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Sounds reasonably. Waste of ammo trying to shoot something 800-900 unless you got a proper sniper rifle.

If you are not familiar with military affairs directly, see the combat video on YouTube. 90 percent of the time soldiers shoot with rifles and machine guns just to the side of the enemy at a distance of a kilometer or more. exceptions are urban combat.

Besides, I do not suggest  AI to decide what is beneficial. I ordered to open fire but they just overcame the target and wait

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Is it AI limitation? AI see and tell by radio protocol they see enemy. But  they don`t shoot. Even when I put crosshair at enemy and order to atack.

AI can`t engage enemy at distance more 800-900m .they  Aim at enemy and wait and wait . same with all weapon and optics excluding marksman weapons and sniper rifles..

skill and aim=1

It happens to me very often. I was in Stratis port, and ordered to attack man 70M from us (me and AI folks) the machine gunner (enemy) started to fire, all of my folks was down, even they got order to fire at him. They did nothing except chicken run in unexpected, unlogical ways.

Same with AI accuracy at shooting on lowest settings. (one shot kill)

I take a brake of this game/

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Is it AI limitation? AI see and tell by radio protocol they see enemy. But  they don`t shoot. Even when I put crosshair at enemy and order to atack.

AI can`t engage enemy at distance more 800-900m .they  Aim at enemy and wait and wait . same with all weapon and optics excluding marksman weapons and sniper rifles..

skill and aim=1

Engagement range is a (per weapon IIRC) configuration parameter and can easily be changed by de devs or modders. Big changes don't happen very often though, because the increased amount of shooting and missing adds a whole bunch of needed ammo conservation stuff which the AI currently knows pretty much nothing about, and just making them shoot further could break a whole bunch of currently existing missions.

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If you are not familiar with military affairs directly, see the combat video on YouTube. 90 percent of the time soldiers shoot with rifles and machine guns just to the side of the enemy at a distance of a kilometer or more. exceptions are urban combat.

Besides, I do not suggest  AI to decide what is beneficial. I ordered to open fire but they just overcame the target and wait

Just so wrong, 1000M's is well beyond the "effective range" of 90% of any squad weapons, especially the likes of the AK and M4 series. It's highly unlikely they'd be simply wasting ammo trying to drop bad guys sitting around the 1000M mark, especially with issued ammo.

Heavier Caliber Rounds MAY have an effect, but you're talking about specialist weapons, having spent 13 years in Iraq, on two way ranges in the earlier days, anything past 500M's wasn't worth engaging without wasting ammo, average distance was between 200-400M's as they also want to achieve the same results you do, and they'll not hit fuck all from 1000M's, way too many variables to consider.

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If you are not familiar with military affairs directly, see the combat video on YouTube. 90 percent of the time soldiers shoot with rifles and machine guns just to the side of the enemy at a distance of a kilometer or more. exceptions are urban combat.

Besides, I do not suggest  AI to decide what is beneficial. I ordered to open fire but they just overcame the target and wait

No Im not. But I spent one year in the Finish coastal rangers and has been shooting since then. IPSC pistol and rifle, I also shoot stronger rifles on longer ranges and load my own ammuntion so I know assault rifles are not effective past 500m and why.

So no I havent engaged anyone for real, but neither do I base my opinion on youtube.

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I spent  15 month  in the hostilities in  the rank of sergeant at Transcaucasia. and it was a real war

in 15 months I fired about 30,000 5.45PS  . And it's quite a bit.

 I well  know that the aiming  shoot 5.45 of more than 200 meters it is useless. (300max with PSO sight).

But this did not prevent the US Army to spend  more than  5,000 rounds per enemy in Vietnam Or in Iraq. 

This is the flip side of war. Where the smart bombs fly in  the window but where do you hope that one of your hundreds of bullets hit the enemy.

A huge role here plays the psychological aspect. morale the most important thing for a soldier.

No one spare bullets in the war (if you do not cut off from the supply base somewhere in the desert).

I know this from my  experience, And as I see it on combat video from around the world -War everywhere ---- 90% suppressive fire.

One bullet -one death is  only for snipers.

this post  finish the discussion of excerpts from real life

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At the Moment the AI uses choppers very bad. Light attack helicopter like the Pawnee mostly don't hit anything. You can't use them to attack Infatry, vehicles or anything else. As zeus i placed a CSAT squad. Then i placed a Pawnee and gave him the order to attack the soldiers. A few seconds later he was destroyed without making a single kill. I placed another chopper who got shot down too. I procceded this. After the squad shot down 4 choppers they nearly stopped shooting at the fifth one (They still had tons of ammo no idear why they stopped attacking). Finally the fifth chopper was able to make some kills. But after 20min still some of the CSAT squad were alive.

But the behaviour of heavy attack choppers is not much bether. Mostly they only use their guided missiles on a distance more then 3000m. I spawned 5 Kajman 1000m arround a mora. The mora destroyed all of them without problems. The heavy attack choppers attack very inefectiv and are nearly useless in most cases.

 

 

 

So after you finished your discussion (Quite interessting and matches with what i have heard about this topic), i would really like to hear some more opinions about my chopper problem. Do you even experience the same strange chopper behaviour? I know the problem with light attack helicopter hovering in the air waiting to be shot is well known. But what about the Heavy attack helicopter like the Katjman? Half a year ago they worked pretty well for me. But now they often refuse to attack like you can see in my videos. No im not using mods. I already postet this problem in the feedback tracker. But like my other post it doesn't look like somebody noticed it. Right now i think its absoulutely useless to give the AI controll about a chopper. What's your oppinion?

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So after you finished your discussion (Quite interessting and matches with what i have heard about this topic), i would really like to hear some more opinions about my chopper problem. Do you even experience the same strange chopper behaviour? I know the problem with light attack helicopter hovering in the air waiting to be shot is well known. But what about the Heavy attack helicopter like the Katjman? Half a year ago they worked pretty well for me. But now they often refuse to attack like you can see in my videos. No im not using mods. I already postet this problem in the feedback tracker. But like my other post it doesn't look like somebody noticed it. Right now i think its absoulutely useless to give the AI controll about a chopper. What's your oppinion?

It was noticed by OUKEJ, one of developers (if i'm not mistaken). And he wrote to use:

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/allowFleeing

Parameter. I was going to made next addon, but its out of my skills :

http://www.armaholic.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=35840&n=last#bottom

You need to add this allowfleeing 0 with every chopper in editor, in downloaded, original, WS missions and campaigns WE must suffer lack of attack or reaction capabilities of pilots. If fix is so easy as adding allowfleeing for every air class please someone, make this small addon. It would fix all choppers - vanilla/modded.

PS :

Issue is really terrible and should be fixed ASAP, right now CAS support is useless.

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It was noticed by OUKEJ, one of developers (if i'm not mistaken). And he wrote to use:

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/allowFleeing

Parameter. I was going to made next addon, but its out of my skills :

http://www.armaholic.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=35840&n=last#bottom

You need to add this allowfleeing 0 with every chopper in editor, in downloaded, original, WS missions and campaigns WE must suffer lack of attack or reaction capabilities of pilots. If fix is so easy as adding allowfleeing for every air class please someone, make this small addon. It would fix all choppers - vanilla/modded.

PS :

Issue is really terrible and should be fixed ASAP, right now CAS support is useless.

yep your totally right

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why no one says that AI can`t fly at altitudes above 800 meters? AI make   endless circles . This is the highlight of the DLC helicopters?

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oh that's right. I'll co-sign that. Choppers do perform very badly at high altitudes, I was beginning to think that could be a thing in real life since I also (totally unsure about this) I felt like it gets harder to control choppers in those altitudes as a player.

 

Will post  a repro later

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why no one says that AI can`t fly at altitudes above 800 meters? AI make   endless circles . This is the highlight of the DLC helicopters?

propably :D

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most of time it depends on maps and helicopter speed. For exampe with your C2 mod I can order AI to fly 1000m at limited speed on stratis. But when we on Altis AI turns into drunk pilot. Same with all CUP maps.

1000m is not very hight altitude for heli in real life

 

oh that's right. I'll co-sign that. Choppers do perform very badly at high altitudes, I was beginning to think that could be a thing in real life since I also (totally unsure about this) I felt like it gets harder to control choppers in those altitudes as a player.

 

Will post  a repro later

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even paid dlc not correct those features of the game which they relate

visual upgrade- don`t fix  super glitch textures 

helicopter dlc -make AI freez into air and drunk at hight altitudes

and instead to fix important bugs,  developers change the color of the doors in the buildings, the number of mag from 5 to 5.5. in compaign and e.t.c

if developers only focus on the little things why no suppressor for M320LLR. I`m waiting for this since 2013.

it is not agressive post. Only facts that surprise me

note. not  a one word about the  3FPS bug. I`m understand that there is a problem in the engine, and it take long time reserch and fix

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Hey,

 

I made a repro and video for the high-altitude-piloting bug:

 

 

Repro Mission (contains editor-folder and pbo): http://www.mediafire.com/file/ov31w3837wdjdub/AI_High_Altitudes.rar

So while I'm happy to have found a workaround for my personal beef with this issue, I still think in regards to the DLC, this would make sense to be adressed unless there is really some idea behind it.

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Hey,

 

I made a repro and video for the high-altitude-piloting bug:

 

 

Repro Mission (contains editor-folder and pbo): http://www.mediafire.com/file/ov31w3837wdjdub/AI_High_Altitudes.rar

So while I'm happy to have found a workaround for my personal beef with this issue, I still think in regards to the DLC, this would make sense to be adressed unless there is really some idea behind it.

I dont know what other company except BI can have such community - found bug, record video, make repro mission. Thats best testers ever born! :P ;)

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"Heal Yourself" needs to be taken behind the shed and shot.

We should never have to command an AI with the ability to heal himself to do so.

Have you ever seen an enemy AI medic getting shot? He immediately heals himself after the first bullet, only assuring the next shots will kill him. This will be the behavior for human commanded AI if BIS will agree with you. As long as the AI has its limitations, the "heal yourself" command must stay human controlled.

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In case the devs are out of things to do, this bug has been around a while:

 

 

AI leader at guard waypoint will repeat attack command infinitely if his group is unable to attack the revealed target

 

Please :)

Arma world ! :D

 

Have you ever seen an enemy AI medic getting shot? He immediately heals himself after the first bullet, only assuring the next shots will kill him. This will be the behavior for human commanded AI if BIS will agree with you. As long as the AI has its limitations, the "heal yourself" command must stay human controlled.

Never. As i made simple addon, with help of many people (everyone knew how to make it, i think Arma developers too) to crew get out of tank to repair it after there is no enemy nearby  same MUST be done with auto healing. Right now i see my teammates walking hurt, when group leader is AI. Everything in this game is on knees, but auto healing and rearming is basic functions of infantry warfare. If tanks are jumping, amphibiousses cant swim, drivers cant drive, choppers are just hovering and waiting to die, lets just fix infatry for god sake.

No offense, just summing facts. We have payed for this game devs, had no alternative for those updates. Remember this.

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Well, of course if they can easily make the AI automatically heal itself (and I might add, also other friendly units in the team) only when it's safe I'm all for it. Not a high priority gap, but still a requirement.

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Well, of course if they can easily make the AI automatically heal itself (and I might add, also other friendly units in the team) only when it's safe I'm all for it. Not a high priority gap, but still a requirement.

Or when there is no enemy in 400M radious (Ai detection range for now). Rearming is also easy to fix, i writed them what action need to be removed, which replaced and all should work. Just "a few code lines" need to be changed., but since A1, none of developers done this. So why they keep not working functions in game, and AI repeatly uses them? I'm sick of "no ammo" , "7, rearm at 6 o'clock", "ready" (at same time), and after minute "no ammo".

 

Thats beacuse they take some damm grenades instead of mags. They should remove or change action name responsible for AI rearm order, beacuse now they use default action (same as you can, when near ammo crate or dead body) "take ammo" Which mean take grenade, take chemlight, take xxxx, but not rearm. Rearm Action Must be limited ONLY to bodies, ammo points, that contain same ammo as unit that need it. Right now, we dont really know where unit will rearm (we have 69 actions in order "action", and none of them describe the rearm place). This is 2016, i'm happy they planing such improvements as they described on roadmap, but Jay, sorry, are you blind? Basic functions dont work since 2003 or 2004......

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Have you ever seen an enemy AI medic getting shot? He immediately heals himself after the first bullet, only assuring the next shots will kill him. This will be the behavior for human commanded AI if BIS will agree with you. As long as the AI has its limitations, the "heal yourself" command must stay human controlled.

The heal yourself command is glorified babysitting. These are supposed to be soldiers in a military sim.

I think maybe you and I are on the opposite spectrums of glass half full, glass half empty. Where you see a unit trying to heal himself inevitably getting shot because apparently 5 seconds can't be spared to SAVE his own life, I see a totally immobile and useless soldier that can't get himself into proper cover, that I have to actually stop fighting and defending myself for just to press the damn Fkey plus 6, even though he has an FAK on him, otherwise he'll get killed. And with a team of me and 9 AI, that's a whole hell of a lot of Fkey + 6 mucking about when I should be fighting and ordering strategic positioning.

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The heal yourself command is glorified babysitting. These are supposed to be soldiers in a military sim.

 

Reality check, please. The reality is that if an AI commands the unit, they will tell him to heal himself the moment he reports "injured", and thus getting shot. What needs to happen is that the AI is taught to take cover FIRST and then heal itself, but sadly this is not the case, so I don't see how you contradict Variable's assessment that the "heal yourself" command must remain human controlled.

 

What I actually find sad is that a game like Dragon Rising which was widely bashed as a pretender and made fun of by a lot of people actually did a better job at it. You still had to order your AI, but when they did they would move into cover themselves before healing up. Plus, they would get out of fixed gun emplacements when they couldn't swivel the gun far enough to shoot at someone that was attacking them.

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Reality check, please. The reality is that if an AI commands the unit, they will tell him to heal himself the moment he reports "injured", and thus getting shot. What needs to happen is that the AI is taught to take cover FIRST and then heal itself, but sadly this is not the case, so I don't see how you contradict Variable's assessment that the "heal yourself" command must remain human controlled.

 

What I actually find sad is that a game like Dragon Rising which was widely bashed as a pretender and made fun of by a lot of people actually did a better job at it. You still had to order your AI, but when they did they would move into cover themselves before healing up. Plus, they would get out of fixed gun emplacements when they couldn't swivel the gun far enough to shoot at someone that was attacking them.

The AI features / skills that you mentioned being in Dragon Rising... They very much surprised me the first I noticed while playing that Codies game. It had some decent parts, indeed.

 

However, IMO, realistically, rewriting of large parts of AI, their communication, behavior in different scenarios, etc. is only for the wishlist of Arma 4.

 

When the legacy RV SQF bollocks are rewritten in something normalized like Enscript and it's time to rework major AI modules / subroutines among other must-have stuff (player controller, etc.).

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