Jump to content

Recommended Posts

The camouflage value is defined in the unit's class, and uniforms have a reference to these unit classes. So what you're wearing matters.

 

But last time I checked (around v1.44), the effect of if was very minor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The camouflage value is defined in the unit's class, and uniforms have a reference to these unit classes. So what you're wearing matters.

 

 

I'm not sure I follow... you're saying the guillie suit has a reference to the CSAT sniper, so if I wear the guillie, I inherit the CSAT sniper's camouflage values?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I follow... you're saying the guillie suit has a reference to the CSAT sniper, so if I wear the guillie, I inherit the CSAT sniper's camouflage values?

Yeah, that's right.

 

For example: "I_Sniper_F" soldier has the value "camouflage = 0.6".

The uniform "U_I_GhillieSuit" has "uniformClass = "I_sniper_F".

So if you're wearing the ghillie, your camouflage is 0.6.

 

(Unless I'm terribly mistaken)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 How does this value effect sighting? Dampens knowsAbout? Deflects LOS RayTrace with shield bubble..?   :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I've just recently re-installed the game. I'm a bit disappointed to see after doing some testing that the issue where the AI are able to bug out in middle stance and not fire on enemies remains unaddressed. I have really assumed the main reason why this issue both has not gotten a lot of attention and is not seen very often is because the default ai behavior does not make use of the crouch stance very often, either way I would think it would be an outstanding issue at least in relation to units taking cover and also at least manually scripted crouch stance setting in missions. Depending on bad luck, my Ai modification scripts that use the crouch stance often will induce the bug to the point where sometimes 50% or more of the units bug out, and refuse to fire. Because testing has revealed that this happens to units that were originally in safe mode, the only fix I have come up with is to just not use safe mode, which really doesn't work for visual purposes - base guards and patrols in alert stance, patrols walking with weapons raised, etc. I mean, even though this issue may not come up very often due to the lack of crouch stance usage by the default ai, wouldn't this be considered kind of a potentially major core problem with the ai behavior (rather than being some lacking feature thing, it being an area of broken ai visual threat response).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's right.

 

For example: "I_Sniper_F" soldier has the value "camouflage = 0.6".

The uniform "U_I_GhillieSuit" has "uniformClass = "I_sniper_F".

So if you're wearing the ghillie, your camouflage is 0.6.

 

(Unless I'm terribly mistaken)

 

Thank you for enlighten me on this subject (unless you're terribly mistaken :) ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some weird stuff going on in the house in the second part too... I wonder how much of the unnatural reaction speed is because  they seem to get snippets of target knowledge even through houses?

 

 

This is what bothers me most about the AI, they seem to be able to identify you as hostile, and even engage you through the wall based just on the sound you're making, without ever seeing you.

I did some tests too

 

 

I don't mind AI trying to shoot me through the wall or bush when they see me run behind it, but shooting through the wall just because they heard footsteps or someone firing (not towards them) on the other side...how do they know it's not friendly?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Yep, I too think the AIs' hearing is too good, and the intel they gather from hearing is way way too good.

I haven't started Arma this summer so I don't know if it's changed, but before they heard you running on the other side of a house with what feels like pinpoint accuracy, I don't think they should hear you at all in that situation, yet alone IFF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The AI shouldn't know whether you're an enemy or not just by hearing the footsteps (without a visual confirmation). But once you open fire (or if you already did previously) they'll connect that information.

@gwynbleidd Could you please share that VR mission? Thanks a lot!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AI shouldn't know you are enemy from hearing footsteps correct.But AI shouldn't know that you are enemy just by hearing gunfire.

They should see it.That is why in armies doctrine of PIDs is used - Positively identify with your own eyes before you open up.

 

I'm guessing with connection you mean "sound of gunfire" + "friendly AI down".Even in this case they should identify threat with

their own eyes.They should be unsure of whether friendly is down or not basing it on real life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AI shouldn't know you are enemy from hearing footsteps correct.But AI shouldn't know that you are enemy just by hearing gunfire.

They should see it.That is why in armies doctrine of PIDs is used - Positively identify with your own eyes before you open up.

 

I'm guessing with connection you mean "sound of gunfire" + "friendly AI down".Even in this case they should identify threat with

their own eyes.They should be unsure of whether friendly is down or not basing it on real life.

 

Except if you shoot with foreign faction weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except if you shoot with foreign faction weapons.

 

You still can't tell in split second who it is, and shot them through walls right away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on my tests, the AI will recognize your side from footsteps alone without any line of sight. Not right away, but if you keep making noise after they've become suspicious. And you need to be really close, like <10m away.

 

I also noticed that view blocking objects also block sound, which is pretty cool. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The AI should be able to discern enemy from friendly from weapon sound. I mostly can, and I am not a very good Arma player. I can mostly tell if gunfire in a forest are from my squad, thus the distinct sound from guns would be no problem for a battle honed soldier to identify.

 

And I give you all this:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, think of all the guerrilla scenarios. Can't have situation where you grab an enemy weapon and that affect the AI perception of your side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The AI should be able to discern enemy from friendly from weapon sound. I mostly can, and I am not a very good Arma player. I can mostly tell if gunfire in a forest are from my squad, thus the distinct sound from guns would be no problem for a battle honed soldier to identify.

 

And I give you all this:

 

You mean, you can detect enemies if they use weapons of your side? and you can also detect enemies if they use silent weapons?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's another problem of what the AI should 'know about' though. They can't (or don't) know if they're the only friendly squad on the map and any gunfire is hostile, or if enemy rebels have been using exclusively AK-47s, or even if the crunch of unknown boots nearby should be threatening (no one else is supposed to be in this AO!), etc.

 

That's a pretty tricky situation to solve. You'd have to do something like set "signature" weapons for each faction in the config or mission intel, and then they would go into combat upon hearing this type of gun (assuming it actually is distinctive enough sounding). And even this is a flawed solution that I can already see some problems with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's just a limitation of the way AI behaviour is implemented (I'm not arguing for/against anything here). AI only have varying degrees of combat awareness, other types of information aren't a consideration. So when they hear fire, they know it's hostile because to them, there's no other possibility.

 

The key word is limitation. I don't think there's a whole lot of flexibility here as it concerns a seemingly low level of AI design in Arma. Their behaviour can probably be changed at a higher level to emulate something more sophisticated, but you'll never cover all possibilities that way. Best you can hope for is passable behaviour in the majority of cases.

 

I haven't seen the source code or anything, so I could be totally off here. Just basing this on my experience with design in general.

 

Edit:

I would be curious to know, if an AI has little/no knowledge of friendly units nearby and they fire, will they instantly know it's friendly or will they investigate as if it was unknown? (Do radio items come into play for sharing information between their side?)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the realistic solution is that the AI doesn't blindly fire but as said... 

 

Investigates gun fire while attempting to gain a positional advantage to the known shooter location

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=25441

0025441: AI go through wall on the harbour at 027060 in Stratis

AI on the harbour go through walls.
For example, the harbour at 027060 in Stratis.
It is not about the waypoint. Even I don't set the waypoint, the AI can also go through the walls on the harbour.
What's more, on every construction area, AI always move slowly at danger stance.Why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=25440

0025440: Military office (ID 66220) at 019057 in Stratis has a wall and a door that can't block AI's sight

Military office (ID 66220) at 019057 in Stratis has a wall and a door that can't block AI's sight.

When I move to the door and the wall show as pictures below, the AI outside the building can see me. I don't need to fire or make any noise to attract him.

 In contract, the same building (ID 66234) doesn't have this problem.

Firstly I thought it's an AI detect bug, now I confirm it is a construction module bug. However I can't find the right category, so I still report it as AI bug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@oukej here is the link to the mission: 


 

There is one more mission, that might help you:


 


 

This one was before the video I already posted

 

Didn't post this one before, because I'm not using the same weapon as the enemy. But if you try to play this mission, what happens is, you can clear a room or two, but eventually AI decides they heard enough, and just shoot you through the wall. 

 

Also when they kill you through the wall, they just stop firing, they know you're dead every time, it could use some tweaking too if possible.
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Added Greenfist script to my old test mission and ran it a few times on 1.50 and the result is pretty much the same as before :huh:

 

If you kill one of AI in a group with 1-2 shots the squad lead turns around and spot you instantly and they open fire on your location. This despite you are completely hidden and wearing ghillie suit (range is ~200 m). Using the silencer the result is much more convincing and the AI acts confused and are not able to instantly spot and pinpoint you.

 

Took a few screenshots....

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpd50jbvyukgu2f/A3T_01.png

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ofnpnssr8o77mu/A3T_02.png

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgetoxxq01j4c52/A3T_03.png

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6hsjxy4hafoepo8/A3T_04.png

 

I will upload the updated mission tomorrow when I'm back home for others to test, meanwhile you can test  the old mission I linked to above since it's the same but without Greenfists script. If you do please share the result...

 

/KC
 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mean, you can detect enemies if they use weapons of your side? and you can also detect enemies if they use silent weapons?

You know perfectly well what I mean. It is not far fetched for the AI to assume side from gunshots, as a general rule, since they should know loadouts for their side. In special cases with mixed weapons a general rule will not apply, of course. But it is not an unreasonable thing to code

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×