AI Discussion (dev branch)

[Vasily.B 529]

 

 

However, IMO, realistically, rewriting of large parts of AI, their communication, behavior in different scenarios, etc. is only for the wishlist of Arma 4.

Thats easiesr than yout hink. Ba, its done, somehow by auto-medic script, and medic comes on injured soldiers, and healing them. its possible, and its simple, but you need to know engine and its possibilities well, same as on developer level. They could do it in one day.

[froggyluv 2130]

The AI features / skills that you mentioned being in Dragon Rising... They very much surprised me the first I noticed while playing that Codies game. It had some decent parts, indeed.

 

However, IMO, realistically, rewriting of large parts of AI, their communication, behavior in different scenarios, etc. is only for the wishlist of Arma 4.

 

When the legacy RV SQF bollocks are rewritten in something normalized like Enscript and it's time to rework major AI modules / subroutines among other must-have stuff (player controller, etc.).

 

 Ya see this is the problem. Heard that exact statement for Arma 3 and the silence lends me to believe it is and has never been on the dev's planlist. Name one real behaviour since the ability for them to go prone and go under a fence since Arma 2? And now with their timeline out until 2018 with DLC  - will we ever see this expedition into the bowels of AI codex?

 

 No offence but its high time for balls again gents. Codemasters and Farcry are in my opinion inferior games (especially the later) for my type of gaming but honestly their AI do do interesting and unexpected things.We need a subroutine for 'pop up- fire-drop down', we need AI evasion such as running indoors when faced with armor, clear buildings, check and utilize windows and  doors and much much more. Id feel better if devs flat out said "yep Arma 4 itll be there" or "nope.Not now not never" but half the reason im on these forums so much is just waiting like a crazy Evangelical pathetically waits for Rapture..

[Vasily.B 529]

 Ya see this is the problem. Heard that exact statement for Arma 3 and the silence lends me to believe it is and has never been on the dev's planlist. Name one real behaviour since the ability for them to go prone and go under a fence since Arma 2? And now with their timeline out until 2018 with DLC  - will we ever see this expedition into the bowels of AI codex?

 

 No offence but its high time for balls again gents. Codemasters and Farcry are in my opinion inferior games (especially the later) for my type of gaming but honestly their AI do do interesting and unexpected things.We need a subroutine for 'pop up- fire-drop down', we need AI evasion such as running indoors when faced with armor, clear buildings, check and utilize windows and  doors and much much more. Id feel better if devs flat out said "yep Arma 4 itll be there" or "nope.Not now not never" but half the reason im on these forums so much is just waiting like a crazy Evangelical pathetically waits for Rapture..

Yeah.... today was final of my patience with this game, and i sucesfully uninstalled it. I propably will install it for 2018 but now i'm loking for other game with mods for modern warfare.

Show me at least one of today AAA games withaout working savegame, dynamic shadows, and with 32bit architecture. That was too much, and we all know how much bugs this game have. I can count on my finger working features, and cannot count those which dont work (fully, or as intented).

https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?54718-Tactical-AI-%28-Cover-Threat-and-Suppression-%29

[seba1976 98]

but now i'm loking for other game with mods for modern warfare.

 

 

Welp... good luck out there. For there are no other large scale  infantry simulator in existence today. Even when most of the features will be partly broken and malfunctioning, I'll still be trying to script my way through, to keep on getting the extremely unique experience only this series have produce for me... That being said, I agree the experience is becoming more and more frustrating with time, and ignoring the glaring problems of the core mechanics, while announcing new systems and features being added in the future, is not what I'd like to hear from the devs.

[old_painless 182]

I am with Heroes on this - the AI should be able to self-heal and of course not get shot in the process while the "healing" takes place (by not using cover). Compared to other things they are able to do when they put their mind to it, this is not rocket science for BI. Just prioritization. Solve the "find cover on the battlefield" problem and this becomes a shoe-in.

[mad_cheese 592]

this is not rocket science for BI. Just prioritization.

 

I think this sums up everything. Priorities, gotta respect those.

BI can bend spoons with their minds, there has to be reasons why they leave the AI oblivious at times. They have changed many serious issues over the years, when the time was right. I respect dat.

 

BUT, I agree 100%: Would be awesome to see improvements to healing, auto-healing and re-arming routines amongst an ocean of other things. I also think the healing actions can use a do-over but that's just me.

 

May I also note that I do not see a comparison between A3's AI and other games (opinion alert). They are usually great at 2-3 things and oblivious to the rest of the world. But again I agree, sometimes the ideas behind these 2-3 things could heavily improve the capabilities of AI in A3.

[froggyluv 2130]

 Vasily thats just going to obfuscate the discussion as that video has nothing to do with AI at all...

 

 May I also note that I do not see a comparison between A3's AI and other games (opinion alert). They are usually great at 2-3 things and oblivious to the rest of the world. But again I agree, sometimes the ideas behind these 2-3 things could heavily improve the capabilities of AI in A3.

 

 

 Yep this in a nutshell. The thing is just a few AI sub routines that are pretty much industry standard would launch Arma into the stratosphere and its just so weird that there is just no advancement or discussion of anything remotely in this area - suspect a higher up gag order is in effect. Cheese I beleive I seen your C2 mod enables friendly AI to lean on doors before entry -THATS exactly what Im talking about! :P Its possible on this engine yet they dont pursue it at all.

[mad_cheese 592]

Cheese I beleive I seen your C2 mod enables friendly AI to lean on doors before entry -THATS exactly what Im talking about! :P Its possible on this engine yet they dont pursue it at all.

Ha! Yeah, but they often get shot in the process, which is acceptable for me at the moment but BI would get hanged for it :D

Anyways, I know this thread is closely monitored and more considered than we think. If we keep wishing, things will happen, one changelog at a time

 

[Alwarren 2765]

I am with Heroes on this - the AI should be able to self-heal and of course not get shot in the process while the "healing" takes place (by not using cover). Compared to other things they are able to do when they put their mind to it, this is not rocket science for BI. Just prioritization. Solve the "find cover on the battlefield" problem and this becomes a shoe-in.

 

I agree that the AI *should* do it, but the reality is they don't, so simply removing the "Heal Yourself" command and making it automatic will not solve the problem. Seeking cover will. 

[old_painless 182]

I agree that the AI *should* do it, but the reality is they don't, so simply removing the "Heal Yourself" command and making it automatic will not solve the problem. Seeking cover will. 

Yeah, I don't think that the option/command should be removed either. But the AI should be able to invoke self-healing when they felt it necessary, like if they can "sense" that their aim is off or that their damage have moved their skill level sufficiently low. You know, you start out with skill at .98, get shot, now you're at .56. Heal or no heal?

 

As a team leader we should be able to force self-healing, through that command. Because maybe we know that we are in for a long trek and we need everyone fit, even though the damage levels are not severe enough to trigger automatic self-healing by the AI.

[Vasily.B 529]

So in short, beacuse from simple tip, we are going for too long discussion.
- Self healing should be available manually/ automaticly behind cover
- Wounded unit should seek for cover and heal himself while under fire ("COMBAT" behavior)
- While "AWARE", unit can heal himself also in the open, by standing in formation.

I think its totally enough.

[R0adki11 3945]

Off topic posts removed, if you want to talk about other engines or games please do so in the off topic section. This thread is for Arma3 AI Discussion, failure to do so may result in forum penalties been issued  :alien:

[inlesco 233]

So in short, beacuse from simple tip, we are going for too long discussion.

- Self healing should be available manually/ automaticly behind cover

- Wounded unit should seek for cover and heal himself while under fire ("COMBAT" behavior)

- While "AWARE", unit can heal himself also in the open, by standing in formation.

I think its totally enough.

Excuse me for disturbing the discussion, but... why would a unit heal himself when in AWARE mode and NOT under fire? What hurt him in this case? A vehicle hit him, a tank drove on his leg, someone friendly punched him in the face? (:D)

 

Because, IMO, in most cases (like, 95% of situations), a unit must heal himself when hit while under fine.

 

And, from my experience, a unit doesn't automatically enter COMBAT mode immediately when under fire. It depends on situation and behavior configuration (be it connected to waypoint or smth else).

[Vasily.B 529]

Excuse me for disturbing the discussion, but... why would a unit heal himself when in AWARE mode and NOT under fire? What hurt him in this case? A vehicle hit him, a tank drove on his leg, someone friendly punched him in the face? ( :D)

 

Because, IMO, in most cases (like, 95% of situations), a unit must heal himself when hit while under fine.

 

And, from my experience, a unit doesn't automatically enter COMBAT mode immediately when under fire. It depends on situation and behavior configuration (be it connected to waypoint or smth else).

Please read my post once again....

 

 

So in short, beacuse from simple tip, we are going for too long discussion.

- Self healing should be available manually/ automaticly behind cover

- Wounded unit should seek for cover and heal himself while under fire ("COMBAT" behavior)

- While "AWARE", unit can heal himself also in the open, by standing in formation.

I think its totally enough.

Unit enter autocombat, after they detect someone shooted at him (hear fly-by bullet).

With "aware" i mean situations like friendly fire, nearby explosion damage, vehicle ramming etc.

[mad_cheese 592]

So in short, beacuse from simple tip, we are going for too long discussion.

- Self healing should be available manually/ automaticly behind cover

I think its totally enough.

 

move to cover - is that a thing? I mean, we have this abstract x-1-8 engine level control as a player but ya know... it's weird.

 

I know making units find cover is a pickle and was always thinking that's why the command for it never worked.

 

It would really be nice to revise the findCover command <3. Or dunno, BIS_fnc_findCover or something like that. Would be a blessing.

[old_painless 182]

@mad_cheese: You may have tested this already, but a theory could be that find cover actually does work, but the autocombat is preventing them from executing. How about disabling autocombat (you recently put that in C2, thankyou!) and then see if find cover is still broken/erratic?

 

-OP

[Vasily.B 529]

I need to ask:
Why behavior in armored vehicles is not changing till someone shoot to them with RPG or from other tank? I can count on my finger situations, when my tank crew was in "Combat" mode (from 850 hours played)

[bravo409 13]

What we need is the KAi ai mod thats out but some people in the community will not share such things thus we get to suffer with what we have been given.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eKANN0Qt4c

[Vasily.B 529]

What we need is the KAi ai mod thats out but some people in the community will not share such things thus we get to suffer with what we have been given.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eKANN0Qt4c

Did i saw well - this jeep was face front to enemy threat?

This should be adopted in Game engine asap! I wonder why BIS wont ask some of script makers to "take" their addons into game engine.

[en3x 209]

This should be adopted in Game engine asap! I wonder why BIS wont ask some of script makers to "take" their addons into game engine.

 

Because one thing is scripts or SQF and another is C++ knowledge of coding.

And in C++ world all different systems are interconnected and it isn't as simple

as we may think.

[mad_cheese 592]

Did i saw well - this jeep was face front to enemy threat?

This should be adopted in Game engine asap! I wonder why BIS wont ask some of script makers to "take" their addons into game engine.

 

Coincedence I believe. Sometimes the most powerful feature of this universe lol :D

[john111 76]

Yes, something like Kai system is needed in A3.

[Vasily.B 529]

Can anyone check if this is still present on dev branch?

(PS put your volume down at max to avoid heart attack)

[Vasily.B 529]

Today i want ask for something that could be revolution for AI infantry.
Its dynamic cover system (i dont know exac name) - used in GTA IV, GTA V, now in Mafia 3, Max Payne 3, and many other games.

Is it possible to adapt it into new (or current) engine?

Right now, current system isnt bad, but AI dont handle it too good. Very often me, and my 1 Ai friend are walking through the village - shootfire - autocombat start - and he think hes hidden. But he is on the barn's wall, and he choose wrong wall to cover, beacuse he is standing in direction where ai was shooting from. This happen very often.

Now with new dynamic cover, Ai could have new line in code, which would seek where fire was from then seek for cover against this fire. I know You at Bohemia have motion capture studio, dynamic covers would lok much better on AI's, and its possible IMHO. I would love to see it on dev branch soon :)

[mad_cheese 592]

Today i want ask for something that could be revolution for AI infantry.

Its dynamic cover system (i dont know exac name) - used in GTA IV, GTA V, now in Mafia 3, Max Payne 3, and many other games.

Is it possible to adapt it into new (or current) engine?

 

It would be easy to make an addon for that, not that I'm an expert but all you need is code and animations. To acquire code and money, you shall spend time money.

 

The engine is more than capable of this. There was an addon for Arma 2 called SMK, actually it was soooooo good.

 

 

Jump to animation: https://youtu.be/DK7UJdBhRNU?t=3m31s

 

On the bright side, look at how this was 2011 and then in 2013 we got Arma 3 with stance-adjustments, which is also what this addon was used for.

 

Glueing your back to a cover object and being able to move along it's sides (the 'cover system' essentially) would be immense - I actually fell in the marketing trap of a few games just because of this feature. Like 'The Division'.. That one marketing video made me sign a petition, wait for 2 years and spend 100Dolos. What did I end up with... 3h of disappointing gameplay, but I did enjoy moving along cars while my guy slaps a taxi door... because you know, he can.

 

Anyways... there's a considerable gap between available animations and AI already, they do not use a lot of great animations that are in the game. As in all things BIS, it's less about their capabilities as their priorities but I do agree 100%, it would be awesome to have Mr. Miyagi teach the AI some "flow" and "style" at this point of their evolution.

But yeah, there's two things... On the one hand there's a lack of "cover system" for even the human player. That's really the more important feature imo. Totally possible within the engine (as are most things I believe). Anyways, I see in GTA and Mafia videos that AI do it, that's what really impresses me. 

 

So my point is I guess, I agree that this would be a huge feature. Be it for AI or just for the human players to begin with (in form of stance-adjusting-animations). 

 

I would love to see it on dev branch soon :)

Haha! Oh how good that would be.

Also, something general, really do not want to come across as a 8====> but when it comes to features that would 'revolutionize' the game - they know. I do not want to digress but I did a lot of research on VBS recently and it's quite mind-numbing what these guys are capable of.

I say this in total accordance with those statements. It would revolutionize this or that aspect, no doubt :)