AI Discussion (dev branch)

[f2k sel 164]

Just witnessed AI placing explosive satchels next to an enemy MRAP (with a broken gun), without any scripts. Really cool! Too bad I couldn't witness the EOD guy detonating them because he was killed shortly after by a friendly shooting the MRAP with an RPG

I couldn't reproduce it myself, I gave loads of units satchel charges and seek and destroy waypoints but all they did was creep up to the vehicle and then run around it.

It was rather daft and suicidal behavior.

Even when AI in my group and orders to attack vehicles they won't use Explosives.

Edited March 16, 2015 by F2k Sel

[froggyluv 2136]

^^^ That was a feature of an AI mod, Vcom or something like that

[oukej 2911]

Some mass replying :)

some weeks ago i think frequency of enemy detection within danger.fsm ( DCEnemyDetected ) was drastically increased. At least that's what i noticed.

I'm still wondering way DCEnemyDetected was tweaked instead of DCEnemyNear, can you give any insights on this choice?[/Quote]

DCEnemyNear can already or still be more frequent, it's lowest frequency is now about the same as DCEnemyDetected frequency. Not sure if this answers the question? If you find a situation where these would give adverse results let us know.

Our progs are trying to improve performance and there's a lower level refactoring going on - trying to save in parts that can be simplified without noticeable gameplay impact and eventually put it to use somewhere else where it benefits the game more.

Noticed another thing tho, instead of AI sending out pairs of infantry to search the area it now searched as a whole group (7 in group), maybe this is by design or random behavior?

Depends. What combat mode did you use?

...or rotating and firing like this fella in the video...

This happens almost exclusively on shore when transitioning from water. We has it on our list! :)

In fact, Oukej, could you please revisit the AI behaviour regarding slowness when in combat?

On it.

Don't know if I'm hallucination or not but just tested yesterdays build (1.43.129.736) and seeing a major improvement to AI's ability to spot you when prone in ghille!

Glad to hear! Have you been testing the new ghillies?

[somesangheili 111]

Was it in the vanilla version?

Yes of course...and judging by F2k Sel it must be hard to reproduce...they must only do it on disabled vehicles

[HaZZarD 2]

Any ETA on suppressive fire ?

[bonham 10]

Negatory, some time during the alpha or beta I noticed one explosive specialist planting an explosive charge near the Strider I sat in. He ran off without detonating it although he got to a safe distance and stayed alive.

^^^ That was a feature of an AI mod, Vcom or something like that

[SaOk 112]

Just in case, is the "_priorNew > _priorCur"-error related to AI? Made ticket for it earlier:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22979

[das attorney 858]

Yes I would have thought it's the danger.fsm (checking causes of danger)

[chortles 263]

Any ETA on suppressive fire ?

Depends on what you mean, the foundation for their suppression concept is there and from what I recall the last piece of the puzzle is simply adding a causative effect for sufficiently-close fire/explosions increasing affected AI's "dynamic aiming error"; the old but infamous VBS3 Suppression video showed a dialog-based GUI for a group leader from which to command AI subordinates to perform area fire (using a drawn-in-2D box and a depth slider to set the 3D space to fire upon, until a set number of rounds were expended, magazines were used, or time had elapsed), but I recall someone here claiming that AI engaged in this manner did not suffer increased dynamic aiming error or have any real difference in behavior beyond baseline...

[das attorney 858]

On it.

Thanks for acknowledgement - let me know if I can help in any way (repros etc) or if there is anything you are specifically looking for or need to test.

:)

[danil-ch 165]

Oukej, could you please check AI grenade throwing in combat? Back in Alpha AI used them more (a lot!!!) often. :)

[five_seven5-7 56]

Oukej, could you please check AI grenade throwing in combat? Back in Alpha AI used them more (a lot!!!) often. :)

Now it makes sense when they are under supressive fire, throwing smoke grenades or explosive to disrupt sighting. (infantry and mechanized units)

[danil-ch 165]

Now it makes sense when they are under supressive fire, throwing smoke grenades or explosive to disrupt sighting. (infantry and mechanized units)

Infantry don't use smoke at all.

[supercereal4 29]

Oukej, could you please check AI grenade throwing in combat? Back in Alpha AI used them more (a lot!!!) often. :)

I had a grenade thrown at me recently. It hadn't happened in so long that I completely ignored it and passed it off as my eyes fooling me. Then I exploded. :cool:

But AI grenade use does need some more love.

[2nd ranger 282]

Infantry don't use smoke at all.

Except when a guy with a UGL runs out of HE to fire at you but continues shooting smoke rounds because he doesn't know the difference, which needs fixing.

As for AI throwing grenades, I find they do it fairly often.

[Wolfenswan 1]

I just noticed this recently in stable and am not sure if it's a bug or "working as intended":

Since 1.40 helicopter pilots tend to go crazy when given a "transport unload" waypoint and becoming aware of enemies.

Even if the enemy is not engaging them and allowFleeing is set to 0, they will overshoot or completely ignore the unload waypoint, often actually flying *towards* the danger.

Setting the waypoint to "never fire" or disabling "TARGET" & "AUTOTARGET" AI seems to fix the situation. But this seems counter-intuitive and mostly nullifies any defensive potential of the helicopter.

[seba1976 98]

I just noticed this recently in stable and am not sure if it's a bug or "working as intended":

Since 1.40 helicopter pilots tend to go crazy when given a "transport unload" waypoint and becoming aware of enemies.

Even if the enemy is not engaging them and allowFleeing is set to 0, they will overshoot or completely ignore the unload waypoint, often actually flying *towards* the danger.

Setting the waypoint to "never fire" or disabling "TARGET" & "AUTOTARGET" AI seems to fix the situation. But this seems counter-intuitive and mostly nullifies any defensive potential of the helicopter.

Set the combat mode to FIRE AT WILL (YELLOW), set the behaviour to "CARELESS", and disableAI "TARGET" to the pilot only. It works for me all the time, otherwise helis do what you said.

[Wolfenswan 1]

Set the combat mode to FIRE AT WILL (YELLOW), set the behaviour to "CARELESS", and disableAI "TARGET" to the pilot only. It works for me all the time, otherwise helis do what you said.

Interesting, did not know AI would still engage/give firing orders when set to CARELESS.

Anyway, I'll not create a ticket for this, I guess it's just a side effect of improved AI detection. The question of how AI pilots should land by default (without resorting to disabled AI) is a different one.

[seba1976 98]

Interesting, did not know AI would still engage/give firing orders when set to CARELESS.

Yep, they do. It's conterintuitive, but it's documented:

Careless - Careless behaviour will cause the group move and behave in a very non-combat manner. The group will form into a Compact Column like formation, where each unit will directly follow the man in front rather than moving in a formation. Soldiers will carry their weapons in safe position (rifles across body, pistols holstered) and walk slowly. Infantry will not fire on enemy targets (unless they have wounded legs), but vehicles will still fire on enemies. Groups in careless mode do not switch to a more alert mode if enemies are encountered. All unit types show preference moving along roads whenever possible.

The blue text is the what do the trick for the helicopters.

[KeyCat 131]

Depends. What combat mode did you use?

I'm pretty sure they have entered combat mode since they where actively searching around the perimeter and moving towards the perceived enemy location with weapons ready. However I have not been able to replicate it in a later build.

Glad to hear! Have you been testing the new ghillies?

Yes, the minor testing I've managed to do has been with the new ghillies. Hoping to get some free time slots this week(end) for more testing including the old ghillie as well as without ghillie (unless someone else beat me to it).

I'm really happy to see some progress on this long standing issue and I'm sure I'm not alone to enjoy sneaky missions - splendid work!

/KC

[Grumpy Old Man 3545]

The new ghillies are pretty nice combined with AI detection, it might be a bit over the top though.

AI units have a much harder time spotting those new ghillie suits (didn't test with the old one yet),

Doing a quick test with an opfor fireteam moving straight towards a blufor ghillie (on broad daylight, hidden on a flat surface with some regular grass on stratis airstrip) they only take notice of him at around 15m.

30-40m would be a more authentic distance depending on the terrain, but I really like the way it's working now.

[KeyCat 131]

The new ghillies are pretty nice combined with AI detection, it might be a bit over the top though.

Considering that a RL sniper can literally "dissapear" under the right circumstances I disagree. IMO if laying prone in grass and behind a bush completely still with your face looking into ground it should be even harder for AI to spot you. Now they spot you at much less distance before (as you say ~15-20 m) and thats better but it would be even better if that distance shrinked to <2 m. Also considering it's year ~2030 it's not to far fetched to belive that somekind of active battery powered "cloaking device" is a reality. Proof of concepts is already here...

Also look at this picture anno 1995 posted by RobertHammer regarding thermal masking...

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?152866-General-Discussion-(dev-branch)&p=2903262&viewfull=1#post2903262

As you I have only tested on Startis and things may be better on Altis. Will try that tonight.

PS: I understand that the Marksman DLC isn't purely about snipers but IMO the capability to hide from AI in a ghille should been in stock game just like it was in (later versions) of A2 - there the AI did not detect you in grass even if they almost stepped on you in full daylight.

/KC

Edited March 20, 2015 by KeyCat

[cyruz 103]

AI unit that comes under fire will no longer return fire with the same accuracy as when it's not endangered. Projectiles that pass by, impact or explode near an AI unit make its aiming capabilities deteriorate. The more bullets, the closer impacts, the bigger calibers - the stronger the effect. And the longer it takes the AI to recover and stabilize its aim. Especially if the AI's skill is low.

Which skill is modified explicitly, aimingspeed + aimingshake or does it mess with the precisionAI multiplier?

[Maxzy 12]

I think at this stage new system deteriorates AI's aiming capabilities way too much - I considered Infantry Showcase a pretty difficult mission, at least it's middle part, between first and second autosaves, even with AI skill on normal. But with this latest dev version (1.43.129821) its just a walk in the park - AI can't hit anything at almost point blank range as long as I'm shooting in it's general direction. Now I'm constantly seeing situations when two opposing AI's just standing in front of each other at like 10 metres and waste all of their ammo without a single hit. Look at this -

What I like is how AI scanning the horizon now - it is doing it much faster then earlier and more human-like (watching from side to side instead of doing it's usual robotic slow circular turns as if its a tank turret and not a soldier :))

Edited March 19, 2015 by MAXZY
video link added

[Bouben 3]

PS: I understand that the Marksman DLC isn't purely about snipers but IMO the capability to hide from AI in a ghille should been in stock game just like it was in (later versions) of A2 - there the AI did not detect you in grass even if they almost stepped on you in full daylight.

/KC

And then you took a shot and AI immediately knew where you, the sniper, are.

---------- Post added at 01:39 ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 ----------

I think at this stage new system deteriorates AI's aiming capabilities way too much - I considered Infantry Showcase a pretty difficult mission, at least it's middle part, between first and second autosaves, even with AI skill on normal. But with this latest dev version (1.43.129821) its just a walk in the park - AI can't hit anything at almost point blank range as long as I'm shooting in it's general direction. Now I'm constantly seeing situations when two opposing AI's just standing in front of each other at like 10 metres and waste all of their ammo without a single hit. Look at this -

Ha ha, I expected this to happen. This is going to be difficult to get right. Also, suppression should not be only about aiming abilities. It should, most importantly, force units to take cover.