AI Discussion (dev branch)

[oukej 2910]

Can someone confirm that the "copy my stance" command is broken? (dev branch, not modded, for a while now)

I what way? The name used to be misleading, it doesn't make the AI copy your stance. We also renamed it to "Automatic stance".

[Guest]

I what way? The name used to be misleading, it doesn't make the AI copy your stance. We also renamed it to "Automatic stance".

Well, in all cases AI doesn't react to this order, and I remember using it to force them in a stance, back it time.

[R3vo 2652]

I what way? The name used to be misleading, it doesn't make the AI copy your stance. We also renamed it to "Automatic stance".

 

Maybe I am wrong, but wasn't the functionality in the Alpha that they would copy  one's stance? I found that very handy back then. Any chance to get that back?

[Guest]

//the thread about AI driving is locked, is it intended? Wouldn't it be better to report feedback there ?
 
I've got a question!

We also will be looking into configuring different vehicles, [...].

Do you mean "we will add this to other classes of vehicles" or "we will configure different cars"?
If it's the second case, then do you plan to add this to armoured vehicles, or to overhaul AI helicopter driving later?

[Vasily.B 529]

Not sure if I've missed something maybe, but it doesn't seem to be possible to command a tank crew while you're turned out.

Upon turning out, the vehicle UI disappears and I am unable to give driving directions.

I'm guessing this is a bug, as it would seem otherwise illogical.

Reported month (or 3 weeks) ago :) But nice catch ;)

[R3vo 2652]

//the thread about AI driving is locked, is it intended? Wouldn't it be better to report feedback there ?

 

I've got a question!

Do you mean "we will add this to other classes of vehicles" or "we will configure different cars"?

If it's the second case, then do you plan to add this to armoured vehicles, or to overhaul AI helicopter driving later?

 

From what I understand it's per vehicle since one has to tweak some configs.

 

Finally, the purpose is to give us and mod-makers better ways to configure AI driving behaviors per vehicle,

 

 

 

//the thread about AI driving is locked, is it intended? Wouldn't it be better to report feedback there ?

 

 

And inbefore you go with "its broken", yes, there was an issue with Physx vehicles, fix is incoming. I will unlock the thread once the fix safely lands on dev-branch

 

(Not sure if you read that)

[klamacz 447]

From what I understand it's per vehicle since one has to tweak some configs.

 

Yes, power of configs allows us and you also, to have default set of configuration for all Cars, and then specialize the params (or tweak them) per each vehicle, if we need to.

And also yes, it is planned to be expanded on other vehicle types.

[Guest]

(Not sure if you read that)

Oh, I missed the end of the sentence :D

 

 

Yes, power of configs allows us and you also, to have default set of configuration for all Cars, and then specialize the params (or tweak them) per each vehicle, if we need to.

And also yes, it is planned to be expanded on other vehicle types.

Thank you for the intels :)

[R3vo 2652]

Yes, power of configs allows us and you also, to have default set of configuration for all Cars, and then specialize the params (or tweak them) per each vehicle, if we need to.

And also yes, it is planned to be expanded on other vehicle types.

 

Which is awesome! From what you told use thus far, it sounds very promising.

[fn_Quiksilver 1633]

Is there something new/different with the jet/dogfighting AI?

 

1.63.xxxxxx  they are a couple steps up in skill from 1.58-1.60, not sure whats going on, whether intended or 'a bug' :)

[x3kj 1247]

Not sure if I've missed something maybe, but it doesn't seem to be possible to command a tank crew while you're turned out.

Upon turning out, the vehicle UI disappears and I am unable to give driving directions.

I'm guessing this is a bug, as it would seem otherwise illogical.

You can command crew when turned out, but not if you are in a FFV position. (i.e. Commander of Moira can't command driver turned out, but Gunner can.)

[road runner 4344]

Hide and seek in a corn field, 3 CSAT different patrol paths, they couldn't spot me!!  Awesome!! :D I was able to get with 2-3 M's and kill them most of the time. Awesome work Devs.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

I really wish they'd work on the way the AI speaks.

For one, friendly unmanned BLUFOR speedboats and assault boats are always shouted out by the BLUFOR player as enemy contact. This bug has been in the game for forever. And if I have some friendly BLUFOR set to move waypoints to make my bases look a bit for lively, my guy is consult shouting "Contact. 75 meters up ahead." Etc.

It's an immersion killer.

I get that the AI wants to shout out potential contact, but when I'm spawning on my own base as the credits roll at mission start it's a little silly.

[Vasily.B 529]

I just realised i writed about tanks issue in wrong thread. But there is a problem with tank's brakes. Overall all tracked veh. are affected.
- Driving downhill (Ai controll tank) and giving them waypoint to stop, always resoult they drive at full speed through the waypoint an moving further without thrust, and stoping much further.
- Dirving on people is related to brakes as well.
Vehicles could not keep formation effective - its related to brakes too - try to be commander of tank platoon, drive max speed and stop - rest of tanks will move further for while, then they will rotate tank (face engine part to enemy) to return to formation, and stop with engine faced to opponent.

[tortuosit 485]

BIS, will you at some point make changes to this old story? I really appreciate you adress some oooold issues in ArmA...

 

-> AI INSTANTLY knows that you are an enemy to them.

 

Rydygier adressed this topic with his ryd_incognito on modders side...

[road runner 4344]

BIS, will you at some point make changes to this old story? I really appreciate you adress some oooold issues in ArmA...

 

-> AI INSTANTLY knows that you are an enemy to them.

 

Rydygier adressed this topic with his ryd_incognito on modders side...

Isn't that natural, in that OPFOR know you're the Enemy and BLUFOR know OPFOR are the bad guys?

or do you mean they're detecting you too quickly ?

[aljoedfro 2]

I dont know where I fit in this discussion as I'm just jumping in but I really feel that AI behavior is one key aspect that should be much better. I'm not a developer, and I'm sure there's a lot that goes into scripting ai and alot that has already been done, but i would still like to see some improvement. The biggest thing that needs work is just stuff that a real person would never do; what first comes to mind is when youre shooting at an ai and they just stand there with their feet spread continuing staring right at you. no. in most cases a human would evasively maneuver, whether it be crouching, going prone, or running to cover. especially if they are getting direct hit. the other major change id like to see is, say there is an intense firefight going on on one side of a hill, and on the other side the ai will just be standing there. in real life, soldiers would hear this and run to investigate. another one is sometimes you will shoot an enemy at close range and he will look back at you and return one or two bullets and then immediately turn away. another, when you walk in a house they shouldnt be standing in the corner facing the wall. and finally, sometimes ai will just run one after another into a spray of bullets. anyway keep up the good work, BI. I love tanoa.

[ImperialAlex 72]

What's the formula behind skillAI and precisionAI's influence on final skill values?
I understand how CfgAiSkill interpolates the values (it's nicely documented on the wiki) but what's the formula that skillAI and precisionAI use internally?
For those that aren't quite up-to-date with the new system that was recently introduced (OPREP), the wiki category page for AI has the most recent information.
 
I did some basic testing to investigate how skillAI and precisionAI transform the values. This is ignoring the interpolation done by CfgAiSkill. Note that CfgAiSkill leaves all but three subskills unmodified anyway. The graphs are to be read as follows:

Y-axis is the transformed final (sub)skill (ignoring CfgAiSkill) that results from setting a skill to X-axis value.

The graphs show skillAI/precisionAI at 1, 0.5 and 0, respectively.

 

 

 

 

 

It seems like 0.2 is where the magic happens. The transformation is made up of two linear segments, one from 0 to 0.2 and one from 0.2 to 1. While the first segment always starts a 0 on the y-axis the second segment does not always end at 1 on the y-axis. I.e. setting your skillAI/precisionAI to anything less than 1 will mean that even "unit skill 1" will not give a skillFinal of 1.

Sadly no value of skillAI/precisionAI will ever result in a completely linear transformation (i.e. skill = skillFinal, at least when ignoring CfgAiSkill interpolations that happens to certain subskills). 0.5 is close but not entirely linear, going up to only 0.9 skillFinal.

 

 

What do these curves/graphs even mean?

skillAI/precisionAI changes the way the skill-slider in the editor (or, for scripters, the (sub)skill command) affects the final result. Depending on the chosen skillAI/precisionAI the (sub)skill values are transformed into final skill values that are either higher or lower than the value that the slider (non-final 'skill') indicates. Set your skillAI to 1 and suddenly the 20% position on the slider actually results in a 60% finalSkill. 

 

But what does it mean for me as a modder/mission maker?

If you're making missions for a community that always plays with the same skillAI/precisionAI you can look at the curve that best fits your communities values and use it to predict the skillFinal of your units (less trial&error).

If you want your mission to feel 'good' with various skillAI/precisionAI settings then you're going to have to realise that 20% (0.2) is a magic threshold below which you cannot predict anything. A 30% unit could be three times as clever as a 10% unit but it could also be virtually the same. Since units with very low skills don't tend to act nicely anyway this probably won't actually influence missions all that much. Just never use values below 20% and you'll always be able to rely on the fact that there'll be a linear slope between 20% and 100%. (EDIT: The GUI sliders in 3den/zeus only go down to 20% anyway)

 

Why the two slopes/break at 0.2?

Good question. It's a bit of an odd choice. I would personally think that a system like CfgAISkill uses (interpolation into new bounds) would be easier to understand for players. However that'd require setting min/max values which might be too many settings. Since there is no value that will result in a linear transformation I'd like to make a feature request and ask that "-1" be accepted as a value for the server.cfg values skillAI and precisionAI in custom AI settings and that it result in a completely linear 1:1 transformation. This would make things a bit easier for mission designers that are making missions for their communities, allowing them to know that skill = skillFinal (if ignoring CfgAiSkill).

[Rydygier 1302]

Isn't that natural, in that OPFOR know you're the Enemy and BLUFOR know OPFOR are the bad guys?

or do you mean they're detecting you too quickly ?

 

It's about AI's knowledge, you're of hostile side/a target to shoot at without logically required data to know such thing. Let's say you're in a civilian or their/allied side origining vehicle hundred meters away. Or wearing non-distinctive clothes. Etc. 

 

First thing is to notice, someone is around. Second - where he is exactly. Third - to determine, who exactly he is, ally, enemy or neutral. More human-like, more context-sensitive detection would be great improvement IMHO for each of these three. 

[Jack-Johnson 7]

@ImperialAlex

Thx for the explanation.

Can you eplain to me what´s the best way to handle my two ingame sliders as a player that usualy downloads random missions from the workshop.

Is the AI Precision Slider even relevant for your calculations? Normaly i keep my Skill slider between 0.5-0.7 but even with precision slider to 0,3 they are still really accurate.

When i use mod´s like ASR AI, where do they influence the whole prozess?.

[ImperialAlex 72]

@ImperialAlex

Thx for the explanation.

Can you eplain to me what´s the best way to handle my two ingame sliders as a player that usualy downloads random missions from the workshop.

Is the AI Precision Slider even relevant for your calculations? Normaly i keep my Skill slider between 0.5-0.7 but even with precision slider to 0,3 they are still really accurate.

When i use mod´s like ASR AI, where do they influence the whole prozess?.

 

skillAI influences all subskills except aimingAccuracy and aimingShake which are influenced by precisionAI. You can find an explanation of what each subskill does here: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/AI_Sub-skills

As a player, it's going to be very hard to anticipate what a mission designer has done. The editor by default spawns in units with a skill (non-final) of around 0.4-0.5 however some mission designers change that to have a (non-final) skill of 0.7-1.0

So you're basically going to have to trial&error it unless you look into the mission and see what the AI skills are actually set at, keeping in mind that scripts can later override the editor default settings. I'd recommend keeping skillAI high, around 0.7+ and precisionAI low (0.3) and setting to very low (0-0.2) if AI is still being stupidly accurate.  (The very low values are in case a mission designer has set the unit skill to 0.8+ in which case you want to the precision AI as low as possible. If the mission designer has set the unit skill to around 0.5 you can keep the precisionAI at 0.3-0.4 and still be fine.

 

Mods like ASR AI do a great many things. Most of them will override CfgAiSkills which is another layer of transformations on the subskills. In vanilly, only a few subskills (spot distance, etc) are influenced by this. AI mods use CfgAiSkills more extensively to basically adjust the balance of subskills relative to each other. They also tend to include scripted components which can do tons of hard to predict things :)

[road runner 4344]

It's about AI's knowledge, you're of hostile side/a target to shoot at without logically required data to know such thing. Let's say you're in a civilian or their/allied side origining vehicle hundred meters away. Or wearing non-distinctive clothes. Etc. 

 

First thing is to notice, someone is around. Second - where he is exactly. Third - to determine, who exactly he is, ally, enemy or neutral. More human-like, more context-sensitive detection would be great improvement IMHO for each of these three. 

That makes more sense, thanks

[KeyCat 131]

...he other major change id like to see is, say there is an intense firefight going on on one side of a hill, and on the other side the ai will just be standing there. in real life, soldiers would hear this and run to investigate.

 

You can control this with a WP instead of just putting down a squad without an WP just add a single guard WP to the squad and the will pretty much do what you want (haven't tested how far away they react but they do react to firefights nearby).

 

/KC

 

[fn_Quiksilver 1633]

players on our server reporting intense jungle firefights and sneaking up on AI

 

+1 BAI minions

[mickeymen 322]

In the 1.60, we received the Suppressive command and is the perfect complement to this update.

But unfortunately "Suppressive command" only works for the player. 

I noticed what any AI-commander never uses it.

BIS please teach the AI-commanders under certain conditions, to use this ability against player or against other enemy AI.

This feature, will make AI opponents more interesting and dangerous.