 0.50/0.50??)

I use the defaults for testing, and play on veteran difficulty all the time. I think it is .92 / .85

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*

A BIS' developer that have to defend himself by posting a 3 years old video about the comparision with the Arma 2 AI and a console-port fail game AI is just hilarious. Sorry for everyone, but i've lost this one.

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A BIS' developer that have to defend himself by posting a 3 years old video about the comparision with the Arma 2 AI and a console-port fail game AI is just hilarious. Sorry for everyone, but i've lost this one.

I think you did not understand the post.

it's always good to remember past, when we used our Arma 2 AI in 2010 to laugh over 'certain game' fails

Arma 2 AI was capable to kill close range enemy within 6 seconds timeframe (or 2s depends on case)

to avoid someone now laugh over same fails at us ...

...

time to find the cause of regresion and kill that bugger :cool:

...

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